0
Andy_Copland

First BASE jump

Recommended Posts

Quote

Quote

I've banned you for 24 hours.



Fuck's sake...I hate waiting two days for an answer to a simple question. [:/]

Ah well...at least it's not a whole month then aye.




PM's are still available. When you are banned, it's only from the one forum.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

There was an unforeseen equipment problem. You’ve never had one?



I think that describing that as "an unforeseen equipment problem," is going a long way to understate it.

I've never heard of a similar case. Have you? Because I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear about that, if you have.

All of my best guesses as to what caused that little "unforeseen equipment problem" point toward either gross user error or negligent gear maintenance. Either of those things indicate an extremely substandard teaching/learning environment.

It sounds like you must be speaking from substantial experience with both BASE jumping and the instruction thereof. Can you please share your experience with us?
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Andrew is probably a very good person to ask that question of, because he had a very similar situation less than a year ago.


You have a good memory Tom ;-)

Quote

I don't know what he said in his PM, bu I bet you can learn some things from his experience that will help you as you move forward.


Because I think it might be constructive to repeat it, here is the PM I sent:


Quote

before this thread turned into a giant flame-fest, I replied because I was genuinely concerned with your post.

I have 30-ish base jumps... I had to work hard to get those.

embrace your locals, they know what they are talking about. If you dis-agree with them, ask them to explain their reasoning better, invite them over for a beer and a chat. ground crew for them and debate the topics then. they WILL have good reasons for anything they do.

If they have a personal problem with you, deal with it. NOT on dorkzone.

When did you meet potato head? how long did you know him before he took you out? were you aware of his reputation? (he and the last person he PCA'd went to jail that night) if so, why did you choose to jump with him? if not, why didn't you? are you aware of the dangers of AM towers? do you know what gear you jumped? canopy type? container type? vented? multi? what was your wing loading under it? did it ever cross your mind why he wasn't jumping? do you realize how serious a torn bridle is?

just a couple questions that should be running through your head right now... and trust me, I could come up with another twenty....




as I tried to make clear, I'm not an expert... no where near it... but those are the questions I would be thinking about in his situation. and to be (sadly) honest, I wasn't impressed with his reply...

To jump a skydiving container in this day and age, to me, is sad :-(


but at least he's made a smart decision, hopefully he chooses to abide by the words he said to me:

Quote

I aint jumping anymore until i get proper mentoring, thats that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As someone who got into BASE the "wrong way" as well. I had a VERY rewarding and lucky first jump, and then shattered my ankle in 6 places on my second:o. I was jumping skydiving gear on a 400' tower and had 46 skydives and was just soooo damned hard up to get into the sport. The difference was, I had no mentors available in my part of Texas and internet guidance was not in existence yet. Take advantage of the cool folks you got in the U.K. and try not to burn any bridges. It's a really small community worldwide and if you wanna get invited to the cool shit, you might wanna settle down a little and start buying ALOT of beer for people. Lot's of beer and an attitude change can fix anything. Trust me.

And congrats on not killing yourself right out the starting gate.
"It takes a big man to cry, it takes an even bigger man to make that big man cry"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sometimes, in the morning, I'm still in bed even though I have to pee really bad. I want to go to the toilet because it's starting to hurt, but it's nice and warm under the blankets and I think to myself: "I will not let my life be dictated by my bladder!"

Anybody else ever have that problem? I hate it. I wonder if I should just pee in bed instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote



Im all packed ready for sunset load, if you can think of a better way i should spend my time id like to hear it.



stop begging for attention get off the internet, go outside and learn something.


Sorry but i have to step in here. From what i have seen of Andy, he is one of the best canopy pilots i have ever seen in 14 years of jumping for his level of jumps. he researched it, and followed through with it. Was is the problem here. I have many friends in the base and i was Friends with Jason Rooney who taught me some stuff over in Australia. Why disrespect andy for making a choice to persue BASE. That is the problem with living in the UK. It is full of really narrow minded people that think they are the shit. Andy has had training from people over here with far more base jumps than yourself, and i dont mean potatoe head. If you want to flame someone then fine but find out all the facts before you do so.

You see, over here in the states, some people do not judge you based on who's ass you kiss.
i am sure andy has no desire to jump with you either. he has much better coaches over here.
Congrats on your 1st base andy.
http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If you want to flame someone then fine but find out all the facts before you do so.



If I remember correctly it was Andy who started the thread. Among other things, he mentioned that he did his first jump from an antenna without an FJC, he said that "his bridle ripped clean off", he thanked Potato Head (who has a known reputation), and he chose the word "sick" to describe his first jump.

All those indicate a strong desire to be flamed. For somebody with 3729 posts on these forums, that should be blatantly obvious.

That doesn't necessarily justify the flames, but right or wrong is not the issue here. If you travel to a war zone you may end up getting shot. Are you gonna complain you didn't deserve the bullet, or realize you may have been at the wrong place at the wrong time?

If you can't stand the heat, get away from the fire. If you need a pat on the shoulder, post the video on YouTube.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Why disrespect andy for making a choice to persue BASE.



I don't see that at all.

I see people strongly disagreeing with Andy's choice of how to pursue BASE, specifically his ignoring their advice, his selection of first jump instructor, his selection of first jump object, and his selection of first jump gear.

That's very different from disrespecting a choice to pursue BASE jumping.


Quote

...the UK. It is full of really narrow minded people...



Perhaps, rather, it's got some local BASE jumpers who want to help keep Andy from becoming a statistic.

Time and again I see people "befriending" young jumpers who want to take up BASE, and "helping" them by putting them into dangerous situations that they are clearly unprepared for. I'd suggest to you that these are not real "friends," nor are they actually "helping" anyone, least of all the new jumper.

In this light, perhaps we ought to consider the fact that those who are really helping are those trying to slow you down and put you on a safer path, if a somewhat slower one.



Quote

Andy has had training from people over here with far more base jumps than yourself.



If those people mind being named here, perhaps you can PM their names and contact info to the concerned locals, so that they can contact them and get some objective reports on Andy's progress?



Quote

i was Friends with Jason Rooney...



Hmmm. Perhaps that's not as high a recommendation as you might think. I never knew him, but the stories I've heard definitely qualify as "mixed" at the very least.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
don't get me wrong, i personally advised andy against jumping. I did not agree with who or where he is jumping. The fact is, in years to come i am sure he will look back and think, damn what a fucking idiot i was doing that.
But do you think it helps any by calling him a cunt on here? The guy is very talented when it comes to canopy cantrol.
How many of you base guys/girls can look back and go wow i did everything perfect getting int o base jumping. Andy did start the thread because he was proud of his first base jump and he wanted the base community to maybe help and maybe give him some advise. he is still young and eager. Give the guy a break. Now if he comes on here saying where he jumped with the location then flame away.
http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I've banned you for 24 hours.





what?! at least he didnt mention insects. a threat of violence and 24 hrs. makes no sense tom.



I'm happy to discuss it more via PM. The short version is that I think that Andy's participation in this thread can still be useful to him, and generally to all of us.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

How many of you base guys/girls can look back and go wow i did everything perfect getting int o base jumping.



How many of them had the advice and guidance that Andy had?
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yes some of your replies make sense but just one question. What qualifies someone as a base candidate? I mean really. Because i hang out and know probably about 17 base jumpers which really isnt that many. Some have basee numbers less than the 300 mark. I come across people who have been instructed and have less jumps than andy yet about 35+base jumps. From what i have gathered is andy has tried to pursue base through quite a few people yet has been turned down for whatever reasons. Yet other people i know have been trained by highly respected base jumpers in the community with far less jumps than andy.
Don't get me wqrong, i know nothinbg of potatos reputation or skill level when it comes to base so please forgive me. Is it thge training he recieved that was sketchy or the fact he did a base jump with his amount of jumps
http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

yes some of your replies make sense but just one question. What qualifies someone as a base candidate?



I don't think there's a universal answer to that, but some of the things I look for are:

(a) Judgment and restraint: knowing "when to say when" is a critical survival skill in BASE. Someone who rushes into BASE itself is generally more likely to be injured while BASE jumping, in my opinion.

(b) Adequate preparation: Honestly, I'd like to see students with upwards of 1000 skydives, and a good helping of CRW and Accuracy experience. Realistically, we're looking at typical FJC's requiring between 100 and 250 skydives, with only a very few discussing specifics of jump types.

(c) Good mentorship: Someone who's taken the time to establish contact with qualified jumpers near their home, who have the judgment and experience to mentor a new jumper.

(d) Contact with local jumpers: Someone who understands the way the BASE community fits together, and has therefore taken the time to make contact with their local jumpers, ask advice, and form relationships which they can draw on as they progress.

There are other things, too, but those are some big ones.



Quote

From what i have gathered is andy has tried to pursue base through quite a few people yet has been turned down for whatever reasons.



Hmmm. If you count several local jumpers making the time to answer questions, give guidance, and sit down for a chat about starting BASE, risks, and preparation as being "turned down", then perhaps. Personally, that sounds like an excellent start to a BASE career--very different from being "turned down."



Quote

Is it thge training he recieved that was sketchy or the fact he did a base jump with his amount of jumps



What was sketchy about it?

(a) Choice of object (low, guyed tower)
(b) Choice of gear (converted skydiving canopy, converted skydiving rig)
(c) Something (we're still not clear what) wrong with the PCA technique
(d) Choice of Instructor (a guy who was recently busted taking a first timer off a building)


On this forum, at least, we have no idea what training he received. Did he do any exit practice? Did he learn to pack? Was their a discusison of PCA technique and potential problems? What training was given for avoiding object strike in the event of an offheading into the (quite close) guy wires? Was there a discussion of rescue and getaway plans? I have no idea--do you?


Was doing the jump at his level of skydiving experience a bad choice? Perhaps. It's really hard to say without some in depth feedback about what he's been doing for the past month. 66 jumps. Ok, now what kind of jumps? Were they on a large 7 cell? Were they freefly jumps done on a ZP 9 cell? Were they BASE specific canopy drill jumps done on a BASE canopy with good coaching? Without more information, I don't think anyone can say.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

yes some of your replies make sense but just one question. What qualifies someone as a base candidate?


everyone must answer that on their own.

the same as with whom you choose to jump.

personally, I choose to jump with people I trust. people who make sound judgements. people I'd happily take care of in case of injury (even if that means getting busted and possibly ending my career). people who will look after me.

with the correct attitude and strong judgement, the other skills can be learned.

Andy seems to be treating the BASE community like a coven of vampires from an Anne Rice novel. he wanted to be bitten so he could join the coven. none back home would oblige, so he travellled to the States. now that he has been bitten, he expects we must accept him --- he is now one of us. little does he realize I won't jump with just anybody, and I'm sure some will not jump with me.

Andy's judgement and risk assessment skills appear flawed. his post that started this thread had a serious "in your face" attitude toward those that tried to slow him down. it really didn't read like he welcomed advice.

hopefully, I'm wrong. he might be a great guy, eager to listen. people can be different face to face.

earlier someone posted "Live and Learn." I agree wholeheartedly. but from Andy's posts, I can only tell that he lived...
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Was doing the jump at his level of skydiving experience a bad choice? Perhaps. It's really hard to say without some in depth feedback about what he's been doing for the past month. 66 jumps. Ok, now what kind of jumps? Were they on a large 7 cell? Were they freefly jumps done on a ZP 9 cell? Were they BASE specific canopy drill jumps done on a BASE canopy with good coaching? Without more information, I don't think anyone can say.



Tom,
{Good thread...sorry if this is slightly off topic}
Is there an online guide to suggested BASE specific canopy drill jumps? I'm thinking of taking an FJC in Twin Falls in the fall and would like to do all the canopy prep I can. I fly a big 7 cell (Tri220). Thanks.
- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

I think that you need to meet him before you make the kinds of judgements that you wrote here... Like most, his on-line and off-line attitides are not the same and once he's been slagged off he'll kick back (and why not?).

Skinny has seen him jump more recently than any of us and by his numbers he's a lot more current than some of us back home. He'll learn and fast.

As usual, Tom's level headed appraoch is the best part of this thread and if Andy has any sense at all he'll take more from them than the others - Did you read that Andy!!!

Give him a chance... he's not always a Fenland c*nt:P


Regards,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

...The bridle wrapping around the tower and ripping off is most certainly not an "unforeseen" problem.



See what I mean? Where did you get that? You are jumping to conclusions and flaming the guy based on false info.

Well, I could expect better than that from such a supposedly tight-knit community as B.A.S.E jumpers.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

i done something that i know wasnt an ideal way to start BASE. But you know what? Im happy with it.



I am sure that the people who love you wouldn't mind if other alternative outcomes arose as a result of the decision you were happy with.

As long as you are happy, . . . . . . happy...

Keep surviving!!
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


I think that you need to meet him before you make the kinds of judgements that you wrote here... Like most, his on-line and off-line attitides are not the same and once he's been slagged off he'll kick back (and why not?).


I do not think you and I have met, so you do not know me, and I do not know you.

I'm sure you have an impression of me, somewhere between a guru and a twat. (hopefully, close to neither extreme...)

you are correct that we all need to give people a chance to be different in person. Andy could well have been so energized and excited from his first jump that his emotion came through on his posts. fair enough. I hope that is the case.

I also know non-jumpers and BASE wannabes read these forums. just saying "great job" to anyone who survives a BASE jump is wrong. it can encourage copycat behavior. (note other threads have been critical of Luigi, Felix, Jeb, etc.) do you think it wise to encourage the mentorship Potatohead provides? (I've never met him either...)

heck, there is a thread somewhere that attacks me... so be it.

I try to like every actual BASE jumper I meet. I figure I can probably learn something from most of them. (it's one of the great things about BD!)

and yes, I've done stupid things. you probably do not know about them as I prefer to "keep BASE personal, not public."
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0