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base60

old/new SL technique.

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Made a jump from 150 feet the other night near my house. As a side point that ushered in my 27th year in BASE!

Some locals are interested in the object but when they ran the pin closed sl method by me I wasn't too impressed. That set up looks like shit. I jump velcro although I know all systems work fine. But velcro is easier to SL and I really like low jumps. Here is a new old method for static lining pins.

Take off the pilot and bridle, pins and all. Break tie a static line right onto the canopy/multi. Take two cut down rubber bands like the one used on a tailgate. Larks head one to each of the closing loops. Pull the bands up through the grommets and secure them with a pinch of the SL. Tie of the SL to the strong point. Jump.

The break cord can't get loaded until the pack is open and you can't get hung up because the bands will just break. Simple. This is how we used to SL skydiving gear in the 80's. But hell if pins are back we might as well dust off this technique.

Cheers. Jakey.
ps. Black is back!

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So, if for some reason the breakcord broke before pulling the canopy to linestretch, like during the shock load when overcoming the canopy and line's inertia in the container, the only thing that would continue bringing the canopy to linestretch would be the drag it creates on its own?
A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

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Pull the bands up through the grommets and secure them with a pinch of the SL.



I don't get this part. How do you secure them?

If the canopies is packed do you have one really long piece of break cord from the attachment point to the object? If so couldn't the break cord separate prematurely still and keep the pack closed?

I'm obviously missing something.

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Pull the bands up through the grommets and secure them with a pinch of the SL.



I don't get this part. How do you secure them?

If the canopies is packed do you have one really long piece of break cord from the attachment point to the object? If so couldn't the break cord separate prematurely still and keep the pack closed?

I'm obviously missing something.



Static line and break cord are two different things. The static line is a piece of cord that does not break, which is used in the place of a bridle in this setup.

You close the container by using tailgate rubber bands in the place you would normally have closing loops, and you double the static line (which is where you'd normally expect a bridle) over, tucking a fold of it through the rubber bands (which are where you'd normally expect the closing loops). Basically, the loop of static line acts as a pin replacement. When it's extracted from the rubber band (analagous to pulling the pin) the container opens.

The break cord is entirely inside the container (picture it as attaching the bridle to the canopy), so it takes no load until the container is open (basically rendering a total impossible). This part of the system would also work with a velcro rig (using the regular bridle and shrivel flap, but putting the break cord between the shrivel flap and the canopy), using the bridle as the static line (non breaking) attachment. Todd S. showed me that setup several years ago (I believe he was using it out at the little wall). From the sequence of personal interactions, I wonder if perhaps he learned it from Jakey in the first place.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Great idea with rubber bands (solves the concern of premature cord breaking if pin is not extracted within 2 millisecond time frame). How about just use rubber bands as closing loops as you describe and leave the rest as usual?
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Hi Jakey,

I think you've hit upon it . . .

Globally what you're describing was called a "California static line" and there were several variations of it. I remember using it (skydiving) in the 70s and with the earliest ones the static line wasn't connected to any part of the canopy. It just served to hold the container closed (taking the place of the ripcord pins) and the container had a spring loaded pilot chute inside. Some of these actually had pins attached to the static line, but that required a "guide ring" in case an unstable jumper loaded things up from the wrong direction and started bending pins.

From that it went to removing the pins altogether and just "tying" the static line off to the cones on the container. But again the static line wasn't "assisting" the deployment other than just allowing the container to open. The problem was this method didn't prevent pilot chute hesitations or first time jumpers from grabbing (or becoming entangled) with the deploying pilot chute.

So then they started attaching the bitter end of the static line to the pilot chute either with Velcro or breakable thread and calling it "static line assist". Finally, they removed the pilot chute altogether and it all morphed into the direct bag method still used today.

I'm looking at what you described and trying to figure a way it wouldn't work and I can't find one (other than jumper induced mis-rigs).

The coolest part is when someone asks how you jumped a particular object you could now say you, "jakey-lined" it . . .

Good to hear from you!

NickD :)BASE 194

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This part of the system would also work with a velcro rig (using the regular bridle and shrivel flap, but putting the break cord between the shrivel flap and the canopy), using the bridle as the static line (non breaking) attachment. Todd S. showed me that setup several years ago (I believe he was using it out at the little wall). From the sequence of personal interactions, I wonder if perhaps he learned it from Jakey in the first place.



Bill S showed me the same thing (break-cording the canopy to shrivel flap attachment). Since BASE 60 was Bill's mentor, your train of thought is probably correct.

This method works great on our local rock you speak of...because its an easy hike back to the exit point to retrieve your shrivel flap and the site is quasi legal. But I would prefer not to leave my shrivel flaps on the side of a B that my canopy just woke up the security guards.

I personally am interested in the deletion of the PC. Several others from this same literal line of BASE education were the first to suggest I ditch it...

KUrt
Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

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personaly, i think its horrible idea. like, really horrible.

moab's only fatality written all over it.

i still dont see whats wrong with a dbag. its the same thing. better heading performance, faster opening speed, more reliable, no bridal at all...

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personaly, i think its horrible idea. like, really horrible.

moab's only fatality written all over it.

i still dont see whats wrong with a dbag. its the same thing. better heading performance, faster opening speed, more reliable, no bridal at all...



That's what I'm thinking. The most likely time perfectly working breakcord will break prematurely is when the shock load occurs just as it starts pulling the canopy and lines out of the container - when it has to overcome the downward momentum of the canopy/lines and completely stop the canopy. Past this point, all the breakcord is doing is holding the canopy/remaining lines in a suspended manner, thus the force on the breakcord is equal to the weight of the canopy and remaining lines. During this time, the chance of premature breakage of perfectly working breakcord is 0. When you add in the fact that nothing is ever perfectly working, this scares me a bit more.

In this situation, premature breakage just as the static line is loaded will kill the jumper, as the container is open but there is basically no canopy out. With no backup PC to pull it out, or enough canopy exposed to the airstream to drag the rest out/prematurely inflate, not much is going to happen.
A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

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My first jump at New River in 82 was using a piglet skydiving container with 2 rubber bands as loops where I just pinched the bridal into both loops. Only difference is it was freefall so I had a pilot chute and it was just as simple.
Rick H
joyhgc1@aol.com

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you do realice that by pin rigs you can freefall 150ft right? would you do so on a velcro?
I wouldnt.. I can adjust the pullforce required to pop my pins,combined whith spectraloops ill pay the next beer if i cant get my canopy out faster than you using bridel...

I like your tecniqe for ultra low stuff,but 150ft aint ultra low SL in my world..

Do a search on "carry on SL" by the weiv of it i think you can use it on your setup and leave no trace:P

No one should tell you to jump pin or not,but some info might be handy;)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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With Velcro it is much harder to pack a total malfunction, but the pull force is less consistent / less accurately adjustable than with pins.

I like my pins and there consistence for low stuff, freefall and static line.

Ref: Jakey’s SL set up.
I have tied my break cord between bridle and canopy and like the set up.
The rubber bands I feel are a little overkill with modern curved pins set with zero tension.
I see where you are coming from with no hang-up potential built feel the chances of this are small enough not for me to worry about (most of the time)

Questions:

Has one ever had / seen / heard of a hung-up SL in BASE?
What went wrong?

Could we use closing loops made of break cord?

Anyone know the braking strain of spectra (Cyprus loop)

They must make the same material in thinner cord?

Greeny

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Questions:

Has one ever had / seen / heard of a hung-up SL in BASE?
What went wrong?

Could we use closing loops made of break cord?

Anyone know the braking strain of spectra (Cyprus loop)

They must make the same material in thinner cord?

Greeny


read this whole thread. there are cases of SL failure, and i remember a story posted here of a bridal connection point being torn off from a 'hung' SL- tearing the parachute.

i bet closing loop material holds about 400lbs. in a closing loop way, i bet 800lbs. paragear does not specify.

and yes, i have made 'soft links' with 50 lb spectra for a paraglider to shave even more weight. google 'into the wind' my old work in boulder co, they carry anything from 30lb spectra to 300lb spectra as kite line, (high quality spectra)

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Calvin,

What I was thinking was something with very low breaking strain, but with more the propities of closing loops (10lbs spectra maybe)

to do the job of the rubber bands but behave more like closing loop unless you need it to break.

greeny

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What I was thinking was something with very low breaking strain, but with more the propities of closing loops (10lbs spectra maybe)



Tom Manship fooled around with using e-thread for closing loops for a while.

I wonder if it increases the chance you can snag a very small nick in the pin and actually increase the momentary (until it breaks) hangup potential if you are using very thin thread.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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[Take off the pilot and bridle, pins and all. Break tie a static line right onto the canopy/multi. Take two cut down rubber bands like the one used on a tailgate. Larks head one to each of the closing loops. Pull the bands up through the grommets and secure them with a pinch of the SL. Tie of the SL to the strong point. Jump.]

I was just thinking that rather than using rubber bands on the closing loops and the pins through the bands, I would prefer to use a closing loop type material but with the breaking strain of a rubber bands.

Rubber bands just sound like a lot of friction
Could we do the same job with low braking strain spectra or the like?

Just thinking though ideas:

Greeny

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[Greeny


read this whole thread. there are cases of SL failure, and i remember a story posted here of a bridal connection point being torn off from a 'hung' SL- tearing the parachute. ]



Calvin,

2 points:

1st) I did read the whole thread you misunderstood my question.

Has any one ever seen a SL hang up leaving the jumper suspended from the object?

Suspended from the bridle with the rigg still closed
Or
Suspended at line stretch?

I have seen it on a military aircraft SL but never have heard of it on a BASE jump.

My thinking: Jakey was talking about rubber bands as closing loops so they would break rather than hang you up.

2nd)

Quote:

[i still dont see whats wrong with a dbag. its the same thing. better heading performance, faster opening speed, more reliable, no bridal at all...}

D-Bags work great if you have a friend at the top and your D-Bag is a pre planned jump. I know you can D-Bag in places with no SL anchor (but you can fashion anchors in most any place with a little imagination)

But reference your comment:

I will come out and SL anything you D-Bag (as long as I can get an anchor)

I have never had an off heading on an SL and I have never seen one. I know you can do it, but every time I have heard of it, it has been rigging error (miss routed bridle ect.)

I have SL’ed 90ft on to concrete (trust me my SL opens fast). If you will D-Bag it I will SL it!

A D-Bag is only as reliable as the guy who packed it / held it
A SL is only as reliable as the guy who Packed it and set it up

Properly set up and routed I have zero issues with reliability on a SL jump

Bridle length on a SL can be anything:

I have a E where we double it to clear the ledge
I have also tied my break cord straight to the shrivel flap of my Perigee 2 (no bridle)
And most combinations in between (PC or no PC)

My point:

BASE Techniques are just a tool box:
Learn to be proficient with as many options as possible
Don’t get fixed / blinkered into just one technique
It is just about taking the best tool and fitting it to the job (jump) in hand

Greeny

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i had hung up whith my carry on sl,thats why i make a "cut away loop on it so in case it snags anything a 3.th loop on my setup will breal leaving the carry on sl up there but still give me a canopy:)just read your last post no i never heard about such a hang up i think more like ripped centercell etc etc if you use spectraloops i do belive your pins will pop i see no chance that you could stay up there,if the gear hang up you might dammeged it..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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after 20' (you said you double the SL length to clear a ledge) the 'snatch force' would be pretty strong. just a thought.

sorry i misunderstood you question. my bad there. but i think we established in this or another thread already that i am trying to govern the BASE jumper body and push my rules on them. :P

toolbox. :D:D:D

good point though. i agree with you there.
but my jumping style, there are a 5 tools. ;36",42",46",(insert cool flip here), and tracking. those are my tools.

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