Static lines and PC's...

[HydroGuy 0]

Thinking about ditching the security blanket (pilot chute) for future static line jumps. I already have shorter bridles, or tie off down the bridle away from the pc attachment point, to lessen the snatch forces on the break cord.

Has anyone actually had a PC save them from a premature break cord failure? If so, are you aware if the break cord failure was due to a rigging error? Or was the break cord tied directly off to a sharp object? Or did the system truely fail?

I seem to hear more about people losing PC's and bridles and center cells from object entanglement. I've heard several stories of off headings and object strikes due to PC/bridle entanglements.

Input welcome...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[incode 0]

I have seen this happen a few times but not with break cord, only with tape. Someone tapes off on either a damp rail or tapes incorrectly and the tape breaks before extraction, which causes the jumper to freefall to a much lower alitude. So yes the PC is what saved them.

[n_pertuset 0]

Personally, I think it's a bad idea. I wouldn't do it.
I've seen premature breakages a couple times - they do happen. And I've seen people being dropped on PCA's - scary at times.

Simple mistakes can be made. I had a friend have her break cord prematurely break a few weeks ago from a weak point in the static line (human error - there was a small slit on it from a hook knife, which is where it broke). Without the PC, well... there'd be 1 more added to the fatality list. Wet break cord, old break cord, or some that hasn't been stored properly might decrease the quality of it. (might not happen often, but doesn't seem worth the risk to me).

One thing i've done for lower jumps is to tie a knot closer to me and tie off there, then tie off the PC as well. It's backed up, and the pc isn't flying around (and there's not 9' of bridle flying in the wind either, cause your shortlined S/L to the object)

I wouldn't call it so much a security blanket, but more so a backup.

I'm curious why you would want to remove your PC? I've seen PC's rip on objects - but i'd rather lose a PC than be dropped!!

Nathan

[worldsocold 0]

hydroguy!!! when R U gonna learn???

OH and your questioning me on loadin' a 244??? I'M only 185ish' (without gear)! come on man. i'd rather jump a 222 dagger in a tight landing area than jump without a PC!!

why the hell R U gonna jump with out PC on? your crazy!!!
JUST KIDDIN'. WELL ACTUALLY I MEANT IT, BUT IN A FUNNY KINDA SARCASTIC WAY- no i'm not yellin' i just type big cuz i got a small PENIS!


IF you can. talk 2 rob c. (the pilot-annie h's. husband) it happened to him at the rubi. rock. he tied 2 knots super tight and they failed?

Todd S. told me-- i forgot the number he used--- but he said when they were at the super bowl deal they did that so many out of so many jumps with breakcord and didn't work (i don't know how many--but ask him or jimmy p. or marta e.)

i know i was talkin' to a welsh person that you know and he told me he recently used a static set up without a PC and said the reason he didn't have THE PC on didn't work anyways so next time he'd probably use a pc for that thing he did ( but again ask him). his exact words for it was " it's all a NUMBERS GAME AT THAT POINT".

get in your car and drive AND then get out and hike!!! stop this crazy breakcord stuff!! you could DIE. YOU need 2 be more conservative like me!! i'm a really safe dude and make really good decisions................

BE SAFE DUDE. and remember downsizing is back in style!

NPS SUX ASS

[Calvin19 0]

i would say its bad idea as well...

its not like we are swooping. or are you?

[mysty429 0]

Two breakcords and 2 of those parachute fellows from the liquor store tied to the place where the PC should be works fine.

Now I just need to find a 300 something object on the top of a big rocky hill with a street below and enough elevation to gaurantee me a 2 minute canopy ride.

-Taylor
"Can't plan fantastic!!!!!"

[HydroGuy 0]

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IF you can. talk 2 rob c. (the pilot-annie h's. husband) it happened to him at the rubi. rock. he tied 2 knots super tight and they failed?

I'd like to talk to Rob...I'm wondering if he was tied off at the PC attachment point for a 9' bridle length? or if he went down the bridle, for an effective 7' or 5' foot bridle length?

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Todd S. told me-- i forgot the number he used--- but he said when they were at the super bowl deal they did that so many out of so many jumps with breakcord and didn't work (i don't know how many--but ask him or jimmy p. or marta e.)

From what I remember Todd telling me, these failures were on 9' bridles. So Todd started tieing off 2' or greater away from the PC attachment point, in essence making it a 7' or shorter bridle. No more failures. I always tie off as close to my pins as possible without risking my canopy hitting the object.

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his exact words for it was " it's all a NUMBERS GAME AT THAT POINT".

I know about the 110' over concrete...I feel in that instance especially a PC might make something "survivable" that maybe shouldn't be survived...

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get in your car and drive AND then get out and hike!!! stop this crazy breakcord stuff!! you could DIE. YOU need 2 be more conservative like me!! i'm a really safe dude and make really good decisions................

Your irony is killing me It's all about balance. Some stowed, some handheld and some basement shit...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[HydroGuy 0]

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I had a friend have her break cord prematurely break a few weeks ago from a weak point in the static line (human error - there was a small slit on it from a hook knife, which is where it broke). Without the PC, well... there'd be 1 more added to the fatality list.

Did she know about this slit prior to the jump yet still jump the system? Did she have a second looser loop of breakcord? Was the container opened or closed when the break cord failed? How high was exit point to impact? Not trying to grill you, I just really want to know all the factors.

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I'm curious why you would want to remove your PC? I've seen PC's rip on objects - but i'd rather lose a PC than be dropped

The way I exit on SL jumps is intended to minimize pendulum effects upon opening...the trade off is less object separation. A hanging up PC could cause a serious off heading with minimal object separation, essentially causing an unavoidable object strike... At least, that is my train of though at the moment...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[worldsocold 0]

quote:

I know about the 110' over concrete...I feel in that instance especially a PC might make something "survivable" that maybe shouldn't be survived...
-------------------------------------------------------

actually look at mysty429s' post. that's what i was talkin' bout'. weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. now that's what breakcord was made 4!!


later

NPS SUX ASS

[tr027 0]

my train of thought is the pros of having a PC on outweigh the cons..

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Calvin19 0]

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my train of thought is the pros of having a PC on outweigh the cons..

agreed. I think there could be something like a peice of cutaway cable connected through the entire packjob to the harness... and the cable be about 1 meter shorter than the lines of the canopy, then have the SL connected with a 3-ring, with a 1000kg breaking strength.

the idea being that the cutaway WILL NOT break until the canopy is almost at line stretch, and even after that have a peice of break cord to carry it though line stretch.

horrible idea? yeah, probably. nevermind.

[n_pertuset 0]

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agreed. I think there could be something like a peice of cutaway cable connected through the entire packjob to the harness... and the cable be about 1 meter shorter than the lines of the canopy, then have the SL connected with a 3-ring, with a 1000kg breaking strength.

the idea being that the cutaway WILL NOT break until the canopy is almost at line stretch, and even after that have a peice of break cord to carry it though line stretch.

horrible idea? yeah, probably. nevermind.

or you could just tie off a static line and jump. *sighs*
.. kids these days ..

Nathan

[Calvin19 0]

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Thinking about ditching the security blanket (pilot chute) for future static line jumps. I already have shorter bridles, or tie off down the bridle away from the pc attachment point, to lessen the snatch forces on the break cord.

Has anyone actually had a PC save them from a premature break cord failure? If so, are you aware if the break cord failure was due to a rigging error? Or was the break cord tied directly off to a sharp object? Or did the system truely fail?

I seem to hear more about people losing PC's and bridles and center cells from object entanglement. I've heard several stories of off headings and object strikes due to PC/bridle entanglements.

Input welcome...

actualy, do a Dbag. it works faster. and its more reliable, better perfomance, etc.

[gus 1]

I have seen a good friend saved by his pc on a 160 ft static line jump-gone-bad. No question, he would be dead without it. I've seen several pc's damaged from doing static lines, one of which was completely destroyed but it's still worth it in my mind. Most of the jumps where damage occurred it was quite predictable if we'd actually thought about it, and easy enough to lessen the chances.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[meekerboy 0]

Jumping without a PC is not a wise idea. Yes you may trash the odd PC if you do enough jumps, however it could save your life. To say that if you a do a jump which is lower than freefall heights means you don't need a PC is wrong. You might sustain an injury even a bad one, however that PC may just extract enough of parachute for you to survive the jump.

[TomAiello 25]

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I've seen several pc's damaged from doing static lines

I actually have a 48 that has a tear in the mesh on the bottom from catching on the object during a static line. I don't use it for freefall, but I keep it around for static lines.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pBASEtobe 0]

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I actually have a 48 that has a tear in the mesh on the bottom from catching on the object during a static line. I don't use it for freefall, but I keep it around for static lines.

Part of me feels that makes perfect sense (why keep destroying perfectly good PC's) and another part of me feels that's not a very good idea.

Wouldn't you want the PC to be in prestine condition if your static line broke prematurely? I'm just thinking that a torn PC might not work as well as one in good condition.

Is it just one of those trade-off's of cost/chance it'll happen/will the damaged PC really work that much less?

[TomAiello 25]

I actually don't think the tear will have much impact on the PC's inflation. It's about an inch and a half across, and is in the mesh between the reinforcing tapes on the bottom skin. I've played around with the PC a bit, and can't really see anything that the tear does when the PC is inflated, aside from perhaps making it more likely that other parts of the PC will wear out sooner.

You can check out the PC the next time you're up here, and let me know what you think.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[katzurki 0]

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I actually have a 48 that has a tear in the mesh on the bottom from catching on the object during a static line. I don't use it for freefall, but I keep it around for static lines.

And soon enough you are getting another, pink one for more static lines!

[hookitt 0]

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Has anyone actually had a PC save them from a premature break cord failure?

Yes. Not me, I have done very few S/L jumps. I don't know exactly how it was tied. I just know it broke just after container opened and the canopy had just begun being lifted out.

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I seem to hear more about people losing PC's and bridles and center cells from object entanglement. I've heard several stories of off headings and object strikes due to PC/bridle entanglements.

Rig smart. That's about all I can say.

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Input welcome...

Well, that's good

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[HydroGuy 0]

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Well, that's good

Thanks Buddy

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[Faber 0]

i saw a pc rescue once(video) of a norwegian guy.

what will your bennefit be from removing your pc?
if your worryed about your pc,then you either use a really expencive one or your life aint much worth

As i said in the pm its al about pros and cons...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[greeny 0]

PC off Static Line Jumps

Maybe this thread was started because I have talked to Hydoguy recently about removing my PC for curtain jumps and have all SL’ed so jumped recently without one.

Firstly let me start by saying my PC (usually my 48zp) goes on about 90% of my SL jumps. It goes on every jump unless I believe it will cause me more problems then it will solves.

I fully understand all the arguments for leaving a PC on and trashing PC’s (I also have an old, repaired 48 kept for SL only) is acceptable to me if it is not going to course me an additional problem.

I have had an Electrical Tape SL break early. I got a 3sec canopy ride from 240ft. I had a 46ZP PC on and was very thankful for it. I changed to break cord after that jump.

I have also very recently had an unexplained low opening on a 173ft E SL. I again had a large PC (48zp) on. The friend at the top said it looked from the top like it went right, but to me it felt like I freefell it and I only got a 4sec canopy ride (less than when I freefall). Again maybe my PC saved my life. I was using 2 pieces of break cord.

I do not do many none PC SL’s but the jumps where I have removed my PC are where the need for forward speed / flight performance / glide ratio of my canopy out ways the risk of jumping with no PC. You all know from skydiving the difference a collapsible PC makes to your glide. I am working on that for BASE but do not have a reliable system I like yet.

Examples of PC off SL jumps:

150ft B, a construction site with nasty stuff under the exit point and a spiky fence that NEEDS it be cleared. I didn’t believe I could clear the fence with a large PC on and not clearing it was unacceptable. I jumped it with no PC, I flared and lifted my feet to clear the fence. Fun Jump!

Small E, with a long rocky hillside to out fly. I didn’t believe I would clear the whole talus with a PC on. I have now out flown it with no PC, so next time I will SL it with my 36 f111 and if that works I will jump it with my next size up and so on. I would like my PC on but not out flying it would put you into big rocks and power wires.

I am paranoid when I jump SL with no PC, but in certain circumstances it makes a jump do-able where refusing to jump without a PC would mean not jumping. The good thing about BASE is it is a free sport and we all jump as we wish, to the level we wish. You might not all like it and I RECOMMEND IT TO NO-ONE but these jumps were very worth it to me.

My SL set up with and with out my PC is the same and more than likely the same as most of the rest of you.

I use the break cord APEX BASE sells (80lbs). I’m sure you can get it from other places but it is real convenient for me to get it from them.

I always tie in with 2 loops.

If I have the option I tie in tight to 2 separate loops on my bridle
(see APEX SUPERBOWL set up)

If not I tie in one tight and one loose.

I adjust my bridle length depending on my jump.

I use ‘carry with you SL’s on illegal jumps, unless I feel it would snag

I tie in as short as possible to lower the snatch forces on my break cord

I undo my pin and riser covers

I prime my pins again to lower the snatch forces
(I want my container to open and my pack job to lift with minimum force possible, thereby giving the break cord the best chance to stay intact)

On legal jumps or places I will be returning to the exit point I set up a stay behind anchor and retrieve it later.

I am paranoid about mine and my buddies bridle routing.
(Arms, feet, snag points catching your bridle or PC are all bad)
(sometimes the best way is to get the last jumper to lightly hold the bridles / PCs, of the other jumpers clear, extra safety is never a bad thing)

I push off just enough to clear the object to minimise the pendulum effect
A light push off here is better than dropping straight down as a canopy always drives forward a little. Adjust this to the jump, under hung / large ledges might mean a running exit is needed (scary on a SL jump be very very paranoid about bridle routing)

You are static lining so chances are you are lower than normal, when you release your brakes let them up slowly to minimise the canopy dive. If you practice this you will see you will fly further from the object on all jumps if you let them up slow. If it is low 130f and below consider a shallow break setting and not releasing the brakes. Land on rear risers. If it is real low 100ft or below adopt the PLF position (you did learn how? Right) as you step off the exit and leave the brakes and risers alone. At this height nothing you do will help just let the canopy do its thing.

Lowest by me so far: 90ft (SL attachment point height) onto concrete.
A Fox 243, ZP, V-Tec, Multi

It landed hard!

I have also jumped 98ft onto grass on my MOJO
(I don’t know if this was a lucky jump or repeatable, I was still using electrical tape and thought it was higher)

120ft onto concrete was done by 3 of use a few weeks back
2 vented canopies and on not, all were acceptable rear riser landings but the vented canopies defiantly had better pressurisation on landing.

Greeny

[Faber 0]

As i also said to hydroguy(this is meant as respect i really like that you ask more than 1 person,good ladIts all about pros and cons
And now Greeny i rember what i should ask you about will take it to PM

Just to point to your post.
I do agree that were you need to out fly stuff you can considder removing your pc,i got the impression it were on genneral jumps,were i think you should keep it on(i never jumped whith out so far)

I dont think that unvented canopyes should be used in such low envioment,to me its the same as using skydive gear off a huge cliff,theres no reasson..

SL 240ft and and 3secs of canopy ride???
Somthing bad has to be happend there,i get longer canopy rides freefalling 180ft.. but so do you..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[greeny 0]

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[I dont think that unvented canopyes should be used in such low envioment,to me its the same as using skydive gear off a huge cliff,theres no reasson..]

That I agree with. On 173ft SL's I have seen non vented canopies land more than once with end cell closers.

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[SL 240ft and and 3secs of canopy ride???
Somthing bad has to be happend there,i get longer canopy rides freefalling 180ft.. but so do you..]

The bridle was electrical taped to a frosty railing and defiantly broke / released prematurely. the PC did all the work

Greeny
(will PM you back in a few mins)