The Result of Our Blown Cover . . .

[TomAiello 25]

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Sure, that may sound self serving, but its serving not one particular individual, but serving the sport itself. And in that case we could use a few more "positive" glory hounds. Where is today's Carl Boenish? Who's out there explaining the sport in positive terms? Why do we only get, "I only do it for the rush, I like to push myself, I like being on the edge." It's easy to say it's because that's what sells. But it's really because that's all these guys have for sale.

It may be a tangent, but I think this is a very interesting point.

Do we (the collective "we") want to have more positive spokesmen? Or would we rather have no spokesmen at all?

In fact, given the reality of the situation (there will always be people proclaiming themselves our spokesmen as they angle for their 10 minutes), would we prefer that the potential "good" spokesmen stay in the shadows, or do we want them to stand up and claim the role of spokesmen for themselves?

Is BASE jumping going to find it's "Tony Hawke" (for those who don't recognize the reference he's the public face of skateboarding to millions, with video games, stadium tours, etc)? Do we want that? And is that going to happen regardless of what we want? And, if so, should we each be lining up to support our favorite candidate for that position?

I do think that we're headed toward greater commercialization, greater publcity, and greater exposure. I personally don't think this is a good thing, but I also don't think there is anything I can do to stop the rushing tide of our history. Can I push the direction a little, though? Can you? Can any of us, or all of us together? Or are we simply going to be swept away on a tide of sponsorship and television appearances?

There are very limited choices out there to be the Tony Hawke of BASE jumping. Frankly, I don't like the options all that much, but I don't think I can change that, because you can never recruit someone with all the appropriate attributes, including a desire to be that guy. Some of the choices I am fairly okay with because I really think those guys are jumping for themselves--not for the publicity, the sponsorships, or the money. Some of the candidates I really don't like, because my feeling is that they're all about the publicity, or the money, or both.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Calvin19 0]

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Who's out there explaining the sport in positive terms? Why do we only get, "I only do it for the rush, I like to push myself, I like being on the edge." It's easy to say it's because that's what sells. But it's really because that's all these guys have for sale.

the woofs would never buy it. ever. if they dont have that feeling that is so fucking beautiful to almost cry the first time they see a BASE jump, then they are hopeless and will never understand the beauty behind BASE.

I saw BASE the first time on tv when i was 13 with my best freind and now BASE jumper, we said then, it was "so beautiful and amazing, i cant wait to grow up. "
his brother saw and said it was so stupid and dangerous, he still does not approve of his brother jumping.

I think it will always be like this.

So, not only does 'extreme near death' sell, its the only thing the woofs can understand. even the paraglider pilots i fly with say that saying BASE is beautiful is delusional and idealistic.

like is said... Hopeless....

-SPACE-

[Calvin19 0]

someone said earlier that they will never be able to think of BASE as lumped with other sports, and thats understandable, because that is all they have ever seen.

but BASE is not the sole super-dangerous sport that it used to be.
However, BASE opened my eyes to possibilities that NO other sport could have, thats for sure

-SPACE-

[jonstark 8]

The only reason Tony Hawke is the so-called spokesman for skateboarders is he was able to go commercial. He became a successful competator then translated that success into an industry. He is the spokesman for that industry, commercialized skateboarding. The rank and file skateboarders didn't elevate him to the position. His status as self made gillionair/skate dude did it for him.

We gonna have someone go commercial with this sport? Cross over into merchandising and WalMart?
Garner favor with the masses? Hmmm... There have been a few make small steps towards it but some are dead and others are spurned by the community they "represent". We got nothing to sell but a little closer view over the edge.

jon

[mindtrick 0]

dude what does skieing have to do with kite surfing
wen i hit a big wave and sore threw the air im like the coolest dudester in the west aint no craker got nothin on me

[wwarped 0]

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Do we (the collective "we") want to have more positive spokesmen? Or would we rather have no spokesmen at all?

In fact, given the reality of the situation (there will always be people proclaiming themselves our spokesmen as they angle for their 10 minutes), would we prefer that the potential "good" spokesmen stay in the shadows, or do we want them to stand up and claim the role of spokesmen for themselves?

having jumped (and plan on doing so in the future) in areas delightfully oblivious of BASE, I prefer to keep things quiet. it reminds me of the bygone era described by NickDG.

TomA lives in a community where BASE has a higher profile. I can understand how a good spokesman could help there.

I also agree with a previous poster that the Tony Hawkes appear on their own. we can't create them. should one appear, we'll know it when we see it...

we may wish for a nearby, perfect object. we may welcome a fresh, charismatic spokesman. we can dream, or simply adapt to the current reality...

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[GreenMachine 0]

I was probably more of a skateboarder than I will
ever be a BASE jumper but I did pack my BASE rig at
the DZ today between hop & pops, drank a couple beers
on the way home, a few more with my wife during dinner,
one reading Nick's post, and another writing mine --- so
here is my input of hops and perspective.

First off, Tony Hawk rocked, he did new tricks, really enjoyed
skating, had fun, and didn't end up cranked out in a hotel room
with an 8-ball and a dead girlfriend. He skated because there
is something really cool about gliding along paid for by sweat
and gravity alone. Of course he continued to do it so well so
long that he became popular and successful -- good for him.

Second, there are plenty of people who want to speak for BASE
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN they really do --- cause trusting your
life to nylon and your skill is not like falling off your board while
trying to roll in a half pipe or trying your first invert. Trust me,
bruises and road-rash do not compare to the carnage that BASE
jumping or skydiving can create.

Third, I have learned many things about BASE and LIFE from
visting this forum. Great men and women have shared their
time, skill, insight, and criticisms with me. Thank you very
much for your help -- I appreciate it.

Lastly, yeah I agree, the fake name shit is lame. A few of you
might have to protect your identity for your military jobs and
that's okay but most of you want to razz people for your own
enjoyment -- to them I say, "go run a lap".

Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

[SLAMBO 0]

Slambo is my nickname, and im sure others on this forum use theirs as well.
There are so many personalities and schools of thought in this sport. People will argue about how underground to keep the sport, or how much we should promote it in the mainstream. Look at sports like freestyle moto x and skateboarding. Riders in these sports were considered some of the outcasts of mainstream sports and even society. Over the years, though positive promotion and media, these are two of the most popular sports, with some of the most payouts. Now Im not saying BASE will ever come to that, but it sure would be cool to see it accepted more. These things take time. Personally, i think it would be rad to oneday be at the x games, staring at a giant crane waiting for BASE jumpers to begin falling off it. Its an awesome sport, no need to hide it completely, it just has to be introduced wisely.
Last year we did a ski base event that turned out great. Despite the fact that someone alerted the forest rangers in advance to our plans (at a legal site), we were able to discuss with them what we were doing, and where we were jumping. We hiked with the rangers and showed them where we were going to be, and they were stoked on it. They came out and watched us the next day. We got a positively written article in Powder Magazine about the event.
Just saying we can introduce BASE jumping pretty easily if we do it right.

Kristian

[78RATS 0]

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Is BASE jumping going to find it's "Tony Hawke"

doesn't Jeb have that job?

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[VincentVL. 0]

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doesn't Jeb have that job?

Positive spokesman as in positive in the eyes of the public. I doubt your average grandmother is going to be charmed by his [/hyperhyper]THEONLYTHINGTHAT'SGONNASTOPMEFROMLUNGINGMYSELFOFFAPUBLICBUILDINGISQUADRAPLEGICAND
DEATHHAHAHAHAHAHALOOKATMYFATSUITHEYISTHATSQUIRREL?[/hyperhyper] type of reactions on national TV.

With all due respect for the man's accomplishments.

[460 0]

yawn. this thread is boring. i can't believe we are jumpers.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>There are some things here that I feel need to be said:

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I think that what I object to on a visceral level is the people who's primary motivations are either attention seeking or financial gain.

The thing that really gets me, though, is when people, especially those motivated primarily by attention seeking or financial gain, know that they are hurting others

Pot, Kettle, Black

>>I haven't been BASE jumping that long but I have been observing the scene since 1997 and have been friends with several jumpers from that era, including your first mentor (who eventually sent you away).
Since the days of Blinc (before the BASEzone existed) you have posted online more than any other BASE jumper. Everybody knows this. You might say that is because you are trying to contribute back to the sport, but it seems a large percentage of your posts are about you taking jabs at jumpers you don't like, and about promoting yourself by claiming the things you've done, or that you jumped with so and so, or that a certain pilot chute in a magazine picture is yours, etc.

>>In threads, you come across as someone who is trying to sell yourself as an all-knowing persona. When you claim to know something and are proved wrong, you ignore it or continue to debate it until you someone is banned.

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Even worse is when people do things just because they know it hurts other people.

>>Like when you ban seasoned BASE jumpers from here because they openly opposed your views. I know of 2 such jumpers that were banned but never broke a forum rule, as far as I know. They opposed your views and both have been BASE jumping longer than you. One of them was even one of your AFF jumpmasters when you started skydiving.

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Here are some examples:

People who will throw anyone off an object for a certain amount of money. This, frankly, turns my stomach. No screening, no thought for student safety, no warnings of the danger. It's not so bad when someone throws their friend, who's general temperment and athletic abilities they are familiar with, off. But when you're willing to take all comers off the street for 50 bucks? This is the guy who says "hey, I don't care, it was a good payday for me."

People who actively downplay the risks involved, especially in an attempt to recruit their friends into BASE jumping, either (a) to score social points, or (b) for the financial reasons given above. These are the guys who say "it's so easy a bag of dogfood could do it" or "it's just as safe as doing a tandem skydive" or "there's no way you could possibly get hurt."

>>Let me guess, this about Miles D. So you think going on the world-wide web putting down another BASE jumper who also lives in Twin Falls and also runs an FJC is professional? There's no doubt in my mind that you're misrepresenting him.

>>What about how you tell your students:

"To be a real BASE jumper one has to break themselves and come back."

And

"You are not a REAL BASE jumper till you have more BASE jumps than Skydives."

>>I'm fairly certain that Miles would never tell his students these two things.

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People who actively publicize sites just because they know other jumpers don't want them to (because it can hurt the site's access). These are the guys who post directions to sites on the internet.

>>How about when you made a large number of elevator keys for a popular longtime A here in NorCal.
This quote from Jimmy Halliday should jog your memory.

" I seem to recall that the first time there was ever any trouble with the W***** G**** Antenna a.k.a. Jon Agnos' antenna, was when Tom Aiello did exactly that. he broke in, got the key, had a gazillion made, put the original back (what for I have no idea) and passed them out as I believe we refered to it as "Hey, please be my friend gifts." "

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People who play up their own skills, experience, etc, regularly in conversation or publications. Usually, this feeds back into the financial gain motivations (although sometimes it's purely attention seeking). These are the guys who give interviews in which they tell the press that they are called "the king of extreme skydiving" or the ones who buy advertisements in magazines with pictures of themselves and the caption "the world's greatest BASE jumper."

>>You made a statement that is not true.

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Remember that I'm talking about peoples primary motivations here. Everyone wants to make a couple dollars for their time, and likes people to know their name. But when those desires take over and become the main reason for your participation in BASE jumping, it's time to walk away and find some other venue where real financial rewards, or real fame, are more readily available.

>>In all honesty, your motivations seem to be that of someone who wants to be a well known BASE jumper, and of someone who wants to make money from the sport. (As listed on your website) All last year and this year you have been charging as much as your competition for FJCs, and in addition to that, you charge $300 per day for coaching and $400 for what you call intermediate courses which cover things that most Other FJCs teach anyway, and some things that have been traditionally shared for free amongst the BASE community. You also charge $400 for gear rental.

>>I really don't have a problem with you or anyone else trying to make some money in this sport, but your post comes off as a very hypocritical attack on other professional BASE jumpers that you don't like, and your underlying tone seems to be driven by jealousy.

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Trying to make your millions, or become a regular on television, by BASE jumping is likely to leave you frustrated, but regardless I don't think that people who are primarily motivated by fame and fortune are a good face for us to show to the world, and I prefer that they not be the spokesmen for BASE.

>>If you're talking about someone like Jeb, then I agree.

[SLAMBO 0]

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dude what does skieing have to do with kite surfing
wen i hit a big wave and sore threw the air im like the coolest dudester in the west aint no craker got nothin on me

you are a bad ass kite surfer. i heard you totally killed it at jaws the other day and stole one of lairds waves by swooping in on your nano.

[SLAMBO 0]

"I do think that we're headed toward greater commercialization, greater publcity, and greater exposure. I personally don't think this is a good thing, but I also don't think there is anything I can do to stop the rushing tide of our history. Can I push the direction a little, though? Can you? Can any of us, or all of us together? Or are we simply going to be swept away on a tide of sponsorship and television appearances? "

What is so wrong with that?
If this ever happened to the extent that you describe, wouldnt that mean that the acceptance of the sport has grown? And isnt that what we seem to want? I know I would be stoked on that for sure. You make it out to be a very bad thing. You may have even taught the next "Tony Hawk" of BASE, but you dont know it yet...

[SLAMBO 0]

Tom, anything?

[atree 0]

Base jumping willl always be sacred for those with their hearts in it. Nothing will change BASE for them. Nothing possibly could. No matter how many fools get involved in the sport or how much publicity it receives what difference does it make? You must be in this sport for yourself not just the surrounding noise/buzz. What do you care if more people know about and possibly oppose your act. It will not change. It is completely irrelevant. Even if BASE were so illegal it was punishable by death what difference would it make? You are already risking your life for BASE. What a waste of time this bickering is. The act in and of itself will never be destroyed and that is all that matters.

[TomAiello 25]

Since you appear to have so much free time why not turn the question on it's head?

What are the advantages of that?

I'll try to write some of my thoughts when I get the time.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wwarped 0]

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What is so wrong with that?
If this ever happened to the extent that you describe, wouldnt that mean that the acceptance of the sport has grown? And isnt that what we seem to want? I know I would be stoked on that for sure. You make it out to be a very bad thing.

you seem to think growth=good. publicity leads to growth, so publicity=good.

if you wish to make a living from the sport, I guess you might be correct. I hope you step up to the plate and expain your reasons. it seems unfair to make us guess. especially since I may guess incorrectly.

as for my opinion...

BASE is best suited to people who find it on their own. it is a sport that demands effort. if new participants start in the sport without having to make an effort, when will they learn that necessary skill? after witnessing/experiencing the dark side?

publicity attracts new participants. now some would have found the sport without the publicity. but others only get involved with the sport because of the publicity.

a surge in participation will naturally result in a surge of deaths. it will also increase the frequency of access issue events. local authorities may disregard 1 such event a year, but what if it becomes 3 or 4?

authorities may choose to limit access to current sites, driving the remaining jumpers to fewer sites. the increased jumping at the remaining sites will likely create additional problems.

a carnival, reckless atmosphere closed a prominant US valley a few decades ago. wiil the same close a Swiss valley? an Italian wall?

few will fight alongside our interests out of the goodness of their hearts. they must also have a vested interest. once someone can charge us $100/jump, they'll assist in the fight...

so SLAMBO, your turn to explain why growth=good.
the ball is in your court.
time to step up to the plate and contribute to the dialogue, not simply criticize.
convince me I am wrong.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[Butters 0]

Do remember that there are other activities with far more publicity and participants that still remain illegal. Publicity and participants do not always lead to legalization.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Calvin19 0]

sorry i still bring up paragliding, but there was a time when PG was considered super dangerous and a death sport, as well as HG, now there is a governing body in all countries, and legal sites everywhere. of course, its not the SUPER DOOPER dangerous sport of BASE

[wwarped 0]

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sorry i still bring up paragliding, but there was a time when PG was considered super dangerous and a death sport, as well as HG, now there is a governing body in all countries, and legal sites everywhere. of course, its not the SUPER DOOPER dangerous sport of BASE

how many of the sites are commercial? (i.e., the owner has a financial interest in maintaining the activity.)

how many of the sites have the liability risk of a BASE site?

I really have no clue... you may have a valid point, but is it apples to apples?

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[SLAMBO 0]

Actually I have to go work a 16 hour shift right now. It seems like you are the one constantly sitting at your computer scanning the BASE board for people you dont like.

[Calvin19 0]

and you also have a good point. it is obvious that paragliding is much safer than BASE, and always will have the reputaion of being safer.

i guess it depends on how you define commercial, here in boulder there is a local PG site that is run by the city. i dont know if that would be commercial, as it seems that the city gains nothing from PG there, and they act that way. they might know that PG pilots give money to city parks, specificaly. on top of tax.

[wwarped 0]

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i guess it depends on how you define commercial, here in boulder there is a local PG site that is run by the city. i dont know if that would be commercial, as it seems that the city gains nothing from PG there, and they act that way. they might know that PG pilots give money to city parks, specificaly. on top of tax.

USPA's BOD is dominated by commercial operators. they have a strong financial incentive to make sure the regulatory environment does NOT change.

people making money off of us will come to our aid. whether they operate a hotel, bar, restaurant, etc. people making money tend to have more clout than a bunch of out-of-towners.

obviously, every state in the US has a different legal environment. I still expect having "friends" would ease any concerns about potential liabilities.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[traker 0]

Am I the only one who read Zegeunerleben's post!

Well said!

"we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna