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NickDG

Warning - The Entire U.S. is Hot . . .

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(oh, and btw - plenty of talented BASE jumpers have NO problem posting here. some names you might recognize, and some you might not. not every talented BASE jumper seeks a soapbox, fame, publicity, notoriety, etc.)



I never said that they do. It is a fact that some of them are completely banned from accessing the site. Yes, they can go to a friends house to view it. Thanks for clarifying that great fact.

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quote:
"So Im assuming you watched this video, which is why you know about it? And by watching it you have thus supported it. If you have ever bought a BASE video with illegal jumps on it you have supported it. There is nothing wrong with promoting yourself and the sport as cool shit. its the only way it will ever get recognition. I bet you watched jackass and laughed at it, but God forbid you see something you can relate with jackass in YOUR sport!
Skate videos constantly show athletes trespassing, i dont see skaters complaining about their peers.
I enjoy watching those "hey look at me videos." I think they are rad, and if you are not entertained by them then you are a silly sally.
plus it doesnt matter i am so fast at running and good at being stealthy i will never get caught in NY."


nah man, just annoyed with the bike hitting the "A". showing beer drinkin' and stuff like that. stuff like that won't help open up things for us.

again tresspassings not the issue. i love JEBS vids and others. i like my own as well. also again if YOU choose to do "bike" type stunts maybe you shouldn't be so public about things is all (opinion). and keep it to yourself.
i mean isn't the "caddy" up north just screwed now with security because of the need for daytime video shots??? like i said before "people with talent and bad judgement"

i did like JTs (inspires me to track better) and MILES (makes me want to move to TW and work on aerials) stuff on keen n' able also nice hand held gainer by jimmy as well. didn't understand the need for the wind tunnel and other stuff on there (just filler i guess)!!!................. doesn't matter i didn't pay for the video anyway!
NPS SUX ASS

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***
Thanks for clarifying that great fact.



your welcome!:)
to ALL:
we must be careful with what we say and do regarding anything related to site access. we may not agree on Jeb's action, or the govenment's response. it's just that when dealing with authorities, perception matters. they will not attempt to see OUR side (not enough votes or financial "support"). if we are unclear, we will suffer. if our words and deads do not match, we will lose credibility. either we must communicate clearly and address THEIR concerns, or we must start thinking like SKIN.
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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You guys can throw the term "old schooler" at me, that's fine, and even though you mean it in a derogatory sense I'll wear that tag with honor. My perspective on BASE is very different than yours as my thoughts have formed over a longer run. And being the demographic of this board is skewed toward the post Red Bull generation I expected a good slamming.

I will, however, address a couple of your points.

Someone said I was re-writing BASE history when I suggested all previous generations of jumpers kept BASE on the down low. The example cited was Carl Boenish and the distributions of his films throughout the world. Well, I knew Carl both before and after he began what at the time was called fixed object jumping. In fact, from 1978 until about 1980 when Phil Smith started jumping antenna towers in Texas the sport was merely known as cliff jumping, as that was pretty much all that was being jumped.

Carl was first and foremost a photographer. Prior to the jumps he organized at El Cap in 1978 it's well known if you had an "outside the norm" type project going and you needed it documented on film then Carl was your man. He loved to film anything involving parachutes and the goofier it was the better. So it's well known, even though I wish I could say it was a higher calling, Carl had set up the whole El Cap thing just for the opportunity to film it.

I've written extensively on Carl both here and over on the BASE Board so you can search it out if you want. But the point I'm making is Carl's generation of BASE jumper was as different as my generation is from yours. To over simplify I see it as three distant eras. From 1978 to when the BASE numbers began in 1982 no one thought much about hiding their jumping activities. At the time there was every reason to believe the sport would be embraced and applauded as just another amazing thing human beings could do. So Carl felt no need to hide the activity as the only place the sport was having any trouble was in the National Parks. In fact, I know he thought public opinion would only help that situation.

I was there at Lake Elsinore in 1978 on the night Carl showed the El Cap footage for the very first time. And none of us watching thought, "Gee, he shouldn't be showing this too people." Calling Carl a glory hound, or comparing him to people who post BASE vids on Youtube is very unfair in view of the times he lived in.

The second era of the sport began when BASE wasn't accepted as we all thought it would be and it lasted from about 1982 until the year 2000. During this time we spilt into two camps. One side thought it best to hide our activities and the other thought, screw what others think, and made no bones about being BASE jumpers. I waffled between both groups at that time and for many reasons. BASE jumping then wasn't at all accepted by the skydiving community as it is today. To openly admit to being a BASE jumper was the kiss of death at many DZs if you were an Instructor or held any other DZ job. It's hard for you to imagine nowadays the vitriol aimed at us from skydivers, who I imagine felt somehow threatened by us, and we were now being blamed for any image problem that befell skydiving at the time.

At first I was in the "out" camp my thinking being if we rammed BASE down people's throats long enough we'd win acceptance. It just didn’t exist (and still doesn't) in my mind that BASE would languish, or die off, as it was just too beautiful of a thing.

It was around this time I started the "Fixed Object Journal" a BASE magazine I published from 1989 to the early '90s. Mine was the third such publication with Carl's "BASE Magazine" being first until he died in 1984 and then Phil Smith's "BASELine" magazine came second. These magazines were "in house" or in other words only circulated to people in the sport or interested in the sport, and they never appeared on newsstands for public consumption.

My thinking, at the time, is it was important to get safety information to people who were starving for it. This is a time prior to the advent of BASE gear manufactures as we know them today and some of stuff we were using would curl your toes. There was also no knowledge base that exists today and every jump was still pretty much an experiment.

At the time we weren't dying in great numbers, and the only reason for that was there weren't that many if us, and the rate of jumps per person was low. But we were suffering constant and horrible injuries. So much so that it became hardly mentionable when the plaster casts were visited upon you. Getting hurt became a normal part of the sport.

But then, after the BASE gear industry gained a foothold, and we started to get acceptance because people were being exposed to other "extreme" sports the death rate in BASE started to rise dramatically. We went from losing one or two people a year to losing several and more a year. The sport is still rather small so these are not strangers but friends.

It was then I, and many others, changed their minds and started advising people to keep BASE jumping to themselves. This is when I finally realized BASE was like no other sport in that it was way too easy to get in over your head and the spike in fatalities bolstered that point.

Then came the third generation of BASE, your generation. And now I will retract something I said up-board. I came down too hard in calling you "all" glory hounds. That used to be a term we reserved for the worst of the worse offenders. But bear with me for a moment and I try to weasel out like a man. We videoed ourselves too. It was a bit harder back then as consumer video cameras were still pretty spendy, but the big difference is we had no method of easy distribution like you do today. And I'm not so sure we would have been able to resist doing it any more than you can now.

But there is a big difference between then and now. A video camera at the launch point was not so normal like is today. The few videos I have of any of my jumps are all in the dark with no lighting and the only interesting part, in most cases, is the audio. The majority of my BASE jump memories exist only in my mind. Even today I never think to take a video camera along on a BASE jump.

That said we all have to face up to the biggest problem in BASE jumping. And that problem was the basis of my first post. Too many of us are dying. I just added Shane Richards to the Fatality List this morning and we are averaging a fatality a month. When you're brand new to the sport that might seem normal, but I'm here to tell you it's not normal at all. And the only way we are going to affect those numbers is by keeping BASE a bit more underground and making it a bit harder for all but the most determined to get into BASE. Right now we have thousands of 12-year olds watching your vids on the internet. What do you think the outcome of that is going to be?

Why we are dying in such numbers is no big mystery. There are simply more of us and we are making more jumps per person. That's progress, you may say, and there's nothing we can do about it. But there is something we can do about it. But first you have to give a damn. I've been keeping the BASE Fatality List going for about 18 years now and I've mentioned before that it's getting harder to keep up my original enthusiasm which was purely to educate newer jumpers and prevent needless deaths. But, I can't help but feel, in an admittedly myopic way, I've failed in that as the fatality numbers continue to grow.

My own participation in BASE is in its twilight, as both physically and mentally I'm losing the edge I once had. Someday soon I will ask some poor sap to take over the Fatality List rather than just pull it off the web because deep down I know it does help to a certain extent. That person will also have great enthusiasm until he or she reaches the point where they get sick in their stomachs every time they write one of those reports.

Lastly, I never wanted to wind up being "that old guy" who doesn't understand the new thing. Especially after I've seen so many go that route before me. One thing I'll always regret in my BASE career was our treatment of Jean Boenish after Carl died. She didn’t have the skill to impart effectively the message of being safe and to have respect for the sport. So we laughed at her and we ridiculed her, and we swore we'd never become like here ourselves. But, we were wrong and she was right.

Someone said the reasons for my initial post was, "you must really hate us," but, it's just the opposite, I love you all, and even though many of you resist the idea we are brothers and sisters I still, and always will feel, that way.

I am you thirty years ago, and you'll be me thirty years from now . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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Nick,
i only read the first paragraph of your post, but want to be the first to respnd.

the term 'old schooler' is given to you and others, from me and i assume most others in here, with full respect, and is not meant in any kind of derogetory way. it is understood that you have much more knoledge of this sport than anyone else out there for the most part.

all it is meant to describe is that, you are, an older, seasoned jumper. and most of the rest of us are not.

would you like us to use a diferent term?

edit-of course, we use the term losely, because old schoolers take it in a derogetory way, and its funny. :P

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Beautifully written Nick. We've talked about this subject before and this post summarizes many of the key points of those conversations. Thank you for taking the time to write what you have. Your wisdom and knowledge are greatly appreciate by many... perhaps even the (silent) majority.

Be well,

-=Raistlin
find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;



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You've twisted this Nick and you know it.

Nobody came here calling you an old schooler and ridiculing you because of it. You did however insult many of us by just slamming us all as 'mtv' generation x types who frankly didn't give a fuck about BASE and it's heritage.

I never called Carl a glory hound, and for you to interpret it that way is obtuse. You did however level that accusation at an entire generation of jumpers out there who you seemingly have no faith in or respect for.

You can contextualise it all you want, but when push comes to shove many of the videos today are born of the same motivations which drove Carl to make and distribute his.

BASE does have it's share of problems with object access and protection, but the point i was making was that it always has had, and always will have.

BASE does have it's share of pranksters doing daft things off objects for the glory or for the notoriety but again, I've seen the pogo sticks, skateboards and stilts pranks off el cap in the day. They weren't done in the name of scientific discovery or progress were they.

I'm not having a go at you Nick, I just don't appreciate you having a go at me (indirectly of course).

I have nothing but reverence for the pioneers of BASE, and I have nothing but respect for the bulk of jumpers who walked the path before me.

I just wish you wouldn't generalise like that and tar many of us with the same brush. There are hundreds of good, solid, down to earth, respectful, humble, realistic, underground jumpers out there, still burning the torch.

Don't give up on us yet.

BTW his name was Sean Richards, not Shane.

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Magot sent me the following text

"Tell the idiots on dz to mind there own business its are play ground"

Sadly he can't post. Notice I didn't edit for spelling / grammer either.....

He's still on blinc though....

Anyway, I don't know if I missed it or not, but this law, proposed law is only right now for NYC.

http://www.senatorgolden.com/press_archive_story.asp?id=15611

Notice that this was from his press archive, Jan 18th.

The great paper the Brooklyn graphic didn't run this story till Feb 8th..... Not exactly earth breaking news to say the least.

As for the issue, will other cities, municipalities follow? Perhaps, perhaps not. Skin said it best a few pages ago.

So right now, who does this proposed lawaffect those that jump regularly in NYC. I am not one of them, though I made a jump there with Magot last week. The fun jump that it was.

In truth, it doesn't affect him that much, cause he doesn't care, he'll just jump anyway.

So here we all are searching for damage control, and blaming ourselves and each other. Shit happens. Time to stand back and watch the fall out. We'll see who's still around when it's all over.

Me, I can't afford a felony with my job, so I'll just go back to Twin and Moab... I accept the risk of death, but losing my job... well that would just suck.

Still have those sites for now right?


_justin

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Look.... Not that I even live there right now but regardless of the ramafications i'll jump there again. Honestly in NYC, this law doesnt make that much difference. As it stands now a building jump in manhatten nets you 3 felonys w/a bust. Usual charges, but everything in the 5 borroughs is a felony after the patriot act. so what's a fourth at that point....?

You know what the funniest part is.....? Brooklyn ain't got shit for objects. The couple that may have been done aren't done nearly as often as neighboring burroughs.

And Nick........ "Old school" has always carried a certain weight of respect to my ears. The crowd is growing, and with it wil be more people of all types, and more fatalitys. It's just a numbers game now.

Stay safe all......

BASE NYC will not be stopped

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death."
Hunter S. Thompson

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Me, I can't afford a felony with my job, so I'll just go back to Twin and Moab... I accept the risk of death, but losing my job... well that would just suck



Your job is more important than your life?!
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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So here we all are searching for damage control, and blaming ourselves and each other. Shit happens. Time to stand back and watch the fall out. We'll see who's still around when it's all over.



I wish people would not look at this as a blame game. I view it as an opportunity for people to stand up and accept responsibility for their actions, a chance to learn from mistakes. we don't need to act on emotions, but on rational thought. many use video quite constructively for this very purpose.

Jeb has manned up for the ESB attempt.

will anyone who posts video change? I don't know. please be aware that efforts to popularize BASE will have unintended side effects. not everything goes as planned, expected, or even hoped.

raising the profile of BASE will raise the concern of many politicians.

BASE has evolved. it looks far different than in Carl's day. we have learned how to be safer and the price of not acting responsibly. I think we should learn from the past rather than blindly repeating it.
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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Senator Golden (aka “Squeaky”) is a reasonable man. He is simply looking for a little grease.

Send the boys in black over to have a little talk with him. Throw a little pork chop in with the deal and Bitta-Bang, Bitta-Bing… “Forget About It!”

Everybody’s fuckin’ happy.

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Senator Golden (aka “Squeaky”) is a reasonable man. He is simply looking for a little grease.

Send the boys in black over to have a little talk with him. Throw a little pork chop in with the deal and Bitta-Bang, Bitta-Bing… “Forget About It!”

Everybody’s fuckin’ happy.



dear god nooooooo.... lol
Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

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Hey, guys. Let's all back up a second here... This is a state senator, introducing legislation for his state, not the nation. Certainly, there is the risk of precedent being set, but Google around a little bit. I caught this article a couple of days ago and in that time, the Brooklyn Graphic is the only rag that's covering it. Brooklyn. Some 150 miles away from the senator's home turf of Albany. He didn't even rate locally. Search the senator's website and you'll find a single press release, dated Jan 18th. It took the "press" a good 20 days to pick it up. Just how important do you think this is to him? He really couldn't give a freefalling fuck.


----------------------------------------------------------

Good point. This Senator is an idiot. And quite frankly most of his political adversaries are probably salavating at the ammo this will undoubtedly provide, as it's obvious this guy could be spending his time working on legitimate policies rather than laws that possibly apply to less than 10,000 people in this country. . . . .maybe! In my opinion his critics will eat him alive for wasting his time on an illegal activity that can't even be quantified, as most jumping activity happens at night when no one is around. With that notion others states may be more likely to look at it as a waste of time. . . .hopefully.

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Hey, guys. Let's all back up a second here... This is a state senator, introducing legislation for his state, not the nation.




Not for the state of NY....

Quote

State Senator Marty Golden will introduce legislation ending the reckless act of B.A.S.E. jumping from any building, bridge, antenna or similar structure in the City of New York.



City of NY... New York is more than just the city. It is an important distinction.....

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