0
GreenMachine

Lesson Learned

Recommended Posts

i did it several years ago with almost the same "system"....
the cutaway was on the highest point of climb with a round canopie,...towed behind a van...
the only reason why i still have teeth in my mouth is the fact that i was wearing a fullface helmet :S

maybe a factor was bad timing during the cutaway...
whatever...
be carefull out there:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


the only reason why i still have teeth in my mouth is the fact that i was wearing a fullface helmet


i'm assuming you weren't very high when you cut away .. correct?
Nathan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...or did your half of the cutaway system slingshot back into your face when you released it?
Web Design
Cleveland Skydiving
"Hey, these cookies don't taste anything like girl scouts..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not bad but there is more advanced tec out there all ready. You might look into what the para glider people are doing before you reinvent the wheel.
Thoughts:

Haveing the pig tail on the handle should help but I have had exposed swedges push through the loops before.
You really need a week link in there.
You need a way to moderate the tension on the rope.
Lock Out ocures when you get off the wind line and your body is pulled out from beneath the canopy. You must actively keep your self in line. It can quickly reach the point that you can not correct for it. the only way to stop it is to slack the line alowing you to turn back to the wind line.
This can happen from just a small change in wind direction.
60m is not near enough line.
At the least you need a cut away at the other end. If things go bad you will be very bussy.
Keep the rings in the toggles where you can reach them.
Armor and a REAL helmit.
Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Quote

...landing on rears. It takes more skill than I had originally thought.



Sorry, but I consider that bullshit. I've said this a million times, and I'll say it again; landing a BASE canopy on rear risers is the easiest thing on the world. Anybody who biffs in at the Perrine while flaring with rear risers is a fucking tool and shouldn't have jumped in the first place.

Btw, I'm a shitty pilot.



haha. 105 basejumps and 287 skydives and he's a fucking expert. or is that 287 jumps total?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Haha. 105 basejumps and 287 skydives and he's a fucking expert or is that 287 jumps total?



Total, and you know it. Note how I also pointed out I'm a shitty pilot. Glad to see you're still reading the forums. I hear Adam R. is looking for a mentor. Should I give him your phone-number?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Armor and a REAL helmet.



Amen. Good boots, too.

I "Heckered" a few weekends ago while towing in the desert. Collapse on a small speed glider at 40' after it crept right on takeoff. It began to reinflate just as I hit and probably helped a little, but not as much as my Impact Jacket, fullface mtn bike helmet and mountaineering boots. I PLFd to the best of my ability, but took a solid hit to my back and head after my hip. Actually bounced into the air and rolled forward. When I sat up, I felt no pain (and immediately started looking for the compound fracture I couldn't feel, yet).
All I did, though, was break a big toe on my left foot, bruise the left heel and severely bruise the right heel. Crutches for a week.
I'd like to thank Dianese, Giro and La Sportiva.

Quote

At the least you need a cut away at the other end. If things go bad you will be very bussy.



Another good point. It takes at least 3 people to tow properly: pilot, driver, winch operator. If not for my friend on the winch who cut tension, I would likely have locked out before the collapse. I was reaching to cutaway, but had enough other shit to worry about.

-C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
'heckered'

HEY. :|


:P

Actualy, I am pretty sure that i have more experience with BASE canopy towing than most of the people posting in this thread, i just now noticed that this thread was about it.

SO-

Green man, your release system is totaly solid. for a release system. but Personaly, i would NEVER-EVER NEVER NEVER hook into a tow system without a drop release (will explain in a minute) or a weak link. preferably a drop release if i was BASE canopy towing, well, any non paraglider towing. you were doing something that has killed at least one person i know of.

so, I do this thing a bunch. well, have done it a bunch. its been awhile. I use FIXED lines, because i dont have the money for a payout setup, and payout should be used. I have towed anything from a saber 150 to a tandem 400 to a 1993 paraglider. for fixed length towing, you MUST use a VERY long line. the shortest i would do it with is 200meters. 60heavy rope is, well, one of the sketchier things i have heard today. and thats saying something.

ok, next point. for parachute high speed towing (paraglider towing is SLOW airspeed) even a BASE canopy at .7 loading is fast. communication is vital between tow operator, and pilot. (hand signals WITH visibility at all times during tow works[NOT at night on a pavement 5000' runway with light posts on either side :S]) get radios, if not one in the pilots helmet, a SMART person with pilot at launch point has it.

finaly, and most important, the RELEASE. risers are easy to get, work reallty well, but in a lockout, one would take more than appropriet time to get at it, like a smart guy wrote earlier, a downplane with a truck:D

so, use a 2, 3, or 4 'ring' cord release system. basicaly it is a combination of a 3ring riser idea, and a paraglider tow release.


take 4 lengths of cord, (the best is about 6mm kermantle cord, or 1500lb spectra) the longest one 10', next 6', next 3', next 2'. attatch either end of each line to either side three ring on harness.

now, you might see what im getting at.
pull the apex of the longest loop through the tow LOOP (this MUST be a 5' circumfrence flexible tubeing-covered rope at the pilot end of the tow line.
to make that, thread the tow rope through 5+ feet of 1" flexible tubing, tie a knot to make that a loop of hardend rope.

so, as i said, pull the apex of the longest loop through the newly made tow rope loop, and pull it back toward the pilot, pull the apex of the 2nd longest loop through the loop of the 1st longest, then pull the apex of the 3rd longest loop through that, and so on to the smalles, the last apex should go in you teeth, mollars. i used a bit of duct tapeto make a bite place on this.

now, to tow, at any point you can just relax your jaw, and your free. you dont have to find a handle.

I have used this a lot, and i still think that fixed line lowing parachutes is the most dangerous thing i have gotten good at.

watch out. not playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://uncutvideo.aol.com/videos/ab13e2a41ebadb2ff42105363ec7916a

ok, these two kids are my paraglider freinds, and i traded them my OLD base dagger 222 for an extra paraglider so they could tow it on a lake behind a boat, they took video.

they KINDA did it like i told them, i gave them the drop release that i built, and it worked really well, there is even a lockout midway through the film, where my freind SHOULD have released, but he was low over water so no worries.

their line is really short for my taste, and there are a few close calls. the long lines are good for a lot of things, one being the fact that when you release from a tow, you drop and surge, a lot.


edity to add-
dont worry, i only gave them the harness and canopy, no bridal/pc.:$

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hadn't yet realized that you could use the 3ring concept like that. Great idea. Thanks.
I've got this really hardcore group of gaurdian angels that need a free paid vacation.
~Dan Osman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I hadn't yet realized that you could use the 3ring concept like that. Great idea. Thanks.


neither did we for the first few hours. :S but in the last few years,,, its never failed.

just be sure if you do it that the easy-slide tube covered loop on the pilot end of the tow rope is big.long enough so that the apex of the big loop on the 4-'ring' will not get caught on the knot. if it can, it will. and be sure that the loops on the rig have no twists in them, that includes the tow rope. it will twist the release rig and make it fail, or, not fail. whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and be sure the mouth loop is in your molars, not your front teeth. i want pictures if you mess that up.

we have gotten HUGE tensions on the fixed length lines, due to wind sheer. we switched from three ring to four ring for that reason.
i want to put my load cell on that, to see what force it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That brings someting to mind. any body still have a copy of the old, think it was Patreak, of them towing an elipticalbehind a speed boat. Was it one of the Traveling videos?

Lee
Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Calvin,

Thanks for the input --- I like the idea of using a cut-away
system that does not require using the hands because there
was one run where a strong gust of wind made flying the
wing and trying to cut-away at the same time made for a
very, very scary moment.

I think I got the concept from your description --- instead of
using a handle with a pigtail for the cutaway use several loops
of rope which gives a mechanical advantage to reduce the force
and gets the line safely to the teeth.

Any way you could email me a photo of the setup?
I tried to view the video of your paraglider friends but
between AOL sucking and my slow ass DSL the video
just kept stuttering.

Thanks again for the expert input man!
Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
expert?

nah... just the dumb kid who has done it lot and learned from it. there are a lot fo things with parafoils i do that i probably shouldnt. i know you know what i mean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont have a picture of the release, we mostly did this at night on a runway at my airport, mostly.

but, i keep a journal of all my rope huck ideas nd designs and systems completed and shite, so i have this, you can see whats going on. like i said, it works with only 3 loops, but in high speed towing of HUGE canopies it could hurt your teeth, it never ripped out of my mouth or the boys, but it def did pull on our jaws. NO FRONT TEETH>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some great ideas here! Here's more.

With a big canopy and strong enough wind (~15mph), there is no need for tow, simply anchor the rope and kite yourself up. You payout the rope as you go up to maintain the angle of tension. (your end of the rope is not permanently attached to your quick release, instead it goes through (the excess rope just lies on the ground) and you control it with a tension mechanism.) Go up a few hundred feet, cutaway, turn downwind and have a nice little cross-country flight.

Now imagine you go up a big mountain (not WS BASE-jumpable) and launch yourself this way a thousand feet up with a packed rig and wingsuit, cutaway and fly. The launch canopy will fall to the ground (will need to invent something to keep it deflated while it's tethered). Land, hike up, repeat. Totally autonomous wingsuit mountain flying.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hey man, i have actualy done that. Me and my best jumper freind and the girl he was screwing at the time drove out to our local huge A to check out the rumors of new security, it was windy as hell, and we had our car-tow rig in the car. just anchored the line at 500', and i hooked in with the drop release with my dagger, now THAT was sketchy. ask alex, he thought i was going in on a few of the gusts. it was like the car was varying in speed by 20mph, it was 15mph, then 35, crazy. thats colorado wind for ya.

wasnt up a mountain, that would be a huge bitch to retreive all the tow line, set up, etc. but its a cool idea. even winding 3000' of tow line we were using at the airport took at least an hour. we couldnt afford a winch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yeah, steady wind is paramount for this. Would a paragliding canopy in weaker winds (<10mph?) be a better setup than a smaller base canopy in strong winds then?
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ha!!
i had my Gin Bonanza as well in the car that day, and ALMOST grabbed it instead of my dagger, if i had, i would have been in the hospital for 3 months 2 days early.

but, i dont know, the only paraglider towing i have done is either the accepted scooter towing, or 1996 gliders, and they tow a lot differently than the new wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not exactly related to the discussion, but cool stuff anyway related to using the wind.

Check this video out. It's non-powered sailing directly downwind faster than the wind. Sounds impossible, yeah? Here is the description of the vehicle, there's a picture of a bigger vehicle on page 10 here, and there's an explanation how it all works here.

Cool shit! ;)
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ok, thats totaly bad ass. i just spent an hour going through the files and sites on that idea. brilliant and simple. the best ones always are simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if i wasnt banned from every forum but this one, i would say lets move this to the bonfire.

-SPACE-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry about the wait.

here is the sewn version. its a lot cleaner. it can be done with just knots, but we did/do it enough to make it clean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hey I just made one of those!

didn't use it though, going to try another day.
A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0