Carnage Video

[d_goldsmith 1]

A carnage video disapeared off of skydivingmovies.com

I read the thread about renes dam strike that got brought back up, and downloaded both videos again not realizing they were ones I already had on my computer (that's some hardcore shit), and then downloaded all the new videos and while I was watching the newest one, called "scary_video_sdm", a buddy showed up to pick me up to go jump :) I tried to show him it on SDM and it wasn't there. I just got back, no jump, but made progress on access, and it still isn't there.

I notice that most of the footage is stuff I have seen at Tom A's house from the carnage video he shows newbie's, but it also has some stuff I'm pretty sure I hadn't seen there. I downloaded the whole thing and I still have it on my computer. It's a 97.5Meg WMV that's 47 minute and 11 seconds long.

The reason I bring this up is because it's obviously a good thing for people to see that are interested in BASE. I'm wondering what happened to it, and what will happen if I put it back up? Did someone decide they wanted to modify it and put it up again later, or did the owner of SDM remove it maybe?

I've got this really hardcore group of gaurdian angels that need a free paid vacation.
~Dan Osman

[cpoxon 0]

Yeah, Dave removed it. That sort of stuff isn't really the sort of thing we want on public access, is it? Please keep it to yourself otherwise one day it will end up on YouTube. having all that carnage in one place isn't going to do us a lot of favours in the eyes of the public. I think even in our community it is questionable, although it does have some merits. If it's the video Yuri put together recently (and has issued some updates in the past), then it was already out there and if you felt that you needed to see it there were ways of achieving that. It worked pretty well. Just like BASE, it shouldn't be presented on a plate, you should do a little work for it.

Also, I would think that if Yuri wanted it to be publically downloadable, he would have uploaded it himself. What say you Yuri?

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[d_goldsmith 1]

I see what you mean. I won't share with the www

I just finished watching the whole thing and it seems to be exactly what I saw at Tom A's house during memorial day death camp, lower quality though obviously.

I've got this really hardcore group of gaurdian angels that need a free paid vacation.
~Dan Osman

[cpoxon 0]

Quote

I see what you mean. I won't share with the www

I wouldn't share (viewing) with anyone unless they really need to see it and they can be trusted with it (physically).

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[d_goldsmith 1]

A friend that was in the death camp with me asked me to email it to him. Unless Tom ask's me not to, I'm going to. I think he can be trusted with it. Other than that I will only show BASE jumping friends of mine that might need to see it. Tom, the friend is from Finland.

I'm curious if Tom put this up, or if someone has a copy. I doubt it's someone else's compilation because it seemed the exact same. Except it had a lot of built in play back and slow motion.

I've got this really hardcore group of gaurdian angels that need a free paid vacation.
~Dan Osman

[crazydave44 0]

I support that anyone wanting to get involved in BASE should watch this video. It 'used' to be a prerequisite at my home turf. It was to be viewed before you go on your first mentored jump. Although, the only jumper that possesses it in my area doesn't really jump anymore.( that I know of...)....And our crew really only consist of 3 experienced jumpers. (Which is pretty cool, but kind of frustrating sometimes...)

I watched it when I started doing GC, about a year before I actually took the leap. I really think I should have watched it an hour before my first jump. I think I lost some of the true impact, (no pun intended) and awareness that this video could have provided for me from the time I first did GC, to the time I did my first jumps. This may have prevented me from being as anxious, and doing some of the foolish things I did when I first started.
The more I jump, the more I realize how serious this sport really is.
If you are considering getting into BASE, do it with patients, as much knowledge as you can obtain, be current in skydiving,( including accuracy and drills with a big 7 cell), hard work, , determination, perseverance, and ONE mentor you know you can trust. All of this while accepting the true danger and ultimate addiction that lies before you.

Anyway, no more preaching. Just do it wholeheartedly, and not because you think it's cool. It really isn't for everyone.

________________________________________
"We make our own rules, We pave our own paths, We write our own destinies, We 'live' our own lives"
________________________________________

[pilotdave 0]

Yep, I watched a few minutes of it and decided it looked like the kind of video that's likely to end up all over the internet, so I put a watermark on it to help prevent that.

After watching the rest, I decided that video was probably not put together for public viewing, so I removed it. The first half is pretty good... tons of wall strikes and recoveries, landing injuries, etc. Enough to scare me away from BASE. I may just chop the second half off and put it back up. I don't think the world needs to be seeing 5 or so different views of dwain weston's death or a number of other fatalities. Or at least I don't want to be involved.

What do other people think?

Dave

[Zoter 0]

I'm not sure 'watching' somebody die can be instructional....at least not in a way a written description couldnt illustrate the tragic event.

I think there is value/instructional benefit in watching somebody save their own life .

Some people say that watching someone die is intsructional for new BASE jumpers...to graphically show them the potential consequences.....personally I dont agree thats necessary, but do understand why people show it.

[mostwanted 0]

i would like to watch more (nonfatal) incident videos (on skydivingmovies.com) AND then read some discussions about the circumstances leading to those incidents (on dz.com) and how those incidents could have been prevented.

[gun986 0]

Since I've been in the sport, I have yet to see this video but heard of it from a few different people. I would love to show a few friends who have just gotten into the sport and are taking it a bit lightly what can happen.

I agree that it probably isn't something for the internet community, but it would be nice to give the people trying to get into the sport a reality check.

G

Uhh, you want fries with that?

[460 0]

Some of the footage on that video was taken without permission from me. It was never ever meant to be shown.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

I'm curious if Tom put this up..

I did not.

I don't think that video ought to be distributed via internet, because I think it's the kind of thing that ought to reside in the hands of experienced BASE jumpers, and be shown (not given) to new jumpers who are (in the judgement of the experienced jumper who has the video) in need of a "slow down and don't be this guy" lesson.

There is definitely a lot of good educational material there, but in it's current form you pretty much need an experienced jumper who understands the mechanics of the accidents to narrate for you, or much of the lesson is lost.


Carnage videos have a long history in BASE, and I think that part of our culture is watching them (yes, sometimes even as entertainment). But I don't think that distributing them to non-BASE jumpers is desirable, and I think that internet distribution is too public, allowing many people access to a video that probably shouldn't be viewed so widely.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[VincentVL. 0]

Spoke too soon

[lifewithoutanet 0]

Quote

If it's the video Yuri put together recently (and has issued some updates in the past), then it was already out there and if you felt that you needed to see it there were ways of achieving that. It worked pretty well. Just like BASE, it shouldn't be presented on a plate, you should do a little work for it.

Also, I would think that if Yuri wanted it to be publically downloadable, he would have uploaded it himself. What say you Yuri?

Quote

Some of the footage on that video was taken without permission from me. It was never ever meant to be shown.

I'd say that's two strong points against making yourself a 'distributor' of this footage. I know Yuri was pretty adamant about not putting this out there for the general populace. I knew someone who had it, and instead of getting it from them, I went to Yuri. He specifically asked me not to distribute it, and I know he's said the same to others. If someone asks me for it, they won't get it...regardless of who they are or how much I trust them. It's not mine.

If someone needs to see it, it's one thing to show it to them. If they need a copy, they can do the work themselves and get it from the source (which apparently would be more than just Yuri).

-C.

[wwarped 0]

Quote

What do other people think?

Dave

it's your site, so it is your rules. but you may wish to consider some points.

personally...
the BASE community regularly fights public perception. we complain that treatment by law officials and the media is biased.

- but we edit which videos are readily available? isn't that introducing bias from our side? are we not practicing the same behavior we complain about?

-----

many also don't like the number of unprepared jumpers entering the sport.

- isn't this a side effect of the biased slant of all these videos? are not carnage videos used to dampen the unbridled enthusiasm created by the readily accessible videos?

-----

like most things in BASE, it is your choice...

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[base1072 0]

not everyone in he video dies

[littlestranger 0]

Quote

What do other people think?

good call. this video is graphic and really shouldn't be available to the mass public. deferring to yuri and letting him decide who he wishes to distribute it to is the right course.

we know the media is out there using this forum as a research base, the less ammunition they have the better.

to quote a friend of mine, "I don't have to watch people die to know how dangerous BASE is".

[pilotdave 0]

BTW, if you want to see a fatality, there's THIS one from a while back at the Eiffel tower. Wingsuit jump gone bad...

Dave

[d_goldsmith 1]

I just watched it. That's pretty sad. Especially all the comments of people saying it was funny.

I've got this really hardcore group of gaurdian angels that need a free paid vacation.
~Dan Osman

[zoobrothertom 5]

Hey Tom,

You're spot on about how it's viewed by jumpers. Trying to limit it's distribution may be futile. However, I don't think anyone should knowingly pass it on to a whuffo.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[Ghetto 0]

nobody should pass it on, period. It's not your footage to pass on, even to another jumper. Let them get it from the source.

Of course that's just a pipe dream, some newb skydiver fresh into AFF probably already got it from SDM and is posting it on YouTube or selling it to the media as we speak...

Web Design
Cleveland Skydiving
"Hey, these cookies don't taste anything like girl scouts..."

[Mikeeey 0]

You should take it off the server completely, its still easy to find using the filename in this thread and the normal SDM file structure

[Mac 1]

Dont you think that this would have been better to send as a PM?

Nice work........

[dbrutherford 0]

I saw it... I don't think it should be out there for the whole world to see. But I do think newbies should be shown some carnage to maybe help them take things slow.

I am not a BASE Jumper but I do plan to do it. I do know the risks and realise that you gotta take things slow and to get the propper training and advice from the experienced jumpers.

DBR