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170' freefall

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The linked video is of legendary British jumper Dan The Man (DTM) shot by Nick Ridden on the 11 Nov 06 whilst DTM was touring Australia.

This 'span' (186') Freefall completed/earned him his Aussie base number.

The video can be downloaded from here: http://www.basejump.org/video/dtm.WMV

It is less than 500 KB so shouldn't take long to download.

We started calling him a 'dirty high puller' after this one.

Watching from the top it looked very scary as it was over the sand, not the water.

Personally, I could not justify a split second deployment hesitation and the resulting impact and injury. (Long winded way of saying I'm a pussy.)

Respect to DTM, Dwain, Tom B and anyone else with that level of skill and commitment.

Cheers,

Ken
AB#78 IB#751 BF#???
[email protected]

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Personally, I could not justify a split second deployment hesitation and the resulting impact and injury. (Long winded way of saying I'm a pussy.)



Hi Ken

As you said, this is a personal decision. I think your logic is very sound and your outcome (still alive and kicking) confirms this. Well done.

r.e. freefalling over the sand, I had planned to do it as a pioneering effort, but some blond girl (:P) got wind of this and beat me to it. Given that it was already done, I decided that being a sheep was not worth the risk at the time.

I have freefallen the other side over water a few times.

r.e. the attached photo's:
- "ssfrapin" shows what can happen with a hesi / deployment. If the hesi delayed deployment by just one partial second later . . . . . . . anyway, you get the picture.

note that this position is "forward b bending (flexion)" - this is the agent/event/scenario that leads to most spinal injuries in the surf. The other is "Vertical compression". In a deployment hesi on a low pull, you are likley to get an inverse of VC. i.e. natural response is to lift legs which results in initial impact forces on the bottom / coccyx area. This force is then transferred up the spine. The stronger the force the more likely it is to dissipate to upper levels of the spine. The end result is vertabra / spinal cord damage in the upper spine / neck area. There is also possibliy of severe whip lash and/or broken neck (the weight and momentum of the head will force it to keep going downwards when the rest of the body is stopped by the ground - hence the neck will either compres severely. Or if the head is not perfectly in line with the spine and the impact force, then it will bend.

- "dp turn" shows a person who did a 180 turn from exit to deployment on a freefall off the same object - unintentionally. That is just an interesting pic. But it shows how very competent people can stuff up simple things. I have done it. DW has done it. You too can do it!!!!!!

Modern jumpers make the statement that they understand and accept the risks. The reality is that most don't. They have an uneducated perception of what they think the risk is. There is a vast gap between perception and reality for many people.

The other thing is this. Just because the end result of an act is successful, it does not mean by default that it will always remain so. This is exactly the philospohy behind that infamous game called "Russian Roullette". The only thing that changes is the number of bullets and the number of chambers.

Low freefalls over hard earth will contribute to the number of people with quad/para plegia. Possibly death too.

If you keep doing the low freefalls, you are using up those empty chambers. The bullet is coming. If not the next jump, then the one after. If not you, it will be your jumping buddy.

People also have to remember that they are people, prone to errors, mistakes. Keep pulling the trigger and eventually you may turn up with a hesi, or something else.

That is reality.

I am not against low freefalls.

I am opposed to the fact that many people think they are OK for anyone to do and for them to be done on a regular basis.
I have a problem that many people who do them, do so without much understanding.
I have a problem that many people do not have a true understanding of the risks involved, the margin for error, the possible outcomes. It is also concerning that they are led by people with similar attitudes, experience, and understanding. The blind leading the blind.

In the end, Ken says it best when he said he could not justify the possible end result.

That is risk managment.

That is longevity.

That is having respect for your life and the nature of the beast you are playing with.

Think.

Plan.

Act.

Review.

Make the right decision.

Your choice.

Your life.
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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The linked video is of legendary British jumper Dan The Man (DTM)



snigger, snigger. Oh stop it....purleeese.....no more, please no more....

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Right on Ken! Us legends have got to stick together!
Wait till i tell my mother that i'm a 'legend,' i think the conversation will probably go:-
"Mother, did you know that i'm a legendary base jumper?"
"Daniel, don't you think you're getting a bit old to be jumping off of buildings in the middle of the night?"
"Yes mother..."

laters.
DTM. (legend.)
Ps.
Good advice from mr TVPB.
Usual bollox from Sabre 210.

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You call your mom Mother?

I thought only Norman Bates did that..... Although he was talking to himself I suppose....:S
The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

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what do you think about freefalling 170'?
let me know

pana


My thoughts;

I'd first feel REALLY good about freefalling 180 - 200' multiple times and static lining 140ish feet multi times (to build good canopy control) before thinking about 170' FF's.

Be systematic with your approach to low altitude BASE. Don't rush it. Work down on your altitude slowly. Then you'll figure out your comfort zone.


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You call your mom Mother?



Just because you colonialists can't spell properly and choose to ignore the Queens English, it does not mean you can . . . . . . . .

For your information, the shorthand version of Mother is Mum, not Mom!!!


:P
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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Ah Mr Begic,

How refreshing it always is to read the perennial cry of a retired jumper pining for the halcyon days and at the same time disparaging 'modern jumpers' and blowing their own horn. I think it requires significant literary skill to be able to achieve that difficult task.

Sarcasm aside, I wonder what basis you are using to make your rather auspicious claims about the ostensible scourge of ‘modern jumpers’. Your post contains many assumptions, the most notable being that modern jumpers don’t understand the risks of BASE. The obvious implication here is that only you and your cronies do. Rather a bold statement. It may be true of some, but those people have a habit of dying or smashing themselves rather quickly so I don’t think it fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

Anyway, the times they are a changing but people will continue to push the limits. You will say they are being silly and uniformed while telling stories of your bold feats (but of course that was different) at the same time. It’s all one big circle I guess.

Jesse.

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i was just curious how long that "Dan The Man Blows Goats" sticker has been in the window at the Horner.:P

that IS legendary!:)

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I wonder what basis you are using to make your rather auspicious claims about the ostensible scourge of ‘modern jumpers’.



while Tom might have a different opinion, let me take a shot at it...

at the risk of annoying NickDG, let's look at skydiving. people get all pumped and excited, and attack the sport. they buy all kinds of gear. spend loads on training. but what happens? most leave after a few years.

USPA always cites statistics that the average jumper has only been in the sport a few years. thus, anyone who has been in the sport 10 years is a major statistical anomaly.

one definition of learning is "a change in behavior resulting from experience." the same folks will tell you learning requires "time and opportunity." jumpers who leave the sport after a few years do not have the "time and opportunity" to collect lot of experiences from which to learn.

how does this apply to BASE?

many attack it with blind enthusiasm. a long "apprentice" phase under a mentor used to burn off this enthusiasm... not anymore.

statsistically, most jumpers are probably relatively new to the sport. ask any of them, and they will claim they understand the risks. (and maybe they do.) it's just that everyone says that before suffering an ugly learning experience.

heck, that's what I would have said. then I had teachers die. I was there when a friend lost a limb. I've also participated in several "rescues" of injured jumpers.

I have seen jumpers hide how some injuries occur to protect family, jobs, etc.

after a handful of these rather unglamorous experiences, I realized I really DID NOT understand the risks... there is a huge difference between imagining and experiencing... sad.

folks like Tom A., and Tom B., work hard to educate newbies to help prevent more pain.

please keep in mind, the longer someone has been in this sport, the longer they have suffered. it's a ying/yang thing. don't merely focus on the cool stuff.

talk to a mother who has lost a son. talk to a daughter who has lost a father. notice people with permanent limps. they have as much to offer as a video.

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It’s all one big circle I guess.



ah, so true...
and impatience shortens the cycle.
I'd rather see it broken! (but I'll settle on seeing it extended...)
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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after a handful of these rather unglamorous experiences, I realized I really DID NOT understand the risks... there is a huge difference between imagining and experiencing... sad.



I've seen a bunch of people say that they thought they understood the risks but they didn't until a bunch of bad stuff happened. I think there is a difference between "understanding the risks" and facing the risk and keeping a careful eye on it. It sounds like that is the issue some of you have.

Every time I've jumped a solid object, when I pitch, I'm thinking in the back of my mind "ok, be ready for a 180". I'm not thinking "ok, I might have a total mal", but I still know it's a possibility.

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I don't mean to seem cocky, or like I'm not afraid of death, and my views will obviously evolve since I'm very new to the sport, but I truly believe that I "understand" and face/keep-an-eye-on the risk.

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I don't mean to seem cocky, or like I'm not afraid of death, and my views will obviously evolve since I'm very new to the sport, but I truly believe that I "understand" and face/keep-an-eye-on the risk.



pretty much, everyone thinks they understand...
and that is a good chunk of the problem.

until you watch a friend relearning to walk, being hurt but still carrying out a fallen comrade, or self rescue on a solo, do you really know?
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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I don't mean to seem cocky, or like I'm not afraid of death, and my views will obviously evolve since I'm very new to the sport, but I truly believe that I "understand" and face/keep-an-eye-on the risk.



In your 49 jumps you seem to have accumulated the experience of a lifetime. Your posts are a clear sign of this experience.
You know you have a problem when maggot is the voice of reason at the exit points

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pretty much, everyone thinks they understand...



It seems with every jump I do the risks become less clear to me.

I used to say "whatever happens, no regrets" before my early jumps. What a load of shit. You best believe I'm gonna regret ever coming close to a parachute the day I don't use one succesfully.

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This dilemma is more about human nature. You'll never appreciate the risk until something bad happens to you. And after you heal, time softens the blow, and you find yourself back on the edge for more.

Usually once or twice a day, if I run a few feet, or just take a misstep, I'm painfully reminded of a BASE jump I made 17 years ago that shattered both my legs. A year of recovery taught me no BASE jump is worth that amount of pain. But, there I was jumping again as soon as the plaster came off. Is that me being stupid, or is BASE jumping actually that big of a draw? I didn't give in to the automatic impulse to quit as almost everyone jumping at that time was seriously injured at some point. It was the price you paid.

A good thing that's happened in the sport is while the fatality rate rises with the number of participants the overall injury rate is not as horrific as it once was. It's because the gear is better and the jumpers are better. Today's new BASE jumper at twenty jumps is a hundred times more competent and better equipped than I was at a hundred BASE jumps.

I also think, for newer jumpers, the sport is easier to walk away from now. You almost never heard of anyone quitting after someone went in, and now you hear it quite a bit. I think the reason is today's jumper just isn't as heavily invested in the sport. What I mean is when BASE was new, we worked hard to get the sport accepted when all around we were being dissed as crazy, or called worse things, and sometimes even losing an Instructor's slot because some DZO hated BASE jumping and thereby hated you.

It sounds strange now, but quitting BASE in those days was like waving a white flag of surrender. It was crawling back to the DZ with your tail between your legs, and not many were willing to do that. Nowadays, you take a course, buy state of the art gear, and the first time you stub a toe your gear's for sale . . .

In 1978 PARACHUTIST magazine asked Carl Boenish were he saw BASE jumping being by the year 1985, and he didn't even come close to being right. If you asked me in 1985 were BASE jumping would be in the year 2006 my answer would have wildly missed the mark too. I'm now resigned to knowing BASE isn't going to reach its potential anytime within my lifetime. I know we were right about BASE jumping, and I know the sport will be seen as one of the coolest things we humans invented in the 20th Century. I just wish people now would realize the major threat to BASE jumping comes not from outside the sport, but from inside. The world has accepted BASE jumping, the war is over, and we won. Now we just need to start acting like it . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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The world has accepted BASE jumping, the war is over, and we won.



I am curious on how you feel that the world has accepted BASE? AS a whole? what about the media? individual?

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Now we just need to start acting like it . . .



Very true.
Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

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As I stated "I'm very new to the sport".

And I have the experience of my lifetime, which you know nothing about, so why comment?

It normally takes a lot more to get me riled up, especially on the internet. :$

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Are you talking handheld or stowed?


would you go stowed off 170ft?
did you ever see ANY going stowed off 170ft?

i guess not:P

HH it is....

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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Eat a dick.



I wonder if that qualify as a PA.

You have no problem recommending a canopy even though you 1. have nil experience, 2. have nil experience on that canopy"

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2532213;#2532213

You show how to pack a PC all wrong and ready for disaster:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2515263;#2515263

Not to talk about the other dozen mindless questions like the break cord thread.

You got no experience whatsoever, an attitute and you are jumping solid objects and giving advices.

Do you see where I am coming from?
You know you have a problem when maggot is the voice of reason at the exit points

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I've seen a bunch of people say that they thought they understood the risks but they didn't until a bunch of bad stuff happened. I think there is a difference between "understanding the risks" and facing the risk and keeping a careful eye on it. It sounds like that is the issue some of you have.


i have mates that were werry aware about risks they jumped in and then still as they got hurt,it came out of nowere..

Many(myself inkluded) think/thourght they knew about risk when we entered this sport,most of us were/are wrong we has/will learn...

Dont be offencive to posts telling against what you think is right,you may not agree but some people has done the walk,some are doing it right now,at some point you will if you stay long enough..
Each person has his/hers experience of this kind of life(i rather see BASE as a lifestyle than a sport/game),it might wont fit on you,but 95% of all jumpers will/has experienced above..

So why all this speaking about risktaking/meassuring?
becourse the day the sh!t hits the fan you will be more prepared.. belive me,you WILL loose freinds in this sport,you WILL get injuryed in this sport,You WILL experience that "regulary" people(even family) walk away from you as they cant take the risk of loosing you to this "game"...

I dont know about your lifeexperience BUT i know im not done learning yet,neither are you...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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i dont normally waste my time responding to your posts, its generally humorus enought to let you hang yourself on your own, but here we go..

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. It sounds like that is the issue some of you have.

good to know youre above that...

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Every time I've jumped a solid object, when I pitch, I'm thinking in the back of my mind "ok, be ready for a 180". I'm not thinking "ok, I might have a total mal", but I still know it's a possibility.


every single jump you make, you should be readay for that 180... and a total mal? you should have triple checked your bridle routing well before you even got to the object... like when you packed it..

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I don't mean to seem cocky, or like I'm not afraid of death, and my views will obviously evolve since I'm very new to the sport, but I truly believe that I "understand" and face/keep-an-eye-on the risk.


no offense man, but everyone thought that at one point or another... the old "i know it all and it cant happen to me...im looking out for it.." defense...
good luck with that...

you said it yourself "my views will obviously evolve"
they will.. mine sure did...

when is the last time you witnessed a fatality?
when is the last time you watched someone hook the piss out of thier canopy, directly into the ground?

ever participated in a rescue? of someone you know?

whens the last time you had a 180? ever? on anything besides the perrine?
how many of you jumps are not at the perrine?

and do you have any clue as to how smart base_rigger is? almost on level with 460.. which is dammned impressive... maybe you should think before you tell someone to "eat a dick".


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