chuckakers 370 #1 May 28, 2011 I couldn't disagree with this more if you paid me. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=754 If you need a f*cking beep in your ear to help you land your parachute, sell your rig before you hurt someone. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #2 May 28, 2011 Us youngins just looooove our electronics Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #3 May 28, 2011 What a great marketing/advertising theme for Duracell... IF YOYR BATTERY DIES ~ SO DO YOU! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC1 0 #4 May 28, 2011 I have no problem using a speedometer in my car although I can drive just fine without one. An audible is no different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #5 May 28, 2011 Not trying to put words in Chucks mouth, but I don't think it's the use of an audible he's referring to... More along the lines of relying on it to set your pattern turns. It's funny he brings this up because just last night I was perusing the Para-Gear catalog and the earplug audible with the voice commands to turn downwind, base and final had me literally laughing out loud...I wondered how many users of that item go ass over appetite on landing because it doesn't tell them to flare! I wonder how many skyjumpers just sit out in the LZ baking in the hot sun because their beeper has no additional commands: 'Get Up - Walk In - Hand Rig To Packer' ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #6 May 28, 2011 Quote Not trying to put words in Chucks mouth, but I don't think it's the use of an audible he's referring to... More along the lines of relying on it to set your pattern turns. It's funny he brings this up because just last night I was perusing the Para-Gear catalog and the earplug audible with the voice commands to turn downwind, base and final had me literally laughing out loud...I wondered how many users of that item go ass over appetite on landing because it doesn't tell them to flare! I wonder how many skyjumpers just sit out in the LZ baking in the hot sun because their beeper has no additional commands: 'Get Up - Walk In - Hand Rig To Packer' Hi T You can't fool us.We googled paragearLooked up instrumentsFirst one was a N3, did a lot of stuff, a lot of times , for a lot of different reasons. I'm guessing this isn't the only multi function gizmo paragear is selling. I can not tell a lie. I placed a order for the first one I saw "the N3". I think everyone should run out and buy one before their sold out. Twardo you SOB You just cost me some $$$. How much was that thing anywayWhen to flare? The boss reminded us of the optional item to handle that.The rock on the end of the rope.One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC1 0 #7 May 28, 2011 QuoteNot trying to put words in Chucks mouth, but I don't think it's the use of an audible he's referring to... More along the lines of relying on it to set your pattern turns. You mean like relying on your speedometer as you drive across town so you don't get a ticket for speeding? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #8 May 28, 2011 Quote More along the lines of relying on it to set your pattern turns. If that's what he's saying then he's flat out wrong. BG is talking about using an instrument to fine-tune the process of pattern flying and NEVER says to rely on it. Quite the contrary: QuoteAbove all else, your eyes are your default, and you can veto what the audible is telling you, or not telling you. I am sensing a lot of resistance to change and new ideas here amongst the old timers. Gentlemen, things will always be changing. There is no point in crying about it."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #9 May 28, 2011 QuoteQuote Gentlemen, things will always be changing. There is no point in crying about it.that's the entire point of Being an old timer... It's been happening in general society for generations, it's their job to complain about loud music, fast bikes noisy equipment, and young guns who is likely die or get seriously injured contrary to their warningsYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #10 May 28, 2011 Quote Quote Not trying to put words in Chucks mouth, but I don't think it's the use of an audible he's referring to... More along the lines of relying on it to set your pattern turns. You mean like relying on your speedometer as you drive across town so you don't get a ticket for speeding? I just go with the flow, haven't gotten a ticket in 25 years. But then again I kinda know what 30-40-50 mph feels and looks like...I like to keep my eyes out and looking for the dolts that are staring at the gauges and screwing up traffic. You do understand that the brain beeper is a pressure sensor right? ~ it's not an 'exact' measurement...guess it doesn't need to be, since I hear canopy flying is more art than science anyway. Hey, if ya really need a little voice to whisper when to turn downwind, base & final then by all means spend the money! ...don't depend on 'it' is the mantra of the day but give it time, if it's how ya learned - you tend to depend on it, then it becomes a crutch. One little EMP and people will be landing all over the county! To be honest, seeing what some of you people willingly spend large hunks of money on, is giving me some interesting idea$ for $ome absolutely necessary must have gizmos! Carry on, I'll be inventing out in the shop. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #11 May 28, 2011 QuoteIf you need a f*cking beep in your ear to help you land your parachute... We need a GPS to determine our spot. We need an audible altimeter to tell us when to pull. We need an AAD to deploy our reserve. And now we need more ear beeps to fly a landing pattern. I suppose it was inevitable. I can see it now: S&TA: "Why did you turn into that other jumper and almost collide with him?" Jumper: "Because my ear beep told me it was time to turn final!" I eagerly await the invention of the electronic parachute packing machine. In a few more decades we'll be like that first monkey shot up into space on a rocket, strapped down and helpless, while automated gizmos took care of everything. Yeah, that'll be fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #12 May 29, 2011 I am sensing a lot of resistance to change and new ideas here amongst the old timers. Gentlemen, things will always be changing. There is no point in crying about it. Pause for a moment Doc, and think just how ludicrous that statement really is...~the 'old timers' have seen, and been a part of that change for a very VERY long time...The 'old times' aren't crying about change...we're snickering at the latest batch of cocksure drones strutting around, trying to invent a wheel. Too busy to figure out...Heck they rode IN on one. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #13 May 29, 2011 When to flare? The boss reminded us of the optional item to handle that. The rock on the end of the rope. Kinda sucks if ya got too long a rope though... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Throttlebender 0 #14 May 29, 2011 In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites muff528 3 #15 May 29, 2011 Quote ...... To be honest, seeing what some of you people willingly spend large hunks of money on, is giving me some interesting idea$ for $ome absolutely necessary must have gizmos! Carry on, I'll be inventing out in the shop. This stuff ain't nuthin' compared to some of the ridiculous (and ridiculously expensive) "must have" doo-dads peddled to some big bucks audiophiles. At least this skydiving stuff does something. But I'd prefer to have my ears open for what's going on around me, especially in the landing pattern. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #16 May 29, 2011 Quote In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now Yeah...only to show up 5 days later poolside in Vegas with a vodka rocks, 50K in Russian gold and a bikini model next to 'em! ~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid! (you can quote me on that) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #17 May 29, 2011 Quote In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now At least the old farts know how to spell "ice floe". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybill 18 #18 May 29, 2011 Hi Chuck, What a hoot!! Do they make one with a GPS interface too!!?? Just a waste of good Beer $$. If'n ya' need one of those gadgets that bad, yer jez a krater lookin' for a place ta' make a divit!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #19 May 29, 2011 QuoteI am sensing a lot of resistance to change and new ideas here amongst the old timers. Gentlemen, things will always be changing. There is no point in crying about it. Yep. You are exactly right, Doc. What's changed is the willingness to listen and learn. Young jumpers don't handle that very well these days. Yes, it's a changed skydiving world....unfortunately, not a change for the better. With respect to the thread topic, what's changed is the willingness to let the marketeers decide for you on what you need and want. I guess it relieves one of the burden of critical thinking and having common sense. I hate that it is turning me sour. It almost gets to the point of "why waste your breath when they are not able to listen and learn?" Well, it hasn't quite gone that far for many of us as yet....we old farts still keep on plugging away and hoping for the best. I don't see that changing.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #20 May 29, 2011 QuoteWhat's changed is the willingness to listen and learn. Young jumpers don't handle that very well these days. Indeed. Using an audible for freefall is one thing. There are indications that you're getting low, or to break off altitude in frefall, but they are suttle; the passage of time, and the earth getting 'bigger' (and yes, that is suttle until you get musg closer). Also, when you factor in that freefall itself has become an 'activity' and that most jumpers are with others and invovled in 'something', it's easy to see how a jumper could become distracted, and how an audible could be of service. However, under canopy is another story. There's nothing to do but fly your canopy, and between the wind and much easier to process sight picture, it is easy to learn to fly your canopy without the aid of a beeper. It does require thought, planning and practice in the early days, but that eventually gives way to habit and instinct. In this case, I think the ship has already sailed on people doing it manually, and I think Brian Germain has picked up on this. Now we're to the point where it's either everyone does it poorly, or they use beepers. I don't think his siggestion is based on the thought that beepers are the 'correct' way to go, just that beepers are the 'correct' way to go for us, in the situation we're in now. Let's face it, Brian is a smart guy, and has been teaching canopy control for many years. If he thought a beeper was the way to go from the start, he would have invetned one (or got someone to invent one) for that very purpose. Freefall beepers have been around forever (Paralert anyone?) and making the mental jump to using one under canopy wouldn't have been that hard if he thought it had value. Beyond that, under canopy beepers have been out for a couple years now, yet he (Brian) hasn't come out to endorse them until now. Like I said, it all leads me to believe that this is a reaction to our current situation, not him endrosing this as the best way to go if all other things were equal. All things are not equal, and with the minset and abilities of the jumpers already among us, he seems to think this is an answer, and even though I dsiagree with the idea of the devices all together, on the grounds that I presented, combines with Brians intelligence and experience, I'll go along with his idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #21 May 29, 2011 Really. I see it as more proof that there are too many stupid fuckers flying around under parachutes who would be better off staying on the golf greens or bowling alley!you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #22 May 29, 2011 i'd be kinda nervous about anything which tells me to "turn base ,Now".. or "turn final NOW".... since all it seems to take into account is the jumpers' altitude... or am i missing something?? ... there is sooo much OTHER stuff which needs to be considered.. prior to making such a move.. winds... traffic. obstacles. congestion In the Pattern,,,, so for solo H & Ps where you're the only canopy in the air... OK..but i'll stick with my eyes, my brains, my instincts and my willingness to yield the right of way....ps. never have CRIED over change... even though some change seems to be Only to "upset the status quo simply for the sake of having something different" Lots of changes to the sport have been GOOD ones.... and we ARE now in a place where most things are fairly "idiot proof"...( Ok/... maybe EXCEPT for cameras) i've always been a guy who feels,, " if it AiN'T broke.... don't fix it"... jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Throttlebender 0 #23 May 29, 2011 Quote Quote In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now Yeah...only to show up 5 days later poolside in Vegas with a vodka rocks, 50K in Russian gold and a bikini model next to 'em! Well, if that's how it's gonna go, please take me with youAnd John, good catch on the spelling. I don't think I've ever seen that before. ~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid! (you can quote me on that) Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dean358 0 #24 May 29, 2011 Quotei'd be kinda nervous about anything which tells me to "turn base ,Now".. or "turn final NOW".... since all it seems to take into account is the jumpers' altitude... or am i missing something?? ... there is sooo much OTHER stuff which needs to be considered.. prior to making such a move.. winds... traffic. obstacles. congestion In the Pattern,,,, +1000 !www.wci.nyc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 197 #25 May 29, 2011 S'ok Chuck. I just read a thread that talks about wind noise being a distraction...lol.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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airtwardo 6 #10 May 28, 2011 Quote Quote Not trying to put words in Chucks mouth, but I don't think it's the use of an audible he's referring to... More along the lines of relying on it to set your pattern turns. You mean like relying on your speedometer as you drive across town so you don't get a ticket for speeding? I just go with the flow, haven't gotten a ticket in 25 years. But then again I kinda know what 30-40-50 mph feels and looks like...I like to keep my eyes out and looking for the dolts that are staring at the gauges and screwing up traffic. You do understand that the brain beeper is a pressure sensor right? ~ it's not an 'exact' measurement...guess it doesn't need to be, since I hear canopy flying is more art than science anyway. Hey, if ya really need a little voice to whisper when to turn downwind, base & final then by all means spend the money! ...don't depend on 'it' is the mantra of the day but give it time, if it's how ya learned - you tend to depend on it, then it becomes a crutch. One little EMP and people will be landing all over the county! To be honest, seeing what some of you people willingly spend large hunks of money on, is giving me some interesting idea$ for $ome absolutely necessary must have gizmos! Carry on, I'll be inventing out in the shop. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 May 28, 2011 QuoteIf you need a f*cking beep in your ear to help you land your parachute... We need a GPS to determine our spot. We need an audible altimeter to tell us when to pull. We need an AAD to deploy our reserve. And now we need more ear beeps to fly a landing pattern. I suppose it was inevitable. I can see it now: S&TA: "Why did you turn into that other jumper and almost collide with him?" Jumper: "Because my ear beep told me it was time to turn final!" I eagerly await the invention of the electronic parachute packing machine. In a few more decades we'll be like that first monkey shot up into space on a rocket, strapped down and helpless, while automated gizmos took care of everything. Yeah, that'll be fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #12 May 29, 2011 I am sensing a lot of resistance to change and new ideas here amongst the old timers. Gentlemen, things will always be changing. There is no point in crying about it. Pause for a moment Doc, and think just how ludicrous that statement really is...~the 'old timers' have seen, and been a part of that change for a very VERY long time...The 'old times' aren't crying about change...we're snickering at the latest batch of cocksure drones strutting around, trying to invent a wheel. Too busy to figure out...Heck they rode IN on one. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #13 May 29, 2011 When to flare? The boss reminded us of the optional item to handle that. The rock on the end of the rope. Kinda sucks if ya got too long a rope though... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Throttlebender 0 #14 May 29, 2011 In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #15 May 29, 2011 Quote ...... To be honest, seeing what some of you people willingly spend large hunks of money on, is giving me some interesting idea$ for $ome absolutely necessary must have gizmos! Carry on, I'll be inventing out in the shop. This stuff ain't nuthin' compared to some of the ridiculous (and ridiculously expensive) "must have" doo-dads peddled to some big bucks audiophiles. At least this skydiving stuff does something. But I'd prefer to have my ears open for what's going on around me, especially in the landing pattern. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #16 May 29, 2011 Quote In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now Yeah...only to show up 5 days later poolside in Vegas with a vodka rocks, 50K in Russian gold and a bikini model next to 'em! ~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid! (you can quote me on that) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 May 29, 2011 Quote In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now At least the old farts know how to spell "ice floe". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 18 #18 May 29, 2011 Hi Chuck, What a hoot!! Do they make one with a GPS interface too!!?? Just a waste of good Beer $$. If'n ya' need one of those gadgets that bad, yer jez a krater lookin' for a place ta' make a divit!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #19 May 29, 2011 QuoteI am sensing a lot of resistance to change and new ideas here amongst the old timers. Gentlemen, things will always be changing. There is no point in crying about it. Yep. You are exactly right, Doc. What's changed is the willingness to listen and learn. Young jumpers don't handle that very well these days. Yes, it's a changed skydiving world....unfortunately, not a change for the better. With respect to the thread topic, what's changed is the willingness to let the marketeers decide for you on what you need and want. I guess it relieves one of the burden of critical thinking and having common sense. I hate that it is turning me sour. It almost gets to the point of "why waste your breath when they are not able to listen and learn?" Well, it hasn't quite gone that far for many of us as yet....we old farts still keep on plugging away and hoping for the best. I don't see that changing.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #20 May 29, 2011 QuoteWhat's changed is the willingness to listen and learn. Young jumpers don't handle that very well these days. Indeed. Using an audible for freefall is one thing. There are indications that you're getting low, or to break off altitude in frefall, but they are suttle; the passage of time, and the earth getting 'bigger' (and yes, that is suttle until you get musg closer). Also, when you factor in that freefall itself has become an 'activity' and that most jumpers are with others and invovled in 'something', it's easy to see how a jumper could become distracted, and how an audible could be of service. However, under canopy is another story. There's nothing to do but fly your canopy, and between the wind and much easier to process sight picture, it is easy to learn to fly your canopy without the aid of a beeper. It does require thought, planning and practice in the early days, but that eventually gives way to habit and instinct. In this case, I think the ship has already sailed on people doing it manually, and I think Brian Germain has picked up on this. Now we're to the point where it's either everyone does it poorly, or they use beepers. I don't think his siggestion is based on the thought that beepers are the 'correct' way to go, just that beepers are the 'correct' way to go for us, in the situation we're in now. Let's face it, Brian is a smart guy, and has been teaching canopy control for many years. If he thought a beeper was the way to go from the start, he would have invetned one (or got someone to invent one) for that very purpose. Freefall beepers have been around forever (Paralert anyone?) and making the mental jump to using one under canopy wouldn't have been that hard if he thought it had value. Beyond that, under canopy beepers have been out for a couple years now, yet he (Brian) hasn't come out to endorse them until now. Like I said, it all leads me to believe that this is a reaction to our current situation, not him endrosing this as the best way to go if all other things were equal. All things are not equal, and with the minset and abilities of the jumpers already among us, he seems to think this is an answer, and even though I dsiagree with the idea of the devices all together, on the grounds that I presented, combines with Brians intelligence and experience, I'll go along with his idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #21 May 29, 2011 Really. I see it as more proof that there are too many stupid fuckers flying around under parachutes who would be better off staying on the golf greens or bowling alley!you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #22 May 29, 2011 i'd be kinda nervous about anything which tells me to "turn base ,Now".. or "turn final NOW".... since all it seems to take into account is the jumpers' altitude... or am i missing something?? ... there is sooo much OTHER stuff which needs to be considered.. prior to making such a move.. winds... traffic. obstacles. congestion In the Pattern,,,, so for solo H & Ps where you're the only canopy in the air... OK..but i'll stick with my eyes, my brains, my instincts and my willingness to yield the right of way....ps. never have CRIED over change... even though some change seems to be Only to "upset the status quo simply for the sake of having something different" Lots of changes to the sport have been GOOD ones.... and we ARE now in a place where most things are fairly "idiot proof"...( Ok/... maybe EXCEPT for cameras) i've always been a guy who feels,, " if it AiN'T broke.... don't fix it"... jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Throttlebender 0 #23 May 29, 2011 Quote Quote In some cultures, a few of you might be gettin set adrift on an ice flow about now Yeah...only to show up 5 days later poolside in Vegas with a vodka rocks, 50K in Russian gold and a bikini model next to 'em! Well, if that's how it's gonna go, please take me with youAnd John, good catch on the spelling. I don't think I've ever seen that before. ~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid! (you can quote me on that) Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean358 0 #24 May 29, 2011 Quotei'd be kinda nervous about anything which tells me to "turn base ,Now".. or "turn final NOW".... since all it seems to take into account is the jumpers' altitude... or am i missing something?? ... there is sooo much OTHER stuff which needs to be considered.. prior to making such a move.. winds... traffic. obstacles. congestion In the Pattern,,,, +1000 !www.wci.nyc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #25 May 29, 2011 S'ok Chuck. I just read a thread that talks about wind noise being a distraction...lol.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
