Throwing the other toggle

[Twoply 0]

I was reading this in another thread and have heard it recently that when you somehow have one toggle in hand and the other flapping behind you, that the thing to do is toss the other one. Seems just wrong to willingly give up all that control you have in that remaining toggle.

I recently had the misfortune of dropping a base toggle for the first time on accident. The thought of losing the other to maintain canopy flight symmetry never came to play. I landed just fine with one riser and one toggle.

Seems to me that it's just such an unnecessary practice that is very popular.

[Calvin19 0]

go try it at the potato, i would keep it. i through my other one when i blew a brake, and i hit the water (6'deep) with a rear riser flare, and i hit the bottom of the lake. HARD. you can figure out the flare with one brake and one riser. its not that bad.

-SPACE-

[mfob 0]

My first jump with a new Ace 260 from a 1500'tower went good. Although when I opened I noticed I was missing a right toggle. It was about 40 mph winds at about 400 and above. I wondererd as I was blown downwind like a feather if I should toss the left or keep it to have somewhat of a controled and dynamic turn to the left. I immidiately grabbed the right riser and steered to the right. After a while on the downwind leg I used the left toggle to turn it crosswind, then into the wind. When I got to the groung I pulled the right riser down nice and hard, and gave normal toggle imput to the left and landed as if I had both toggles in control.
So my take on the whole thing is in my certain situation, it would have been crazy to drop the left toggle and try to steer with the risers only. I was low enough trying to get under the wind and surely didnt want to lose anymore altitude with a riser turn. I landed good into the wind and got away clean. Keep it (in my opinion), it is at least half control, which is better than limited with just risers. Hope that helps. Peace Out.

[AdamLanes 1]

I once lost a toggle at the potato bridge, and I let go of the second toggle on purpose after thinking for a split second about how I would flair with one hand on a riser and the other one on a toggle. Afterwards almost everyone told me in the future it would be better to keep the second toggle. I think that is what I will do in the fututre if it happens again, but flair with BOTH my rear risers with the toggle just in my hand. I will definitely do a practice flair again before landing, but the one thing I will do differently is to just land in the water (site permitting), because it is VERY easy to stall a canopy with rear risers when you are not use to it!

[cincybase 0]

why were your toggles out on a 1500 ft tower?

Nothing I could do, I totally shit when I fart! -JK

[d_goldsmith 1]

When I was doing BASE specific canopy drills from CR library before getting in to BASE. I tried one riser one toggle landing on a Cruiselite 240. I havne't tried it with other canopies. My experience was that the toggle could only go down half way without turning. Maybe I needed to pull down on the riser more, but I was pretty sure if I pulled the riser more it would stall.

I would keep the toggle for setting up landing, but land with both rears.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I was reading this in another thread and have heard it recently that when you somehow have one toggle in hand and the other flapping behind you, that the thing to do is toss the other one. Seems just wrong to willingly give up all that control you have in that remaining toggle.

I'm wondering if your thread might be related to something I said about a past brake fire incident of mine. Remember two things, I had plenty of altitude and a familar object (Twin) when this brake fire happened to me. And two, I've got tons of time flying and landing canopies with my rears. At least in Twin on that jump it was like I was setting up for a landing like I was flying a Cessna on the beach and you only needed to milk the risers towards a stall every time you lose that seat of the pants feel. It was like a mini swoop except I lost my lift much sooner and at a higher air speed.

Now what would I do if a brake fired in the urban jungle or over a nasty boulder field off of an E? Well I'll tell you what I'll do when I get there (knock on wood I hope I never have to tell you). But remember on a brake fire scenario, the canopy is turning and your immediate response is to stop the turn. Then you need to fly towards some landing area. I agree with the fellow (d_goldsmith?) who said maybe "keep your toggles for the setup but use your rears to flare". For those people with little rear riser landing experience I think that is an excellent thing to keep in mind.

I don't want to sound like a hypocrite as I am anything but current on a BASE canopy. But people need to spend more time flying canopies in the skydiving environment experimenting with all forms of canopy flight control. That way when you need to whip a tool out of your toolbox because you need to do something with your canopy. You will know how to use that tool and you will know how you can control your canopy.

To the person who said "I would at least do a practice flare" is dead wrong. Learning what your canopy may or may not do for the first time on a BASE jump and you might be in for an unpleasant surprise. Besides since when do most BASE jumps offer you time to do canopy drills? Usually you're pretty low and only have time to set up before your flare.

Do whatever works for you. If holding on to that toggle is what works. Then do it. But figure this out before it takes you by surprise. I've already figured out that I'm comfortable flying my rears. But I haven't been in every scenario.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[recovercrachead 0]

I had a low res opening and one set of line twists at 300. I was going into trees so I found the lower set of trees then collapsed the bitch around 15 feet so I didn't keep going through them. Everything was done with the rear risers but it was still stowed. I didn't realize I didn't use the toggles to my rigger look at my rig. What does this mean, I dont know but I am alive

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[mfob 0]

I dont know what you mean. out from the grommets? They were out from the grommets, I was packed slider down. I only took a max of a 4 sec delay. so my brake lines were out if thats what you mean. I wasnt gonna take it low. First jump on a new canopy and not even tested the brake settings before, luckily they were perfect at the predetermined line previously drawn on by CR. So if you mean something else please elaborate. Bye...
PS if you read and understood the post, I never said what altitude I jumped from nor the altitude I pulled at. Conclusions arent well taken if the entire story isnt known. But thanks for the wonder of all of it. Should have been there, it was a good jump.

[leroydb 0]

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why were your toggles out on a 1500 ft tower?

He might not have went up the whole 1500 ft...

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Bazair2air 0]

I practiced riser only flying while skydiving earlier this year using a fairly large docile canopy. I pulled high for 20 jumps and ran it through every maneuver I could think of on the way down. It was four days worth in varying winds and it cost me about $400.00 in jump tickets.

Yeah, I know, it’s nothing but it's a start.

I had a toggle blow on my last BASE jump, I pitched the other one. It was always my plan should this occur. Meat and potatoes or nothin’. It was a two step, tip toe riser landing in zero wind.

Lucky? Maybe. I know that I wouldn’t want to do it 50 times to prove it was skill.

Canopy pilots like CanuckInUSA amaze me with their skill. I will never, ever be that good. However, I consider the practice as time and money well spent. I know for a fact that it paid for itself on this one jump alone.

[n_pertuset 0]

I was taught to keep the other other toggle if one fires. I agree with it. It gives you more control.

heh.. the only time it has happened to me so far... you were there :P. .. that was fun!

Nathan

Nathan

[RJmoney 0]

when i had mine fire i threw the other one. it seemed super simpler to just flare with both risers. if you give some front riser or a hook turn on landing (lz permitting) landing on rears is easy.

word to your mother,
RJ$$
BASE 1117

[Twoply 0]

The last blown toggle I saw happend to a young man that had vibrant skin, and calves that were so smooth, they looked like two boneless, skinless chicken breasts on his legs. That wasn't you was it?

[nicrussell 0]

reasons not to throw THE toggle that you have left:

1. you still have it.
2. you can still use it.
3. having it DOES NOT inhibit you from doing a double riser flare for landing.

the last and could be very crucial

4. you throw your ONLY TOGGLE and as its danglin behind you catches ANYTHING, you just hooked yourself into the ground. ouch. even a little snag and wham. hi ground, nice see'n you again. 911 please. just imagine it.

[chadkal 0]

I vote for flying with one toggle one riser,...I lost a toggle one time because I was wearing gloves. I decided to throw the other toggle. I won't do that again. The canopy went into a dive,...and yes you can have control with the riser,...the tail of the canopy is pitched up,...the only lines going to the tail are your brakes,...pulling on rear risers will pull the c and d lines,....which pulls down on the center of your canopy. This causes you to have the center pulled down, and the tail is up along with the nose. I know that some out there may have been able to pull of theis manuver,... but I think you have a much better chance with at least something still holding the tail. Maybe I would walk a little better now if I had held one toggle

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I am a greek midget

[base_rigger 0]

Keep it for turning as it's more effective than risers.

However flaring with one riser and the opposite toggle can be challenging; I'd land with both rears.

You know you have a problem when maggot is the voice of reason at the exit points

[AdamLanes 1]

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To the person who said "I would at least do a practice flare" is dead wrong. Learning what your canopy may or may not do for the first time on a BASE jump and you might be in for an unpleasant surprise. Besides since when do most BASE jumps offer you time to do canopy drills? Usually you're pretty low and only have time to set up before your flare.

Please elaborate why you are advocating against practice flares? Since I have never flared on rear risers while holding onto only ONE toggle, I would very much like to see the response before I try it for the first time on landing. I don't think I'll ever throw a toggle on purpose just for the practice thanks.

[tfelber 0]

I've landed on rears, toggles still stowed three times this summer. It's not really a big deal. However, I'm jumping a flik and it really takes an intentional effort to stall, even on risers. Being able to land on rear risers gives you another set of controls when you need it for whatever reason.

It's kind of the whole seat of the pants feel of flying without instruments, which is all canopy flying. You just get the feel and then you know.

That said, I have seen some pretty good canopy pilots stall their reserves and land flat on their backs, so maybe I'm just flying canopies that perform predictably on rears. I've flown and landed my skydiving canopy on rears also.

As for practicing, you don't have altitude to practice on a BASE jump. Leave that for skydiving. If your landing on rears on a BASE jump something went wrong and you need to be dealing with that, not doing practice flares. However, if your at the potato and doing intentional rear riser approaches that's another story and quite useful.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Please elaborate why you are advocating against practice flares?

If you've got the altitude then sure flare to your heart's contempt. It's just that many/most jumps just don't seem to have the time. You open, pop your toggles, setup and flare.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[d_goldsmith 1]

Not to mention if you're thinking you're high enough, you might underestimate the pressure your going to lose and then smoke in to the ground. (Another reason we use big ass parachutes)

[chadkal 0]

there is a huge differance in flying a canopy on rears when the brake lines are still stowed,( or even unstowed but through the rings) and flying on rears with toggles out,... once you have toggles trailing behind you,...you have changed the whole areodynamics of you canopy

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I am a greek midget

[Faber 0]

first time i lost a brake i through away the other,did a rearriser stall and broke my fib n tib,i have however lost toogles afterwards and even has one crossedtoogle( dooh ) i dont have a problem dropping them both or keeping one at this point..

I learned my lesson,and went practicing rearriser landings whith one or none toogles now i just do what i feel right at the point it happens

Stay safe
Stefan Faber