"Bad Ideas" list

[piisfish 135]

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and threading the legstraps through the buckles WITHOUT taking the rig off!!!!!

I haven't done this, yet, but don't see any problem with it. Can you clarify the issue with threading the legs straps while the rig is over your shoulders?

please re-read the 1st part of the sentence :

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Velcroing your cheststap for the climb without threading it properly and

which means the odds of forgetting to fasten the chest strap correctly are increased.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[d_goldsmith 1]

Can you explain that again. I don't understand.

It sounds like your saying that running the leg straps through the buckles increases your chance of incorrectly running the chest strap through it's buckle.

[piisfish 135]

Re-read the whole sentence.
It says its a bad idea to :
-Velcro chest strap without routing it properly
-Then get your legstraps on without taking the rig off.

If you take the rig off, you will obviously take the misrouted cheststrap off and then route it correctly(or get 1 more occasion to do so).
If you DO NOT take the rig off, chances are increased of keeping the misrouted cheststrap.

Capisce ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Ronald 0]

Reading the posts and reflecting on the original question: what about a "bad ideas" list.

At first glance, it seems good to have such a list. However, with some imagination (and worse, looking at the fatality list) such a list can be endless. And such a list can never be complete either. People allways find ways to make new mistakes. In short, such a list can be made up of one sentence: "don't be such a dumb-ass" or, said nicer: "avoid stupidity". In order to behave like that, seek good and proper tuition. A possible negative effect of the bad ideas list is that beginners will just look at the list and take off on their own. A real no - no to me.

I think it would be better to create a "how to practice safe base" list. Surely, a lot has been said already on how to do that.

Ronald

[jdatc 0]

Here's what I learned the hard way last friday. Something I will take with me forever.


When you see someone doing something contrary to safety in BASE, i.e. packing a pilot chute with a pull-up cord. Say Something, do something. Don't just think it. While we might be ultimately responsible for our own safety in BASE, you never know when a little insight may save someone's life.

And trust me, you will sleep better at night.

-Justin

[pocbase 0]

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I think it would be better to create a "how to practice safe base" list. Surely, a lot has been said already on how to do that.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful or anything, but what makes you think a list like that would prevent beginners from having a look at it and taking off on their own. I would be inclined to say that a "how to practice safe BASE" list would be even more of an incentive.
"Hey I can't find anyone to teach me but I've got a list here that tells me how to do it safely."
History has a way of repeating itself and there will be another 'Fred' or possibly even another pull up fatality. But as someone else said, if you see someone packing with a pull up, don't just think it's dumb, act, speak up and possibly prevent something stupid happening.
The last fatality proves in my opinion that it's going to take a bit more than the writing of lists.

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[Ronald 0]

Patrick,

There are no garantuees for the issue you raise. It iss just my gut feeling. Based on the idea that if you have a "bad idea" list it might lead someone to think that as long as he/she does nothing what is on the "bad idea" list, he/she will be OK. And then does something bad what is not on the list.

Anyway, we can allways compromise:
Do's & don'ts for base.

Ronald

[base736 0]

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In short, such a list can be made up of one sentence: "don't be such a dumb-ass" or, said nicer: "avoid stupidity".

... Which is like saying that the way to teach a math class properly is to get in front of your students and say, "Understand math." Then leave. Your suggestion is unhelpful at best. Any finite list will miss some points. But even a list which includes *only* "Using pull up cords or rubberbands as a PC packing aid", from the first post, would be already better than an ambiguous "avoid stupidity".

[460 0]

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Reading the posts and reflecting on the original question: what about a "bad ideas" list.

At first glance, it seems good to have such a list. However, with some imagination (and worse, looking at the fatality list) such a list can be endless. And such a list can never be complete either. People allways find ways to make new mistakes. In short, such a list can be made up of one sentence: "don't be such a dumb-ass" or, said nicer: "avoid stupidity". Ronald

They will always build a better idiot.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[crwper 7]

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2) using the white loop on the LRT system when going slider up.

Are you suggesting just sticking the nose of the toggle through the brake setting rather than using the white loop? Does this offer anything other than the obvious (but, I would argue, marginal) increase in security and savings in wear-and-tear from not involving the white loop where it's not necessary?

I believe the problem is that the extra bulk passing through the small metal ring (brake line plus white loop) can cause things to lock up, either before you release the toggle or after.

Michael

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I believe the problem is that the extra bulk passing through the small metal ring (brake line plus white loop) can cause things to lock up, either before you release the toggle or after.

I'm using a half mini rubber loop on the break ring for storing line excess _on_skydiving_rig_. I was so dumb to store excess on one side over the ring. I was fighting with it for minutes after opening. That side did not want to open... and I could not see why. It took weeks to understand what was wrong.

Pull-up cord might cause similar problems if its left there.

[RiggerLee 61]

The way you teach some one to do something is by showing them what they should do. For the most part it is a bad idea to use negative examples in primary instruction. There is too great a danger of confusing the issue. However as time goes on people need to be aware of the errors of the past. We have a very high turn over rate in skydiving and base jumping. Average life span of a skydiver is only about five years. I don’t have a number for base. I can tell you that the last boogie I went to in Moab had a Lot of new faces. I could count the people I knew on the fingers of one hand.
Any one that’s been in the sport long enough has watched one or more generations try to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty of things that do not seem unreasonable on the surface. I love getting a hold of a new rig or peace of gear that some one has built. It’s not unusual to find small and some times large mistakes. If we don’t remember and pass on these little details then yet another generation will have to go through a rather painful learning curve.
If you doubt this just wait. Sooner or later some one will try to explain to you why you should use the break mod slider up so that your canopy will fly the same as you are used to slider down or some other silliness.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[pocbase 0]

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For the most part it is a bad idea to use negative examples in primary instruction. There is too great a danger of confusing the issue.

generally to people wanting to get into BASE, the first advice they will get is to read the BASE Fatalities List. Are you saying this is a bad thing?

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[RiggerLee 61]

Telling them to read the list is'nt really about instruction. It's part of a reality check they need make in there decision to get involved in base.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[georgechurchill 0]

Miss-routing PC when getting ready to jump.

1) Putting your rig on when your pilot chute is already out of its BOC.
It can fall through a leg strap and you put it on without seeing the bridle routed through your leg strap.

2) If you don’t like stowing your PC in its BOC (because it can cause hessy if its been stuffed in BOC for a while) you should double check to ensure its routed cleanly from PC to pin or Velcro. When perched in jumping position, double check the bridle is routed cleanly from PC to pin not around you or the object... no. 101 on the list

George

http://georgechurchill.blogspot.com

[NickDG 23]

>>1) Putting your rig on when your pilot chute is already out of its BOC.
It can fall through a leg strap and you put it on without seeing the bridle routed through your leg strap.<<

George,

Some ideas are timeless. Even before we did anything stowed we rubber banded our hand held Hank 52's to the bottom of our containers and would never take it out [the pilot chutes] before putting a rig on.

The problem is how to tell someone that without sounding like an old fug . . .

NickD BASE 194

[tfelber 0]

I've put my rig on at the exit point with the PC laying on the ground several times. This is usually a HH jump using a large PC which I changed at the car just before the hike. My primary concern was snagging the PC and popping the pins.

I also have a practice of ensuring the bridle is clear from my hand to the bottom pin prior to exit, but I can see how this could get me in some serious trouble if I were alone, in a hurry, or didn't check my bridle each jump.

[NickDG 23]

Well, we readied our rigs to put on, the next logical step in our feeble minds - you can do it how you want.

Oh, and you didn't have Thread Thrus or B-12s.

NickD BASE 194

[magot 0]

ill give u a bad idea dont get all jacked up on coke and jump with a half once of blow on u because if u get cought
then u have to come down in jail the cops take your coke and they carge u with feloney pisesion besiseds the holw base thing by the way tony hows your leg i hope u are ave ing midgets massage it evry day

TOSS MY SALAD
I'm an invincible re-tarded ninja
derka derka bakala bakala muhammad jihad
1072

[tfelber 0]

Arrested, do you do illegal BASE jumps?

My leg is good. As a matter of fact I went to the Dr today and not only are they not doing a second surgery, but they moved my able to walk on it date from 3 mos to possibly 1.

I might be jumping by xmas!

[magot 0]

jump now u pussy just land on your other foot
i have to go out and party now so f all of u

TOSS MY SALAD
I'm an invincible re-tarded ninja
derka derka bakala bakala muhammad jihad
1072

[tfelber 0]

My other foot's f'd up too. I didn't even know 'til I tried to walk on crutches in the hospital of horror.

[bert_man 0]

oh, thats because i kept tripping over the damn railroad tracks while i was carrying it. Sorry 'bout that, i'm a clumsy fool

-Ghetto
"The reason death cannot frighten me, is because life has cured me of fear."
Web Design
Cleveland Skydiving

[base915 0]

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2) using the white loop on the LRT system when going slider up.

Are you suggesting just sticking the nose of the toggle through the brake setting rather than using the white loop? Does this offer anything other than the obvious (but, I would argue, marginal) increase in security and savings in wear-and-tear from not involving the white loop where it's not necessary?

In Apex's Owner's Manual, it specifically says not to use the white loop when going slider up, just to tuck it to the side. Why, I don't know. My ignorance shows. Can anyone chime in?

If you use the white loop when the break line is going through the keeper ring (slider up) the loop can jam against the ring when you try to release the breaks. This can be fixed but takes valuable seconds to do so.

M.

[d_goldsmith 1]

Thanks for that post.