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SullyFlyer

Iowa Skydivers Drunk and Rude @ Twin Falls Outback

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The BASE community can sit here and complain all day about situations like this, but nothing will change unless our "self-policing" sport does something about it.

Please post their names here so all will know who they are.
(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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Holy shit people they got drunk after their friend went in. Nobody else in Twin Falls is ever out of line? The manager, employees and customers at the Outback have so much political pull that they are somehow going to shut down base jumping there because someone got drunk and loud?

I understand that the base jumpers need to be respectful to the other residents but lets keep this in perspective. People get drunk and loud all the time for lesser reasons or none at all. Someones close friend dies and they get a bit loud in a restaurant and now you're calling for their names to be posted here to somehow blacklist them?

This thread may have some useful comments in it about what is necessary to keep your site open but it's timing is total fucking bullshit. Try to have the smallest amount of empathy for what these folks are going through and keep what is in reality a fairly small incident in perspective. You may do something you regret someday too. >:(


Skydive Radio

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You guys are getting way carried away with this. I've been patient up to this point and now I'm getting pretty pissed off. First of all from my friends who were at the bar that night what has been said has been slightly exaggerated. The bar itself was buying drinks for this group as well as others sitting at the bar. If they were being that grossly offensive I doubt the bar would have been buying them drinks. Second of all they all just lost a good friend right in front of their eyes just hours earlier. So some of them got too drunk and got cut off. They made an EFS toast and the owner talked to them, from what I've heard they respected the owner's wishes when talked too. This owner is going to see plenty of base jumpers in his time to not judge everyone. I doubt he's gonna turn down that much business because one group of people made an EFS toast after losing a friend that day.

And finally what pisses me off the most is that Sullyflyer, you had the nerve to post this the day after the accident. Where is your sympathy! Everybody grieves differently and this could have definitely waited a week. Even though some good information may have been posted, your original post is inflamatory and direct slam to those that lost their friend when you talk about how they disrespectfully mourned their loss. This post could have been written much differently as to not be so hurtful to those that are mourning. You could have made the same point and more people proabably willing to listen had you just discussed base jumping etiquette without an exaggerated attack on Iowa jumpers. Also anybody that was not at the bar that night has no right criticizing this group of people at all or even worse listing their names on here.
You should all be ashamed of your attitudes and this thread should be deleted. I'm done with this.



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Sorry to repeat your comments diverds. I was still writing mine when yours was posted. Oh well it needs to be said twice anyway.



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To elaborate on TB's post. The situation at the Outback was uglier then what TB described. When the owner is being ridiculed/threatened and has to get "dishwasher boy" to double as a Bouncer, you knew it's not a good thing (kudos to the one jumper, not from that crew, that realized later on how bad the situation was and apologized to the owner). I spoke with these guys that night before all of this went down and they appeared to be pretty good dudes. Unfortunately, they let their emotions get the best of them after having to pull their dead friend's body from the Snake River. It's important that as BASE Jumpers we show the surrounding community (anywhere) that we understand that this is an unfortunate part of the sport and that we can handle it appropriately. Since we have a theme going here, the Outback had another incident a couple of weeks ago where a jumper's girlfriend spewed copious amounts of chunks all over the bar. Now at the time I found this to be funny as shit and thoroughly enjoyed it in my drunken stupor. However, I know the owner was upset and the bartenders received a write up for serving this chick too much alcohol. The one bartender was a trooper and cleaned it up immediately w/out gloves or anything! I know when visiting Twin Falls to jump we are going to experience a lot of good times along with some bad ones. Just make sure when these occasions occur that you're able to keep yourself in check when visiting the local restaurants.

Jamie

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...names to be posted here to somehow blacklist them?



Blacklist? Never. However, if I happened to know any of the jumpers that were involved, I'd like to email or call them and explain that we all participate in a sensitive, misunderstood, and dynamic sport. Since BASE jumping is so controversial, it won't take many more incidents (jumping or otherwise) for the "safety freaks" to take our freedoms away. Keep in mind that the Potato Bridge is one of the few legal bridges in the world. That means you guys should behave better in Twin Falls than most other places. I'd also like to let the Iowa guys know that my friends and I would like to visit the Outback during our next TF visit, and I don't want to have to hide my "base jumper" clothing in order to get service.

It takes a long time to open new objects, but only a few short seconds to lose them.
(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

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Holy shit people they got drunk after their friend went in. Nobody else in Twin Falls is ever out of line? The manager, employees and customers at the Outback have so much political pull that they are somehow going to shut down base jumping there because someone got drunk and loud?



When local jumpers are sounding the alarm that we are on thin ice with our access to the bridge, why do you want to downplay that warning?


Bottom Line: We (all of us who like to jump off the bridge) need to shape up in terms of our conduct around here. This summer we've had a lot of bad publicity, several accidents, and lots of negative opinions in the local newspaper. We can ill afford any more negative publicity, hard feelings or any other kind of conflict with the local non-jumping populace.


Visitors can easily leave town after something like this. It's the folks who live here that have to show up later and apologize for their conduct, and try to make it right. You may think that "just this once" is "no big deal." When we have to try to defend, explain, or apologize for the conduct of group after group of out of town jumpers long after they've left town, it doesn't really feel that way.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Holy shit people they got drunk after their friend went in.



Getting drunk isn't the issue. Most of us who have been through this kind of situation have been double-fisted drunk that very night respectively... but that's not the issue. The issue is causing a "scene" in a local business establishment. One's buddy going in does not give one the right to infringe on someone's place of business. It's not the bartender's job to cut you off. If we are to be "trusted" to be responsible enough to jump from that bridge, don't you think we should be trusted to no be a public nusiance?



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Nobody else in Twin Falls is ever out of line?



Again, not the point. Nobody else in TF is going to lose the legal privellege [note: not a RIGHT] to jump from this object if they pop off to someone at the Outback. What we're looking at here are the fucking tonsils of a gift horse. Let's pull back and look at the bigger picture, shall we?



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People get drunk and loud all the time for lesser reasons or none at all. Someones close friend dies and they get a bit loud in a restaurant and now you're calling for their names to be posted here to somehow blacklist them?



I must have missed the "blacklist" comment in the threads above, but I agree that that's not a solution. The solution is to show that BASE jumpers care enough about our sport and our community to show the proper respect where it's due--including to local businesses, law enforcement, each other, and of course, our dead. This takes participation from EACH of us! Self-regulation is harder than it sounds.



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This thread may have some useful comments in it about what is necessary to keep your site open but it's timing is total fucking bullshit. Try to have the smallest amount of empathy for what these folks are going through and keep what is in reality a fairly small incident in perspective. You may do something you regret someday too.



The timing of the thread is only as bullshit as the incident at the Outback was. Speaking for myself and plenty of others who've responded to this thread, we DO HAVE EMPATHY. We have all lost more than one close friend to this sport and have had to deal with it, just as with this death. But please explain to me how these jumper's lack of respect for the entire BASE community gives them a get out of jail free card for being held accountable for their actions. TF is NOT A DROPZONE!

We ALL need to understand the dynamics of a BASE accident and be sensitive to it! The ripple effect of shit like this goes far beyond the Outback Steakhouse.

We're all sorry about losing a brother. Let's prove to the world that we can BE self-regulating. It's a lot different than "no rules," IMHO.
pope

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Well said Pope. Your thoughts are spot-on.

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To be a little more clear on what I think self-regulating could have looked like that night. Keep in mind I wasn't there so I don't really know what happened I'm only going off of hearsay and speculation.

The jumpers present should have recognized the problem and offered the guys a ride back to their hotel, since they were probably way too drunk to drive themselves. If the Iowa guys were very resistive to the suggestion, which one may be when they're drunk and dealing with shit they really don't want to be dealing with, the other jumpers present should have walked them outside, had a discussion, and made sure they made it home safely.

There's no reason for black listing, ass kicking, or any other violent reaction. These guys just needed the jumpers who were there to handle the situation directly. It should have never gotten to the level of the management of the Outback.

I bounce people at my friend's bar all the time. I don't make them feel bad or make threats. I just let them know it's time to go and I will be the one walking them out.

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If you tried that with me while I was drunk, it would probably become a fight. Depends on how smooth you are ;)

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I was present at the time of the fatality as well as being present at the time of the Outback incident. I apologized the very next day to both the new and old owner for what I had to do with that prior nights debauchery. I believe that what happened was nothing more than what to expect from a bunch of guys that watched a friend go in. The problem is that everything that happens in that 'Steakhouse', not bar, is oversimplied to one group known as Base jumpers. We all need to realize that it is a restaurant and a very fun place to get drink specials and discuss a lifetime of jumping stories. It's a $15 cab ride to Woodies for some late night partying where the 'F' bomb is actually encouraged and many over the hill fine ladies are willing to dance, drink, and cuss with you. I am not from TF, and have only been there twice, but I agree with walking cautiously at a place where everything bad gets dumped on the 'BASE' jumper. Cheers to you all... DOING MY FIRST 'A' THIS WEEKEND!!!!! :) ... and NOOOO I was not the one dancing dirty with a fine 50 yr old. She said she was 22.
-Taylor
"Can't plan fantastic!!!!!"

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it would probably become a fight.



I doubt it. That's why it would have to be the jumpers who dealt with it. Anyone else would result in a fight or at least some major intimidation and that's what it sounds like happened.

I believe most of us understand what it's like to lose a friend and what everyone was probably going through. It doesn't take much to deal with that type of situation.

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Beat me to it!!!

I can't believe that it took someone who is not a local to say that Woody's would be a much more appropriate place for heavy drinking.

If you have enough sense to BASE jump, then you should have enough sense to know the Outback is not the type of place for this type of behavior.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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agreed pope.

i still think it could have waited. i dont knw if the freinds participate in this forum, but it might just be one more thing they have to deal with last week.

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Also anybody that was not at the bar that night has no right criticizing this group of people at all



if you weren't there, you should NOT be defending them either...

things like EFS (S - is for SKYDIVING, right?) offend just as much as lighting up a joint. would you consider doing THAT in public?

if the bar was buying drinks, they were showing respect to our fellow jumpers. it doesn't sound like the jumpers demonstrated appreciation.

visitors wishing to jump any object should check with the locals, and understand the local environment. this thread was started by a local to help guide visitors. it's a shame he needed to remind us...
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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Please post their names here so all will know who they are.



That won't solve a goddamn thing just create more grief.

Tony and pope, well said.
You know you have a problem when maggot is the voice of reason at the exit points

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if you weren't there, you should NOT be defending them either...



My roommate was one at the bar that night whose word I take over anybody I don't know posting here. You are correct I wasn't there and there could have been stuff that he even didn't notice. I'm not going to defend the behavior and I should have left that whole part out of my previous comment. However, I will stand by everything else I said. The timing is bullshit, and the some of the comments made in these posts are utter bullshit. I don't know why I even wasted my time to go back into this thread. I guess if I could get one thing across it would be just to cut these guys a little bit of slack. They all just lost a good friend. Sometimes people make mistakes when emotions get the best of ya especially when you add alcohol. Lets move on people. I guess none of you guys have ever acted out of line for lesser reasons that sometimes come with typical drunken behaviour.
I understand everyone is worried about relations with this town to keep this bridge open, but there are more tactful and respectful ways of getting your point across like a few have been able to portray.



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Sometimes people make mistakes when emotions get the best of ya especially when you add alcohol. Lets move on people.



People make mistakes (I know I've made my share) and you're right people here need to move on. Instead of focusing on what happened at the Outback a few days ago, we need to focus on what needs to happen in the future and what we in the BASE community need to do is show more respect to all sites. I forget who said it (it could have been Pope or NickDG or maybe TomA), but regardless of who said it, it's worth repeating:

"It takes a lot of time to open up a new site and only seconds to close it".


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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understand everyone is worried about relations with this town to keep this bridge open, but there are more tactful and respectful ways of getting your point across like a few have been able to portray.



true.
it is all about respect.
by demonstrating respect, we will help to earn it.
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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agreed pope.

i still think it could have waited. i dont knw if the freinds participate in this forum, but it might just be one more thing they have to deal with last week.



That's really all I was trying to get across. The original poster could have been much more tactful with his timing and wording.


Skydive Radio

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I don't understand the "outrage" about the timing of this post. It appears that the post was not a personal attack, but a continuation of the discussion from a couple of weeks ago about similar incidents at the Outback. Obviously some people aren't receiving the information and waiting to discuss it further will not help the situation.

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That's really all I was trying to get across. The original poster could have been much more tactful with his timing and wording.



What a load of tree hugging, hippy shite. In fact, I think Mr SullyFlyer may actually have been Henry Kissinger in a previous life.

I just had to go back and carefully re-read what SullyFlyer put in his original post and consider it in the context that it was soon after this fatality.

And I still can't understand what all the skydivers are getting offended about.

BASE jumping is not skydiving.

BSBD.

if u want to run with the big dogs some times u have to eat dog shit- Sensei Maggot

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dude:|


BASE is not skydiveing, agreed. but shit man. people dont go in every day. close, lately, but still not every day.

-SPACE-

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Just a couple more thoughts to ponder...

You posted this less than 5 hours after his death. You advertise Iowa under the BASE forum. This is very selfish and thoughtless on your behalf. Instead of standing on a soap box, 5 hours after the loss of a life, you should have relaxed, focused on your true point and realized that this man probably has friends and family back home expecting a call after his jump. When that call is not received, many significant others keep a close eye on these threads for fear of terrible news. I pray that none of his friends or family found out about his death because you were hot under the collar and just HAD to post his death before the coroner even released the news to his immediate family.

I agree a different venue should have been chosen, or maybe permission asked to EFS. BUT... my other point to ponder is I know how absolutley shocked I was to get the news and I didn't see it happen before my eyes. I highly doubt that if I had just watched my dear friend whom I love as a brother, fight for his life, jump into the river to try and save him, and learn that he didn't make it...I highly doubt I would be thinking very clearly at all. When it came time of realizing I needed to eat and a drink sounds really freakin' good right now, my mind would say "I'm hungry. Oh look there's Outback."

Your comments give the perception that you have become very desensitized to death. If it's BASE jumping that has caused that, maybe you should consider taking a step back for a bit. I do hope you evaluate yourself some in that area.

No out of towner needs to be blacklisted or labeled. This sort of conduct will continue to occur, especially if you are the visitor...anywhere you go and tragedy occurs. Skydivers and BASE jumpers are fairly smart people. Rather than agreeing or disagreeing with each other over and over again about the conduct of Iowa jumpers, how about posting possible resolutions such as a TF BASE committee volunteer group. The group can put together welcome packets that inform or list the expectations. I've never been to TF, but other than Woody's is there a Skydiver/BASE restaurant close to the bridge so that jumpers can burn off their adrenaline?

So with all that said. Can we please stop the mudslinging? I personally don't care what threads are deleted. As far as I'm concerned, it's a learning experience for us all. The original post has validity. You just made a mistake as well and like the Iowa jumpers mourning their loss of a friend, you should also get a "get out of jail free" pass.

And that's all I have to say about that.
Life is short. Live, laugh, love often!

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