Soft housings

[RACEDOG 0]

Just curious, are there still alot of people jumping rigs with soft cutaway housings. I've never owned a rig with soft housings and I'm wondering what the general opinion is on this...just want to be informed about the equipment I'll be repacking reserves in.

Thanks

[masterrig 1]

In an article in Skydiving' magazine, awhile back, Bill Booth said to 'get rid of them!'. The soft housings, tend to bunch-up around the cable, when the release handle is pulled. Making it either near or impossible to pull. Contact the manufacturer of the harness-container.

Hope, this helps.

Chuck

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

In an article in Skydiving' magazine, awhile back, Bill Booth said to 'get rid of them!'. The soft housings, tend to bunch-up around the cable, when the release handle is pulled. Making it either near or impossible to pull. Contact the manufacturer of the harness-container.

Hope, this helps.

Chuck

Yea, what he said. Advise anyone who brings a rig with soft housing on it to you for a repack to have them changed out. A good test is to ask yourself,"Do they improve the rig in any way?". If not, why have them.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I think THIS sums it up

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[masterrig 1]

I have had several rigs come to my shop with the 'soft routings' and to each one, I advised the owner to go to the 'hard' housings. We had an incident a few years ago on a rig (with soft, Type-4 housings), where the jumper had to cut-away and had to pull the release handle with all he had, 3-times, till enough cable cleared the loops on the main risers. Made believers out of a lot of folks!

Chuck

[RACEDOG 0]

Thanks, to all, for the info.
Rich

[henrik.anderson 0]

I have a -97 ( I think) Talon with soft housing. Is there a "upgrade kit" to hard housing availible? What does it cost?
/Henrik

[masterrig 1]

Rigging Innovations offers the hard routings for your harness-container. When you contact them, be sure you have the serial number of the harness-container. Your rigger can install them. The last time I ordered them, they were about $30 - $35.00 (U.S.)

Hope, this helps.

Chuck

[pchapman 261]

What about partial hard housings -- I'm talking about those where there's a metal housing behind the neck, but the sections that stick up from the harness to the riser are soft. What's the opinion on those?
Some Rigging Innovations rigs are like that. Is it still current practice?
Who had fully soft housings? Javelin, any other rigs?

[masterrig 1]

It was the soft ends, with the grommet for the loop to pass through. This, is where the Type - 4 webbing would 'bunch-up' when the release handle was pulled. There-in, lie the problem. Rigging Innovations had a length of curved plastic tube routing for the cable to pass through, near the top of the reserve pack tray. This was meant to 'ease' the pull. The cut-away I witnessed was on a Javelin. As for how many other harness-containers had soft routings, I don't know the answer for that.

Chuck

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

What about partial hard housings -- I'm talking about those where there's a metal housing behind the neck, but the sections that stick up from the harness to the riser are soft. What's the opinion on those?
Some Rigging Innovations rigs are like that. Is it still current practice?
Who had fully soft housings? Javelin, any other rigs?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I still have partial hard housings in my Talon 2, built in 1997. I never saw what the fuss was all about.
All R.I. harnesses built after 1997 have full metal housings.

Soft housings were available on harnesses from three manufacturers: Sun Path (Javelin), Rigging Innovations (Flexon, '94 Talon and a few Talon 2s) and Thomas Sports Equipment (one-pin Teardrop).

I am now going to state an opinion that runs counter to industry lore.
I doubt that soft housings ever "bunched-up."
It was actually two other problems: mis-routing and cable pinch.
Most of the mis-routings were caused by skydivers who were too lazy to learn new maintenance techniques for new technology. A large part of that problem was the manufacturers introducing new technology without new manuals. The Javelin manual was terrible at explaining how to install release cables in soft housings and the Flexon manual was not much better. The end result was dozens of improperly installed cables that raised pull forces from 5 pounds to 25 pounds.

The second problem blamed on soft housings was cable pinch, a problem that we did not fully understand until several years after soft housings fell out of fashion. Cable pinch occurs when a heavily-loaded canopy spins up so fast that the lines twist all the way down to the risers and the risers twist so much that they pinch/squeeze the release cables so tightly that mere mortals cannot pull their cutaway handles.
The currently fashionable solution to cable pinch is inserting short metal housings on the main risers.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

The second problem blamed on soft housings was cable pinch, a problem that we did not fully understand until several years after soft housings fell out of fashion.

Soft housings were just that, a fashion statement. It was not new technology, it did not improve anything. If it does not improve function or safety why do it?
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggermick 6]

Quote

Quote

The second problem blamed on soft housings was cable pinch, a problem that we did not fully understand until several years after soft housings fell out of fashion.

Soft housings were just that, a fashion statement. It was not new technology, it did not improve anything. If it does not improve function or safety why do it?



HA HA HA HA now that's funny!!!!!!!! It's ALL about fashion!!!!!!!!! Always has been...... always will be (to somebody)

Mick.
)

Sparky

[linestretch 0]

Rob, the incident with Ernie Butler (I'm sure you know who I'm talking about....from snohomish). What was the deal with his. He had a Javelin with softies. I was told that the cutaway cable actually pulled through, and he couldn't release the main. Is this correct, or was it something else?

my pics & stuff!

[councilman24 36]

Rob,

Do you maintain that properly installed cutaway cables in soft housing pulled just as easy as hard housings?

I took great care in the routing of cables in RI and Sunpath products. But still believed the soft housing were harder pulls. Not necessarily unacceptable, but still harder. And with the possibility of misrouting by others were worth removing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

Linestretch,
I am sorry, but I do not remember the details of Ernie Butler's accident, one of the joys of becoming a grey-beard.
Next I will be hiding my own Easter eggs! Hee! Hee!

Please refresh our memories on the details of Ernie's accident.

[riggerrob 558]

Do you maintain that properly installed cutaway cables in soft housing pulled just as easy as hard housings?

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Councilman,
I maintain that properly installed metal housings yield pull-forces in the 5 pound range and that properly installed soft housings yield pull forces in the 8 to 10 pound range.
On the other hand, mis-routed soft housings will yield pull forces in the 25 pound range.
To get pull forces exceeding 30 pounds, you need line twists bad enough to pinch the cables in their riser channels.
Note, all these measurements were done with a 170 pound man in a suspended harness, at one "G."

Soft housings were a technological advancement in terms of lighter weight and ease of manufacture. Unfortunately, they required more brain power than the average skydiver was willing to exert.

[councilman24 36]

Hmmm,
Brain power and skydiver, you really associate these together?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billbooth 10]

30 years ago, when I invented the 3-ring release, I used soft housings on the first few rigs. I went to the present metal housings almost immediately, because they simply worked a lot better. (The first few people who wanted hard housings had to steal a payphone to get them. Luckily, I soon found a lot more legal source.) Not only did hard housings yield softer pulls, they also allowed simultaneous release of both risers.

The long curved soft housing has no stiffness, and will therefore compress in response to the cable pull, causing the right side 3-ring to release before the left. This transfers the entire load of the now rapidly spinning, half broken away canopy, to the left riser. The now higher force on the left riser closing loop transfers to the yellow cable, and friction in the now compressed soft housing goes up astronomically. If soft housings are wet or dirty, pull forces get even worse. These problems just get a lot worse if your main malfunction is spinning rapidly. Soft housings were never a technological advancement. They were a very dangerous step backwards, made in the name of "coolness", and they hurt a lot of people. To this day it amazes me that no manufacturer ever "recalled" the soft housing rigs they had made. They just quietly stopped making them.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

30 years ago, when I invented the 3-ring release, I used soft housings on the first few rigs. I went to the present metal housings almost immediately, because they simply worked a lot better. (The first few people who wanted hard housings had to steal a payphone to get them. Luckily, I soon found a lot more legal source.) Not only did hard housings yield softer pulls, they also allowed simultaneous release of both risers.

The long curved soft housing has no stiffness, and will therefore compress in response to the cable pull, causing the right side 3-ring to release before the left. This transfers the entire load of the now rapidly spinning, half broken away canopy, to the left riser. The now higher force on the left riser closing loop transfers to the yellow cable, and friction in the now compressed soft housing goes up astronomically. If soft housings are wet or dirty, pull forces get even worse. These problems just get a lot worse if your main malfunction is spinning rapidly. Soft housings were never a technological advancement. They were a very dangerous step backwards, made in the name of "coolness", and they hurt a lot of people. To this day it amazes me that no manufacturer ever "recalled" the soft housing rigs they had made. They just quietly stopped making them.

Yea what he said. Technological advancement. my ass. Lighter my ass. Cheaper to make. Yes!
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 558]

Bill,
It is always a breath of fresh air hearing your voice of 30 years experience cutting through all the rumor, inuendo and sales patter.
Thanks

[masterrig 1]

I was told the story of the phone-booth and the hard-routings when i was working on my masters. Every time I I&R a harness-container & reserve, I gotta chuckle.
A few years ago, one of our jumpers borrowed a Javelin, with soft routings. He later said that he had to 'jerk' real hard about 3 - 4 times to get the malfunctioned main to release and get his reserve out. I later, hooked-up the main and had him put the rig on and pull the release handle. We could see the Type-4 routing material 'bunch-up' around the cable. The owner of the rig, asked me to please, change them out.

Chuck