Storing Clamps?

[MyTwoCents 0]

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Could you tell us which manufacturer that is? Maybe they could offer an explanation.

Not a manufacturer. Just a guy selling a used rig. As far as I know, most manufacturers are quite good about background checks.

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Are these two guys skydivers?

For some definition of that word, yes.

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They are in your neighborhood; Do they know you BASE jump? Have they approached you?

Yes, and yes. One guy I will definitely not jump with, period. A walking fatality...

I have yet to meet the other guy, but he's been emailing me about packing instructions, has an excuse why he can't go to Twin Falls, and has an existing history with other BASE jumpers. I'm withholding judgement until I meet him in person, but he strikes me as the kind of guy that would welcome online packing instructions.

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I have more questions and I don't mean to sound rude but could you give a little more information please?

Not rude at all. I don't mind discussing these kind of things, because it's not an easy situation. Good advice is always welcome.

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Also I don't think that finding a packing video on skydivingmovies would be more difficult than accessing CR's library. If anything it could save a couple of lives and that's always good even if it's a couple of fools...

I disagree. For a certain type of person, it's harder to open a PDF file on a relatively obscure site (let's be honest) and find the package instructions embedded in there, than find a how-to-pack video on SkydivingMovies.com.

Much more importantly, the CR packing instructions still require a lot of thought to interpret the pictures and text. With full audio and video, not much is left to the imagination.

You say it could save a couple of lives. I personally believe that it could cost a couple of lives. Right now, the magic of the BASE packjob still scares a lot of people away. With instructions out in the open, more people will go at it alone.

[GreenMachine 0]

Hello JT Holmes,

I knwow you were addressing Tom A. and not me but here is my two cents on the subject...I have packed 19 reserve pack jobs WITHOUT clamps and packed about the same amount of BASE pack jobs WITH clamps (7 from the Perrine, 4 from planes, and the rest were for practice). I can do it either way but the clamps do make it easier.

Rigger, Skydiver, BASE Jumper, Retired TM

[NickDG 23]

Clamps aren't the problem - it's the damn helmet I never know what to do with . . .

NickD BASE 194

[cresTfall 0]

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After Bridge Day I'll try to compress the video and throw it up on the SkydivingMovies.com server so you can all pick it apart.

Can you please not do that? I know of at least two people in my neighbourhood for who the mystery of the BASE packjob is the only thing stopping them from going out and jumping. One of them already procured BASE gear (thanks, random person in California that doesn't do background checks) and refuses to do an FJC.

I'm well aware that CR has packing information in their Ram Air manual, but fortunately it takes some effort to find, open and read. Having it in full video glory on SkydivingMovies.com would do more harm than good.

Are you also well aware that at least one major manufacturer will sell that information on video? Anyone can purchase the video from their website.

Premier Member IGPA
2009 IGPA Overall Champion

WWTAD

[TomAiello 26]

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Wasn't there a smiliar instance where a guy bought a rig off of ebay, learned how to pack somehow and then went and jumped a bridge... Though the bridge he jumped was the wrong one, the one that was high enough was a mile upstream

#48 Fred

Read the list, it's important.

I think the one that KansasSkydiver was thinking of was the one in the PNW, off BASE 587's bridge. It wasn't a fatality, but left the guy in very serious condition, and I believe with permanent disability.

There have been other cases of this, too.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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just curious Tom, do you use 12 clamps, 3 bungee cords and 2 nails every time you pack a base rig?

No, not every time. And it's 4 bungee cords. It's also evolved into 13 clamps--and you left out the pull up cord.

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I can't imagine where to put all those clamps and misc. Are you flat packing or over the shoulder packing?

If you PM me with your mailing address, I'll send you a copy of the video, and you can pick it apart at your leisure.

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I for one am not a clamper. flat pack aussie style no clamps has yet to fail me. it seems about 50/50 to me the ratio of jumpers using clamps vs. not using clamps at all. maybe someone should make one of those poll thingys.

I originally learned to pack with no clamps. I'm pretty comfortable packing in a variety of ways--clamps, no clamps, flat pack, over the shoulder, etc.

It's interesting that you call that "Aussie Style." The guy who taught me to pack (without clamps) initially was Australian (Pete W.). But the guy who laughed at me and said "it's way easier with clamps, mate," and then proceeded to show me that he even packed his PC with a clamp (something which at the time I found hard to fathom), was also Australian (Slim).

The whole point of tools is to make the process easier, or easier to do well. If you can't pack without the tools, the tools themselves are not going to pack for you. They just make it easier for you to pack, especially when you are learning, without having to waste mental and physical energy on the "nylon wrestling match."

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also, what would your students do if their luggage never arrived to Europe, but they were smart enough to bring their rig carry-on. it is really nice to know how to pack without any tools...

Either they'd head over to a hardware store (I heard they have them in Europe, too) and buy whatever tools they wanted, or they'd sort out how to pack with less tools. Plenty of people are doing that by the end of my FJC's, actually. And it's actually quite rare that I see one of my students a year later and they're still using all the tools.

Tools are just that--tools. I use them packing parachutes for the same reasons I use them building something, or working on a car. They make a certain task easier, or faster, or more efficient, or more reliable.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pocbase 0]

Sorry I assumed it was a manufacturer.

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You say it could save a couple of lives. I personally believe that it could cost a couple of lives. Right now, the magic of the BASE packjob still scares a lot of people away. With instructions out in the open, more people will go at it alone.

Maybe but one manufacturer running a less obscure site already has it laid out, drawings and all without having to open a pdf, yet can it be said that more people are going it alone because of that?

The answer to that, we don't really know but I still don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

Also for us people who are far far away from where all the advances are being made, the more info the better. The internet has been an awesome way of getting technical info out here thus maybe preventing previously made mistakes. I'd really like to see how Tom teaches packing (Then indeed you could argue that I should just order a dvd).

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[pocbase 0]

We've had a similar thing happen in SA with a visiting french jumper.
"It looks a bit lower than what they told me....and i can't see that landing area.....oh well, trois deux un..."

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[base736 0]

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Clamps aren't the problem - it's the damn helmet I never know what to do with . . .

I think you might be overestimating the risk involved in packing a parachute.

[base283 0]

Try this.
Just joking.

[HydroGuy 0]

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No, not every time. And it's 4 bungee cords. It's also evolved into 13 clamps--and you left out the pull up cord.

Did you stop using the pull-up cord by the tailpocket and replace it with a clamp?

I'm down to 8 clamps, two pullup cords, 4 bungee's.

That being said, I do need to learn to pro pack with just a pull up cord, because I know that time will come someday...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[dumbaz 0]

throw the clamps away.

and if you think twice about the previous line, throw yer rig away.

-------
visit http://www.dumbaz.com

[NickDG 23]

>>throw the clamps away.

and if you think twice about the previous line, throw yer rig away.<<

That's a Nugget . . .

NickD BASE 194

[Zoter 0]

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throw the clamps away.

Why....?
If they make your packjob easier to control and therefore reduce the chances of a line going stray......why not?
If you cant pack without clamps and dont have any...fair enough....but most people I know who use them are able to pack without them, no big issue

I guess you dont bother with a safety razor then....preferring to use a bowie knife..??

Clamps are tools to make things easier, often faster and often more consistant.......just because you use tools does not mean you are reliant on them...

I have a microwave...doesnt mean I cant cook beans on a gas stove....but I can cook them to the same standard, quicker, by using the microwave.

[NickDG 23]

Read what Hydro Guy said in his last sentence. Besides it's always better to have clamps enhance an already solid hand. Having a good "hand" is a sort of rigger's term for being able to control things during a pack job.

Remember when PRO packing first became popular at the DZ? Some people couldn't do it without a hook drilled into the ceiling. We called those people "hook cripples." Being a "clamp cripple" is the same thing.

NickD BASE 194

[TomAiello 26]

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No, not every time. And it's 4 bungee cords. It's also evolved into 13 clamps--and you left out the pull up cord.

Did you stop using the pull-up cord by the tailpocket and replace it with a clamp?

Yes. My packjob is evolving almost continuously. So, probably is yours, and almost everyone elses. That's as it should be. If you stop learning and improving things, well...

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[BASE864 0]

Get a good sized fanny pack to throw it all in - then you have one place where you can keep everything you neeed - clamps, pull-up cords, tail-gates, rubber bands, tent stakes and perhaps even your mesh slider. Don't forget to thrown in a couple of punching balls (aka balloons) as you never now when you might get to talk to God. Wha Wha Wha

Of course don't forget your Triax T-Stake!

I use clamps as they make my pack job neater, and easier for me to handle. That, thus reduces gear fear. However, I have packed at BD with no clamps and found from the pictures that the pack job opened very ugly, but more or less on heading none the less...

Later,
BASE864

[NickDG 23]

We've come so far . . . We should really be proud of ourselves.

I remember when a few people never packed in the field. Moe Viletto would show up at Freedom Canyon Bridge with six packed "Edge" rigs. And when they were unpacked he was done. I used to watch him pack in his loft and he'd start by snapping down a chalk line for reference. I think if I thought packing needed that degree of accuracy I wouldn't BASE jump.

Moe was also the first person I ever saw that used clamps – he used them packing reserves and BASE canopies in about 1987. We laughed at him . . .

I'm not laughing now.

NickD BASE 194

[base704 0]

As discussed in an earlier thread, I have 515's mom hold onto mine...

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

[SabreDave 0]

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throw the clamps away.

and if you think twice about the previous line, throw yer rig away.

Sir yes sir...right away sir, thankyou sir. Just ran out and threw it into the street all the while screaming, "I have seen the light!! Praise the Lord for I have seen the light!!" Wow, I found salvation on the internet, well shiver me fucking timbers...........

Good one!!

SabreDave