newbie4ever 0 #1 October 11, 2006 i recently static lined a low cliff out of state from where i live and another guy was there too and he freefell it. it was pretty low about 175 to 190 feet. i was there with a local from the local DZ. he and i thoughT he was crazy. he said "if i can't freefall it, it aint worth the packjob". and some other things as well. he also said he'd jumped once before static line and didn't like it. so he was proving something to himself or something like that. and also said he was never jumping the site again. i found it odd he was there by himself doing it solo and all but each there own. anyway is there anybody else out there who's anti static line? i mean it made me think: if its so low and can't freefall it, and have to worry about heading, stability issues and pilotchute issues, and all other issues maybe you shouldn't be jumping it? if you scare yourself out of the jump and only feel safe doing a static line or even pca SHOULD YOU EVEN BE JUMPING IT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base736 0 #2 October 11, 2006 Quoteif you scare yourself out of the jump and only feel safe doing a static line or even pca SHOULD YOU EVEN BE JUMPING IT? That's for you to decide. On at least one occasion, I've decided at the exit point that handing my PC off to another jumper would make me more comfortable with the jump as a whole, then (having landed safely) watched two more experienced jumpers freefall it. A PCA is not a magic bullet that makes every jump instantly safe, and on some jumps it's just a bad idea. But if, having performed an honest risk assessment, you feel that a PCA puts you in your comfort zone where a freefall doesn't, then why not? ... Unless PCA's just aren't your thing, in which case walking off would be the right decision, in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastpete 0 #3 October 11, 2006 Quote i was there with a local from the local DZ. he and i thoughT he was crazy. he said "if i can't freefall it, it aint worth the packjob". and some other things as well. he also said he'd jumped once before static line and didn't like it. so he was proving something to himself or something like that. and also said he was never jumping the site again. i found it odd he was there by himself doing it solo and all but each there own. anyway is there anybody else out there who's anti static line? In my opinion, those kind of guys shouldnt be basejumping at all...they will get hurt because of the attitude.... "anti static line" come on, really _____________________________________________ F......ck the Finns !!! FastPete www.pete.fi email: [email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #4 October 11, 2006 Quoteif its so low and can't freefall it, and have to worry about heading, stability issues and pilotchute issues, and all other issues maybe you shouldn't be jumping it? if you scare yourself out of the jump and only feel safe doing a static line or even pca SHOULD YOU EVEN BE JUMPING IT? If it's so high that you can freefall it, and not worry about heading or stability or pilotchute issues, then it's probably a skydive. I've heard the "if it's not freefallable it's not worth it" line before. I never understood that mentality then, and I still don't now. It implies that BASE is all about freefall time. If all you care about is freefall time then get on a plane and go to 13,000 feet - you'll get plenty of it there. If however BASE is about the challenge of jumping from somewhere that was never really intended to be jumped from, then you'll have no problem with static line, d bag or pca. I believe Carl Boenish said "the whole world is jumpable" NOT "the whole world is freefallable". Besides static-line-o-phobic comments (like slider-up-o-phobic comments) invariable come from jumpers who are scared to venture out of their comfort zones. If it pleases you, then do it. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwper 7 #5 October 11, 2006 Quoteif its so low and can't freefall it, and have to worry about heading, stability issues and pilotchute issues, and all other issues maybe you shouldn't be jumping it? if you scare yourself out of the jump and only feel safe doing a static line or even pca SHOULD YOU EVEN BE JUMPING IT? If you look at static line as one option in your arsenal, then in some situations you might choose to use it. Examples which come to mind: You need the altitude to make an acceptable landing area. There's just not enough altitude for freefall, but you fancy the idea of sneaking onto the object and hucking yourself off. Your options for off-heading openings are bleak, and the improved heading performance of static line sounds like a good idea. I think it's silly to eliminate such a useful option on principle alone. It would be a bit like saying, "If you can't jump it with a skydiving rig, maybe you shouldn't be jumping it. If you only feel safe using a BASE-specific rig, should you even be jumping it?" I mean, that's BASE jumping, right? Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #6 October 11, 2006 Quote he said "if i can't freefall it, it aint worth the packjob". Quote I guess that is his opinion. To me, there is always a time and place for static lines or PCA's. I have static lined from 165 up to 250 feet. The 250 is totally free fall material (S with a good landing) but I have never done it. Just not feeling 100% with freefalls below say 300-ish. Probably comes fromt he fact that the majority of my jumps have been in the 8-19 second range and slider down stuff scares the shit out of me! This person may have his reasons but like that cheeeesy saying goes, "the mind is like a parachute, it works better when it is open." I like static lines and think that all jumpers should be capable of setting up a proper one. I spent a some time with my rig on, tied to a static-line practicing bridle management at an altitude of 5 feet just to get used to all the added factors especially with a pin rig.SabreDave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #7 October 11, 2006 QuoteBesides static-line-o-phobic comments (like slider-up-o-phobic comments) invariable come from jumpers who are scared to venture out of their comfort zones. i think your dead on,atleast in my case,atleast i admit it i still belive that "my fatality" will be a slider up jump off a cliff i have thourght so since #65 Dr. Nikolas (Nik) Hartshorne, August 6, 2002 died(RIP). i have 330+BASEjumps i have less than 15 slider up jumps and yes sliders scares me(i mean scares me more than good is). Most of my slider up jumps were off Perrine through Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #8 October 11, 2006 QuoteI believe Carl Boenish said "the whole world is jumpable" NOT "the whole world is freefallable". I'm not sure how Carl B. would have viewed it, but I do know that there was a whole school of though among jumpers in the mid to late 90's that a static line (or a direct bag) was not a BASE jump. I believe they felt that you had to completely leave the object with a packed rig in order for it to "qualify" as a BASE jump. On the original topic: jump however you feel good about it. It's going to do you very little good to say "yeah, but it was a real BASE jump" if you're lying at the bottom of the cliff bleeding and broken.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 460 0 #9 October 11, 2006 I'd rather watch TV than DB! Rick Payne, BASE 137Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #10 October 11, 2006 Quotea whole school of though among jumpers in the mid to late 90's that a static line (or a direct bag) was not a BASE jump. I believe they felt that you had to completely leave the object with a packed rig in order for it to "qualify" as a BASE jump. how do you americans SL? I would say that a SL jump has a packed rig as if you do a PCA or HH.I fail to see if a SL jump aint Quallify as a jump whith a packed rig. Please explain why a SL jump wont be a a jump whith a packed rig if a HH jump is.. If it aint a BASE i need to find a new word to the sport i like so much(ie low jumps were you either need to be HH or SL) i think ill call it fun would be the same as saying that it aint a BASE if you use fine mesh or sailslider that said i always saw BASE as (picture in my head) person jumping off an object going HH(look at the front page of the book "BASE66" NOTE: freefalling low stuff probaly gonna hurt you one day,so if its a evryday jump you might want to considder SL as a more safe option.(not you Tom,the S is 486ft that aint low) Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #11 October 11, 2006 QuotePlease explain why a SL jump wont be a a jump whith a packed rig if a HH jump is.. The reasoning was, I believe, that you did not completely leave the object with the rig packed. The jumper was still connected to the object (by the break cord) until after the rig was open.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sean621 0 #12 October 11, 2006 ***If it pleases you, then do it. static lines and PCAs dont please me so i dont do them...wheres your argument?javascript:%20addTag('cool') Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Twoply 0 #13 October 11, 2006 At the risk of being a silly suzie, I admit I hate static lines and Pca's. I've sat out several jumps just because they frighten me so. I love 500+ stowed jumps and feel infinitely safer. My choice of what I think is safe. Hand held jumps scare me also. All that shit hanging in my hand and bridle looping around god knows what as I'm leaning off the A with my partners commenting on my thighs and if that's a cop or not. That scares me. But then so do gopher holes and oven mitts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #14 October 11, 2006 I freefell 180' ....over/into water. but impact would have been rock. -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tornolf 0 #15 October 11, 2006 I know one guy who has over 500 jumps and no PCAs or static lines because he doesn't think a jump which requires it is worth it. He's easily one of the most skilled and impressive jumpers I've ever seen.A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world. -TJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #16 October 11, 2006 One of the most skilled and natural jumpers i jump with says its not worth it as well, and i doubt ill ever do another one myselk -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base515 0 #17 October 11, 2006 All you guys are missing out. Static lines how allowed me to jump indoors and lighthouses and other unique things. Things to dangerious to Freefall, but jumpable none the less. Don't be an object snob! May we live long and die out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Naptown 0 #18 October 11, 2006 Exactly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE864 0 #19 October 12, 2006 Nobody mentioned the issue of large canopies on low objects. What someone else might freefall (<250), there is no way I would consider that with my big canopy. My FliK 322 takes longer to inflate and get flying than all you all's smaller canopies. I have vents, but it still takes longer to produce the lift I want when I land. Thus, if I want to jump someone else's freefallable object, then I'll PCA or static line it. IMO it's worth the pack job in order to jump the low object. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Carpediem 0 #20 October 12, 2006 QuoteThe reasoning was, I believe, that you did not completely leave the object with the rig packed. The jumper was still connected to the object (by the break cord) until after the rig was open. When I touch down after a SL jump, I still have a big grin on my face. I don't care if anyone calls it a BASE jump or not. I didn't do it for the label. Those who do, can't explain. Those who don't, can't understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #21 October 12, 2006 Quote static lines and PCAs dont please me so i dont do them...wheres your argument? Read again Sean. You're not making sense. The argument is not anti freefall and it's not an argument for everyone to go out and static line, it's an argument for the original poster to not buy into this dogmatic idea that static line is not worth the pack job. If they enjoy the jump then it's worth it, regardless of deployment method. With regards the old school idea alluded to by Tom about them not being a real base jump, that's just an utterly ridiculous and a rather churlish effort by some to demean the efforts of others, based on nothing other than jealousy and ignorance. I guess that's one way of lowering the BASE fatality list. We could strike off #3 Frank Donellan, #14 Michael Gibbard #24 Darren Newton, #33 Theresa Tran, #100 Mario Massato cos i guess in many people's eyes they died outside the sport. Having watched archive footage and seen the joy and pride Carl Boenish displays after watching Jean be the first to jump the famous canyon cliff in utah, i fail to believe he would have viewed that first leap as anything other than a bona fide BASE jump despite Jean being attached to the object by a static line. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #22 October 12, 2006 It's déjà vu all over again . . . In the 80s when direct bag was more fashionable than static line, Rick Payne started a big thing by saying, "I'd rather watch TV than do a DB!" Now, your names are different but the arguments are all the same . . . Static line BASE didn't catch on right away in the U.S. as we saw it as something you did in Great Britain. And we were very aware of the problems they had with it. It just didn't seem foolproof enough, and at the time it wasn't. (Not much approached foolproof in BASE during those days, but luckily we were mostly blissfully ignorant of that.) Soon after Mark Hewitt showed us the direct bag method. I won’t say he invented it as anyone that ever jumped a T-10 stuffed into a deployment bag attached to a static line knows it's been around forever. But we can say he "adapted" the technique to BASE. Direct bag opened a new world of objects and we took full advantage. The other side of the coin was the accident and injury rate went through the roof. Our crew was doing jumps from the 12th and 13th floors of buildings over hard parking lots and not even thinking twice about it. What did us in was we didn't have BASE canopies, we didn't have good toggles, we didn't have vents, and except for the riggers among us, not many even knew how to PRO pack. I shudder now thinking how many "side packed" direct bag jumps we did. Some people were even "roll packing!!!" Helmets and other protective gear was still a few years away too and in California anyway, it was mainly shorts, sandals and a skydiving rig . . . And just to make it worse, at first we used deployment bags without handles and without them being attached to the object in anyway. The lesson I've carried from those days is while we knew we didn't know it all, we did think we were riding on the cutting edge of BASE technology, and we were, but we didn't realize how far from sharp that cutting edge was. I have no doubt the same could be said of today . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TVPB 0 #23 October 13, 2006 Whether or not someone thinks that a S/L is worth it or not is totally irrelevant. YOU BASE jump for specific personal reasons. If the jump satisfies YOUR criteria, objectives, goals, fantasies, whatever, then it is worth it. My opinion is that any person that says any type of jumping is not worth it has no business opening their mouth. Now, if they say that a specific type of jumping is not relevant for them, then I can respect that. In the end, those that think you should not jump, no matter what type your jump is and what type of jumps they prefer, are WHUFFO's. Why for you jump off/out/in/etc. . . . . . And we all know very well that Whuffo's should be tolerated but ignored!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do I like freefall on BASE jumps? Shit yeah! I absolutely love it. I prefer it to S/L. BUT, Do I think S/L sucks? Yeah that jump at MB / AGDM at 4800m in France really sucked. I hated that no end. So did that one off a certain religious landmark in Germany. So did that one on the internal side of a certain arched bridge onto a roadway somewhere, so did . . . . . . . . and the one to top them all off . . . . . my first jump. I will NEVER take that back. And it was a S/L. Hence, do what you want to do. Those that decline jumps are entitled to. Don't let them influence you adversely, or rob you of life experience and fun. Whatever style you choose. Just do it as safely as you can. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck p.s. people who think S/L is uncool are . . . . . . . . . . . attempting to overcome some sort of feelings of inadequacy!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #24 October 14, 2006 we need to hook up some day Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stitch 0 #25 October 14, 2006 QuoteIt's going to do you very little good to say "yeah, but it was a real BASE jump" if you're lying at the bottom of the cliff bleeding and broken.That's a Nugget."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 0
Faber 0 #7 October 11, 2006 QuoteBesides static-line-o-phobic comments (like slider-up-o-phobic comments) invariable come from jumpers who are scared to venture out of their comfort zones. i think your dead on,atleast in my case,atleast i admit it i still belive that "my fatality" will be a slider up jump off a cliff i have thourght so since #65 Dr. Nikolas (Nik) Hartshorne, August 6, 2002 died(RIP). i have 330+BASEjumps i have less than 15 slider up jumps and yes sliders scares me(i mean scares me more than good is). Most of my slider up jumps were off Perrine through Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #8 October 11, 2006 QuoteI believe Carl Boenish said "the whole world is jumpable" NOT "the whole world is freefallable". I'm not sure how Carl B. would have viewed it, but I do know that there was a whole school of though among jumpers in the mid to late 90's that a static line (or a direct bag) was not a BASE jump. I believe they felt that you had to completely leave the object with a packed rig in order for it to "qualify" as a BASE jump. On the original topic: jump however you feel good about it. It's going to do you very little good to say "yeah, but it was a real BASE jump" if you're lying at the bottom of the cliff bleeding and broken.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
460 0 #9 October 11, 2006 I'd rather watch TV than DB! Rick Payne, BASE 137Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #10 October 11, 2006 Quotea whole school of though among jumpers in the mid to late 90's that a static line (or a direct bag) was not a BASE jump. I believe they felt that you had to completely leave the object with a packed rig in order for it to "qualify" as a BASE jump. how do you americans SL? I would say that a SL jump has a packed rig as if you do a PCA or HH.I fail to see if a SL jump aint Quallify as a jump whith a packed rig. Please explain why a SL jump wont be a a jump whith a packed rig if a HH jump is.. If it aint a BASE i need to find a new word to the sport i like so much(ie low jumps were you either need to be HH or SL) i think ill call it fun would be the same as saying that it aint a BASE if you use fine mesh or sailslider that said i always saw BASE as (picture in my head) person jumping off an object going HH(look at the front page of the book "BASE66" NOTE: freefalling low stuff probaly gonna hurt you one day,so if its a evryday jump you might want to considder SL as a more safe option.(not you Tom,the S is 486ft that aint low) Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #11 October 11, 2006 QuotePlease explain why a SL jump wont be a a jump whith a packed rig if a HH jump is.. The reasoning was, I believe, that you did not completely leave the object with the rig packed. The jumper was still connected to the object (by the break cord) until after the rig was open.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean621 0 #12 October 11, 2006 ***If it pleases you, then do it. static lines and PCAs dont please me so i dont do them...wheres your argument?javascript:%20addTag('cool') Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twoply 0 #13 October 11, 2006 At the risk of being a silly suzie, I admit I hate static lines and Pca's. I've sat out several jumps just because they frighten me so. I love 500+ stowed jumps and feel infinitely safer. My choice of what I think is safe. Hand held jumps scare me also. All that shit hanging in my hand and bridle looping around god knows what as I'm leaning off the A with my partners commenting on my thighs and if that's a cop or not. That scares me. But then so do gopher holes and oven mitts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #14 October 11, 2006 I freefell 180' ....over/into water. but impact would have been rock. -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tornolf 0 #15 October 11, 2006 I know one guy who has over 500 jumps and no PCAs or static lines because he doesn't think a jump which requires it is worth it. He's easily one of the most skilled and impressive jumpers I've ever seen.A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world. -TJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #16 October 11, 2006 One of the most skilled and natural jumpers i jump with says its not worth it as well, and i doubt ill ever do another one myselk -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base515 0 #17 October 11, 2006 All you guys are missing out. Static lines how allowed me to jump indoors and lighthouses and other unique things. Things to dangerious to Freefall, but jumpable none the less. Don't be an object snob! May we live long and die out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #19 October 12, 2006 Nobody mentioned the issue of large canopies on low objects. What someone else might freefall (<250), there is no way I would consider that with my big canopy. My FliK 322 takes longer to inflate and get flying than all you all's smaller canopies. I have vents, but it still takes longer to produce the lift I want when I land. Thus, if I want to jump someone else's freefallable object, then I'll PCA or static line it. IMO it's worth the pack job in order to jump the low object. Later, BASE864 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carpediem 0 #20 October 12, 2006 QuoteThe reasoning was, I believe, that you did not completely leave the object with the rig packed. The jumper was still connected to the object (by the break cord) until after the rig was open. When I touch down after a SL jump, I still have a big grin on my face. I don't care if anyone calls it a BASE jump or not. I didn't do it for the label. Those who do, can't explain. Those who don't, can't understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #21 October 12, 2006 Quote static lines and PCAs dont please me so i dont do them...wheres your argument? Read again Sean. You're not making sense. The argument is not anti freefall and it's not an argument for everyone to go out and static line, it's an argument for the original poster to not buy into this dogmatic idea that static line is not worth the pack job. If they enjoy the jump then it's worth it, regardless of deployment method. With regards the old school idea alluded to by Tom about them not being a real base jump, that's just an utterly ridiculous and a rather churlish effort by some to demean the efforts of others, based on nothing other than jealousy and ignorance. I guess that's one way of lowering the BASE fatality list. We could strike off #3 Frank Donellan, #14 Michael Gibbard #24 Darren Newton, #33 Theresa Tran, #100 Mario Massato cos i guess in many people's eyes they died outside the sport. Having watched archive footage and seen the joy and pride Carl Boenish displays after watching Jean be the first to jump the famous canyon cliff in utah, i fail to believe he would have viewed that first leap as anything other than a bona fide BASE jump despite Jean being attached to the object by a static line. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #22 October 12, 2006 It's déjà vu all over again . . . In the 80s when direct bag was more fashionable than static line, Rick Payne started a big thing by saying, "I'd rather watch TV than do a DB!" Now, your names are different but the arguments are all the same . . . Static line BASE didn't catch on right away in the U.S. as we saw it as something you did in Great Britain. And we were very aware of the problems they had with it. It just didn't seem foolproof enough, and at the time it wasn't. (Not much approached foolproof in BASE during those days, but luckily we were mostly blissfully ignorant of that.) Soon after Mark Hewitt showed us the direct bag method. I won’t say he invented it as anyone that ever jumped a T-10 stuffed into a deployment bag attached to a static line knows it's been around forever. But we can say he "adapted" the technique to BASE. Direct bag opened a new world of objects and we took full advantage. The other side of the coin was the accident and injury rate went through the roof. Our crew was doing jumps from the 12th and 13th floors of buildings over hard parking lots and not even thinking twice about it. What did us in was we didn't have BASE canopies, we didn't have good toggles, we didn't have vents, and except for the riggers among us, not many even knew how to PRO pack. I shudder now thinking how many "side packed" direct bag jumps we did. Some people were even "roll packing!!!" Helmets and other protective gear was still a few years away too and in California anyway, it was mainly shorts, sandals and a skydiving rig . . . And just to make it worse, at first we used deployment bags without handles and without them being attached to the object in anyway. The lesson I've carried from those days is while we knew we didn't know it all, we did think we were riding on the cutting edge of BASE technology, and we were, but we didn't realize how far from sharp that cutting edge was. I have no doubt the same could be said of today . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #23 October 13, 2006 Whether or not someone thinks that a S/L is worth it or not is totally irrelevant. YOU BASE jump for specific personal reasons. If the jump satisfies YOUR criteria, objectives, goals, fantasies, whatever, then it is worth it. My opinion is that any person that says any type of jumping is not worth it has no business opening their mouth. Now, if they say that a specific type of jumping is not relevant for them, then I can respect that. In the end, those that think you should not jump, no matter what type your jump is and what type of jumps they prefer, are WHUFFO's. Why for you jump off/out/in/etc. . . . . . And we all know very well that Whuffo's should be tolerated but ignored!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do I like freefall on BASE jumps? Shit yeah! I absolutely love it. I prefer it to S/L. BUT, Do I think S/L sucks? Yeah that jump at MB / AGDM at 4800m in France really sucked. I hated that no end. So did that one off a certain religious landmark in Germany. So did that one on the internal side of a certain arched bridge onto a roadway somewhere, so did . . . . . . . . and the one to top them all off . . . . . my first jump. I will NEVER take that back. And it was a S/L. Hence, do what you want to do. Those that decline jumps are entitled to. Don't let them influence you adversely, or rob you of life experience and fun. Whatever style you choose. Just do it as safely as you can. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck p.s. people who think S/L is uncool are . . . . . . . . . . . attempting to overcome some sort of feelings of inadequacy!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #24 October 14, 2006 we need to hook up some day Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #25 October 14, 2006 QuoteIt's going to do you very little good to say "yeah, but it was a real BASE jump" if you're lying at the bottom of the cliff bleeding and broken.That's a Nugget."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
