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NickDG

Shutting Down the BASE Zone?

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Don't read too much into this but I'm wondering who thinks the BASE Zone has run its course and should be abandoned? I ask because the question has been coming up in conversations, PMs, and e-mails of late.

The topic description for the BASE Zone is a bit ambiguous: "If you plan to try your hand at BASE jumping make sure you know what you're getting into. BASE jumping is extremely dangerous and you should clearly understand the risks before you think about it, whether you're a skydiver or not!"

Some will say the BASE Zone is a place for prospective BASE jumpers to get help and advice. Others say it's just a place for BASE jumpers to hang out and chat. I'm not sure that lately it's been either of those things.

For myself, I think it does help those who can read between the lines, but it probably turns off those that can't. So we are probably starting as many fires as we are putting out.

And while there are some of us that try and help anyone who asks, maybe we should be funneling these folks directly to the BASE gear manufactures and others who hold established first BASE courses.

Tom has already mentioned the very real security concerns, so I won’t go there.

We are listed here under "related sports" but those relations (skydivers & BASE jumpers) are kind of strained and we are also squabbling among ourselves. Maybe replacing the BASE Zone with Paragliding and those guys who run down hills with Stilettos would serve Dropzone.com better.

I'll admit the one reason I'd like to keep it going is purely a selfish one. I float a lot of ideas here that will someday be in the BASE book I'm writing. The flames that sometimes ensue, the well meaning and the not so well meaning, often make me re-think a position so for me this place serves a purpose.

Of course, it's HHs call in the end, but if the vote is thumbs down I think enough of us would leave and the BASE Zone would die on the vine like the BASE Board did.

So there it is . . . Do we stay, or do we go now?

NickD :)BASE 194

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How about moderators? Or at least a new "one".
Gravity Research Institute

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Honestly this is the moderators board, they are god on this site, he can change, delete, manipulate as they see fit. The trick is to find someone who has nothing to gain politically, financially, and has enough integrity to remain impartial and enforce the rules.

In its current state I don't think everyone is represented fairly on the board.
How about a moderator who doesn't know any of us, this way he could enforce the rules without personal relationships getting in the way. Not that Im in favor of censorship, but if the current rules stay in affect this person could blindly enforce policy.
or
How about changing the moderator every so often.



"HIGAF" Honestly I Give A F*^%

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Barry,

If you have a problem with Tom, or me, or anyone else, lay it out there. Or is that not an "efficient use" of your time? LOL . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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The comments regarding the moderation of forums is as old as forums are. Since the early days of BBSs (for those old netters who know what those are) moderators have always been under attack by the members of the community. Over the past 13 years I've been a part of many forums and seen many different styles of moderation, and Tom's is about par for the course.

You can find better examples of moderation and you can find worse, although Tom does a reasonable job of moderating this forum. To my knowledge he isn't paid to do so, he doesn't receive any compensation for investing the mountains of -time- he does into providing this environment. In fact it isn't even -his- forum, it's Sangiro's and Tom is volunteering to run it in a manner that is consistent with Sangiro's goals. And yet every day Tom gets up in the morning and spends time in front of his computer reading and moderating everything that comes through this forum, I can't imagine he enjoys it all the time either, but he lives up to his commitment to do it.

As with any community: if you don't like the way this one is run, go start your own. If you think -you- can provide a better forum, then go make one. No one is stopping you from forming your own website and forum. If you're curious what's involved talk to Sangiro, or Mick Knutzen. Ask them what their server/colocation/bandwidth bills are like. Ask them how many hundreds of hours go into creating such a forum, and how much work and money goes into their routine maintenance. Strangely, lots of people complain and few actually take action to offer something better... even more impressive few actually leave the environment they complain about. Actions speak louder than words, and in reality they must not think it's that bad... if they did they wouldn't come back. It's akin to constantly going to a restaurant that serves food you hate, complaining about it, and continually going back for more.

In the end, most enjoy complaining without taking any action. Most enjoy whining about what 'could be better' without ilfting a finger to make it better. Talk is cheap and internet posts are even cheaper. If you don't like the way things are run, go do it better. :-)

Just my unsolicited two cents.

-=Raistlin
find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;



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While it certainly is popular around here to scream "foul" at the moderator, my experience has been that posts and threads that are helpful, technical, or discuss a subject which hasn't become bonfire material are never deleted. Posts that suggest "creative" uses for a t-stake or advertise site names in ALL CAPS are sometimes, but not always, removed. And with all due respect to those involved (because some of them are friends), I'm not sure I've ever seen a user banned who couldn't reasonably have seen it coming.

I'm not saying the moderation here is always blind or impartial, but I've seen plenty worse in the time I've spent on forums, and little if any better.

Anyway, I've always enjoyed checking this forum and continue to do so. If certain people out there don't enjoy it, or feel that information shared here might be hazardous to the BASE community, then it's within their rights not to check it, and not to post.

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...It's akin to constantly going to a restaurant that serves food you hate, complaining about it, and continually going back for more.



Im just a small drop of water in a thunder storm, but totally agree with you. I don´t see how the negative votes in here actually reflect the real need of the active members in this Board... If people are reading this thread and voting "no", then why are they here in the first place! I would think that if some poeple read this Board (... and anyone can tell that there's a huge bunch of them (I do)), its because they find it useful, fun or a whole lot of different reasons BUT disposable and/or meaningless.

The way I see it, the Server is here and running, Hard drive space is pretty cheap now days and I don't see anyone getting hurt, killed or locked in a mental institution because of this Board. (Oh yeah... besides the ones that were locked long before getting a login acount in here. ;)).

That said, I don't see why the moderator should take the blame for any of this...

2c's from Chile
Peace.

Gabe

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Holy sheep-shit Batman....two logical and lucid posts in a row!:P I'll ride the coat tails of Raistlin and Jay's posts....well said.
SabreDave

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No way i love the base board. I was unconnected due to moab this weekend and now instead of working i can entertain myself all week on the 50+ new threads i have to catch up on. Seriously though, i love it.
word to your mother,
RJ$$
BASE 1117

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'Reading Between The Lines', it looks like you have been taking some of the 'BLINC Battle' you have been involved in to heart! Is this a cheap shot at Nick's call to revive the 'BASE Board'?
I run with the other comments on this - we got choices and we can pick and choose. Nobody makes us read a particular forum and I think it 'odd' that it is suggested to leave a particular forum 'on mass' without an overwhelming argument as to why? Please elaborate why I need to leave this evil place.

Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

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I put on my events for the people that want to come not the ones that stay home.If people are not happy let them start a new forum.


.

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I'm not advocating moving over to the BASE Board as I'm always a forward and never back sort of person. If there was a migration it would probably be to one of the password protected sites. And if it happens it won't be me doing it. It will just happen naturally like when winter comes.

I was just curious to see what the thinking was. And I mentioned upboard don't take this to heart.

But, I guess that didn't work . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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Any relation to Ray Laird, no offense Ray. If Abbie is reading he'll probably get a kick out of that.

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In all honesty, I think that another moderator here is a great idea. Tom is good, but sometimes he is a little agenda driven, and he clearly lets those who share his opinions get away with so much more than those who don't.

I think I would be a great moderator for this forum as I would help create a little balance.

I'd try really, really hard to do a good job, so if anyone agrees that I should help Tom moderate this board, let Sangria know.

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The Perrine Bridge has become the DZ of BASE jumping.

And the same old DZ baloney/politics are spilling over into the real world . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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You may find it amusing that two of the people I've banned the most often are Cornishe and Treejumps (both of whom I hang out with more than weekly).

I'm curious if you think that those two "share my opinions"?
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Your not the first to say that Tom is biased in some way, and speaking of agenda, it seems that you want to be a moderator. Does anyone have an example of Tom's Agenda driven ways, or any example of how he lets friends get away with things that he doesn't let others?

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....Cornishe....

whom I hang out with more than weekly......



of all the things to admit to.......

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Interesting to see that the discussion went the moderators way...

While there are several base forums around, they tend to serve a "national" background (jumpers, sites, guidelines, etc.) As far as I can remember (and I am only human), the base zone served the aussie community, got popular, and served the global group. Now, based on the number of posts, and my gut feeling, it seems DZ.com is the leading base forum.

For what it is worth, I tend to support one "global" base forum. If there is one, and it has that status: perfect. Besides, there can be 192 more "national" ones. (UN countries count). With that in mind, I see no reason to close down the base zone. And, if nobody posts there anymore, things will work out by themselves. And, I don't see a change of moderator will change that course.

Ronald

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My vote is unequivocally in favor of keeping the forum up and keeping Tom as the moderator.

I know little of the politics in mainstream Base but what I do know is that Sangiro and Tom, both whom I have never met, deserve a vote of thanks for enabling this forum to exist. I would also take this opportunity to thank Nick DG for some very interesting history lessons.

I certainly wouldn't have the time or inclination to offer such a service especially over the long haul and in all truth I doubt many others would either.

John

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Are those guys getting permanently banned? IP banned?

doubt it.

and what's this I hear about Tree moving to Twin? didn't I tell him to stay off my bridge???? i guess it is not mine anymore, so i can shut up.

My two cents is that this base zone has been really boring ever since CLIFHUCKSTABLE got permbanned and IP banned and got a daughter and a life outside the computer. totally feeling lonely. un ban him and send an email luring him back and then put jimmy H on to balance the forum and we are good to go.

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running OR moderating a forum is a thankless job. people will always complain. a different moderator will bring a different flavor, but would it honestly be better?

before changing moderators, consider adding another one...

please remember, the forum is really determined by the participants. we change it by what we contribute. it could be technical, social, or gibberish. it really is our call. we can end it by stopping our participation.

I think this forum does serve as a meeting place for like minded people. kinda like a biker bar. we can chill, admire each others efforts, argue, fight, etc.

without a common meeting place, the sport would become far more fractured and cliquish.

as the common ground, this forum is the first stop for many. it naturally will have a newbie flavor. as jumpers progress, they may very well outgrow this site. there is a noticable cycle in many particpants usage... ask a ton of repetitive questions, brag about how cool your jumps are, and then discourage others (following an accident).

ban the egos. let them argue it out elsewhere... they have grown beyond this site.
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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I'm not so sure that this forum has run it's course and needs to be put out of its misery yet. This forum is and will be what the collective users make of it. Lately it hasn't been made to be a very useful place. For users that can understand how to make it useful and productive, 'read between the lines' and in proper context, it can still work, but for others that only believe in drama-queening/personal attacks/pointless arguements, etc. it will be only a frustrating place, and boring for the others that are waiting for useful conversations to show up. Extrapolating from the current makeup of threads (useless drivel versus productive conversations) perhaps offers insight into which one there is more demand for.
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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Tom,
I've always thought that you do an exhaustive job as moderator here, and I'm defintiely not saying you should be replaced by me. I'm just saying that it might be good for me to bring another voice in as co-moderator.

I said that you are agenda driven, and that is nothing more than personal opinion, not an attack. I think all of us have some sort of agenda for the sport, and we post/act/jump accordingly. I believe my agenda is different from yours; therefore, I think I could add balance in the sense that variety is the spice of life.

I do believe that when discussions take place on this forum, you side with those who share your opinion. You're famous for saying "What are you basing that opinion on?" Well, if I must, I'll dig through old posts and get get some examples.

But one thing you do for sure is put words in other people's mouths. For instance you just wrote "You may find it amusing that two of the people I've banned the most often are Cornishe and Treejumps..."

I don't find it amusing in any way shape or form that you've banned those guys, but by saing that "I may find it ammsing" you've directed readers down that line of thinking.

You do subtle things like that all the time to lead debates when you should just be moderating.

A moderator is an arbitrator or mediator: a presiding officer, esp. a chairman of a debate.

I think the BASE Zone and those who read it, for information and entertainment, or even just to kill time at work or in between jumps would be better served if I were a co-moderator.

And to answer your question, I don't know if Tree Jumps or Cornishie share your opinions. I was more talking about in a debate by debate case. You certainly take sides whenever someone shares your specific opions during specific debates.

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