packing_jarrett 0 #26 September 1, 2006 Dude this kid is so lucky. I have 300 jumps a horrific malfunction and my dad won't let me base jump until I'm out of the house! no questions asked! 7 skydives isn't anything dude. That tells you how high to flare. But then again it seems going to twin falls is a no brainer compared to other places. But like others mentioned what if he gets a little cocky and decides to jump off an A gets busted and says he's done dozen base jumps does 841 get charged with neglagence? anyways I'm jelous.Na' Cho' Cheese Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac 1 #27 September 1, 2006 I would dissuade anyone from BASE jumping, so I can not understand at all why would anyone encourage their own flesh and blood to take up this sport... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #28 September 1, 2006 QuoteCan you elaborate? One man's degradation can be another man's improvement. Another McBASE jumper enters the sport, massively under prepared, massively under qualified, taking terrible advice and either unwilling to spend the 10 minutes it would take to find those things out or just unwilling to do anything about it. A "mentor" who is displaying similar qualities and worst of all, a mentor who is abusing one of the most powerful positions of trust a man can hold. Yes Jaap, congratulations to all involved, a real step forwards in this fledgling sport of ours. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #29 September 1, 2006 QuoteAnother McBASE jumper enters the sport, massively under prepared, massively under qualified, taking terrible advice and either unwilling to spend the 10 minutes it would take to find those things out or just unwilling to do anything about it. A "mentor" who is displaying similar qualities and worst of all, a mentor who is abusing one of the most powerful positions of trust a man can hold. When I wrote my original post I hadn't yet seen the video or realized this guy was working with only seven skydives. My bad. In light of this, I am now more inclined to agree with you. QuoteYes Jaap, congratulations to all involved, a real step forwards in this fledgling sport of ours. I see where you're coming from now. The angle I came from is that BASE has always had its share of younglings being introduced with ill-preparation. There are several sub-100 BASE number holders that can attest to this. So maybe not much has changed. In a way, I sometimes have more respect for the total loonies -that truly go ahead, unaware of what's going to hit them- than for the middle-of-the-road sheep that nod yes and amen when we speak of risk and dangers and do a half-assed job by preparing themselves seemingly responsibly (by taking an FJC) while still being whoefully ignorant. What category this kid (or his father) fits in, I don't know. The jury is out on that one. As for me, I fit the latter. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going to be silly, at least be silly in a hardcore way... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clair 0 #30 September 2, 2006 I learned how to BASE jump at 16, my first jump was an A and i had no skydiving experience at all. I had 8 jumps before i did my first tandem. I have been jumping for over a year and loving it more every day. I spent my one year anniversary in Norway with a group of friends, not a bad place to be after a year. I don't think that BASE jumping is a bad idea for a "kid" as long as the person teaching has enough experience and trusts that the "kid" can handel him/herself if put in a situation that is less then ideal. Whether he is 16 or 18 is irrelevant, his maturity level and ability to act fast and efficiently is what matters. My only advice for his dad is to make sure he is ready, and be safe as you can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TVPB 0 #31 September 2, 2006 You dodged a bullet Clair. The fact that you are alive may be due to personal skill and maturity and an incredible mentor. Perhaps you were just plain lucky. You are a statistical pool of ONE. You cannot draw a hypothesis and/or theorem from that. Your mentor is George Bushing his way through this one. "Weapons of Mass Desctruction I tell you". "It's OK for a 16 yo with no parachuting experience to BASE jump I tell you". Where are the facts / data / and a reasonable pool of experience to suggest that his actions were appropriate????? It's kind of like teaching your two year old son to walk . . . . . . through traffic. He may make it to the other side of the road, but that only proves that he was lucky, or that the traffic allowed for his inexperience and stopped. I would not like my two year old to play Frogger with traffic whilst he is learning to walk. And I certainly would not want my young child to learn to BASE jump without some prior skill development and retention. But it does not matter which way you cut it. It does not matter how you and/or your mentor want to justify your progression, IT IS NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION. And being able to judge who is right to progress the way you did is an art/skill that virtually NOBODY has the absolute talent for. Its great you're still alive and having fun. But please don't try to sell illogical, unproven, crap to the rest of the population. Your continued existence is NOT an absolute guarantee that what you did was right. You may believe it was right for you, but you should NOT try to make it right for everyone else. That is putting other people's lives in your and their hands. My suggestion for what it is worth, go learn a lot more about BASE jumping and life itself. Then teach those that are truly ready and willing, not everyone else. Quoteas long as the person teaching has enough experience and trusts that the "kid" can handel him/herself if put in a situation that is less then ideal trust???? less than ideal situation???? Herein lies the problem. You are basically hoping that a less than ideal situation does not develop so that the trust does not have to be relied upon. Let me put it to you another way, and this may be offensive and shocking, but you are not getting the point. Would anyone TRUST their inexperienced 16 yo daughter on a blind date with a bunch of sex crazed bikies. NO. And I do not give a rats arse how mature the daughter is, if she is mine, I would not put her in that situation. I would attempt to give her as much information/experience/wisdom, to stay away from that situation. My 16 yo child BASE jumping with no parachuting experience?????? Any parent who truly loves their child would insist on prior learning. As I said, I'm glad you have gotten through the early stages. But don't influence others to do the same thing. There are too many loved ones already on the list. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spider22 0 #32 September 2, 2006 Quotewhat if he gets a little cocky and decides to jump off an A gets busted and says he's done dozen base jumps does 841 get charged with neglagence? If he dies does 841 get charged with man slaughter?... My vote would be for YES! my skydivingmovies.com comment: I myself am 15 and want to get into BASE. Yes it would be awesome to BASE jump tomorrow, But if someone offered I would definatly have the brains to reject them! It would be tempting but I would prefer to make several thousand safe BASE jumps starting in 5 yrs than make only 50 starting now.... Bottom line, you and your son are tools...... .-|-.Kaint.-|-. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clair 0 #33 September 2, 2006 Yes im sure me still being alive is due to personal skill, and someone standing with me encouraging me. As for the "Weapons of Mass Destruction", there are no facts/ data, because as far as I know I was just about it. that doesn't mean that you can say that it is incredibly dangerous for a 16 year old to jump because the one girl that did learn to jump at 16 with no expirance is still alive and jumping all the time. The only way to get facts/data is to have more people do it, yeah there are millions of people who are no where near ready to base jump and would not beable to pull it off and succede at it with no other expirance, but i am sure there are a few, just like me. I totaly agree with you , it is not right for the majority of the population!!! I never said it was a good idea for every 16 year old. I am not selling "unproven crap" to the public, because all i am saying is there are some 16 year olds that can jump and do it safely. "being able to judge who is right to progress the way you did is an art/skill that virtually NOBOADY has the absolute talent for" yeah this is true but who is to say that some one is truly ready and willing. I was truly ready and willing. I had been think and researching all I could about BASE jumping for the past 8 years before i did my first jump. Everyone is different, and the # of jumps they need varrys concideribly. hmmm... i do believe that you are saying that my parents don't love me... ok whatever. You have no idea who my parents are or how much they love there kids. The reason my parents let me jump was because the trusted my choices and knew that if i wasn't prepared then i wouldn't do it they knew that this was something that i had been waiting to do for years and they also respected the fact that i had been talking to many people about jumping, and watching people jump for years. Less then i deal situations are inevitable, trusting the student to beable to work it out is what i was saying. i never said that i was hopeing that it never developed. Because hopeing never works. you are no matter what you think gonna be put in less then ideal situations. I am not NOT telling everyone to go out and jump with no expirance. Just like everyone else when asked about learning how to jump i tell them to go and learn how to skydive and get a bunch of jumps first. I just recentally took an 18 year old girl BASE jumping for her first few jumps. And yes she did have just over 300 skydives. i am not saying it is right for everyone, but i am saying that i am living proof that it can be done and it can be done safely. given the right student, teacher and object Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #34 September 2, 2006 Quotei am saying that i am living proof that it can be done and it can be done safely. given the right student, teacher and object Those are 2 different things: 1) It can be done; and 2) It can be done safely. Having done something successfully one time does not mean that it is safe. To generalize that something is safe, you need an evaluation of safety issues and a repeatable pattern of success. For example, if I give a 6 year old a gun and he doesn't shoot himself, that doesn't prove that what I did was safe. It demonstrates that there is some possibility that a 6 year old won't shoot himself. If I try to extrapolate from that and give all 6 year olds guns? Then I bet we'd be looking at some major problems. Note that this is not a comment on Dave and Matthews experience. I believe the two situations are radically different, in many different ways, one of which is that Dave isn't doing this because he wants to have sex with Matthew.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clair 0 #35 September 2, 2006 Yes you are right. but in order to have the proof that it is safe there needs to be more people doing it. I am not saying it was the safest thing in the world. i am saying it has been done and it is possiable it could be done again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #36 September 2, 2006 Quote...in order to have the proof that it is safe there needs to be more people doing it. As with the well armed 6 year olds, it's possible that conducting such an experiment, should it prove a failure, would have costs far greater than any potential benefits from a success.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clair 0 #37 September 2, 2006 i would hope that the people jumping did not think like a 6 year old, your brain has to be a little more mature than that , and you have to look at it from all angles, is the gun loaded? because if its not then the only way it is dangerous is if he throws it at some one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #38 September 2, 2006 you know.. only 5 years ago when i took up BASE i were told i were iresponsible jumping as i had kids,today this sport has improved and today its ok to jump as you has kids its ok to teach people who COULD get some maturety problems as of their age,also its ok to teach people who has nearly none or none atall experience under canopy. QuoteLetting my son skydive and BASE jump was done with a LOT of thought and discussion I hope so,as i understand you want the best to your son(all parents wants to),BUT if you really should help him then you should go skydive whith him do some canopy work etc etc i cant belive that you think that of his maturety he can handel mals at single parachute systems,that he can land presicly(and might standing),IF you had done all of that,mate i wouldnt pip up,but the fact that Mathew is young he aint all the mature you might think he is,as of his canopy experience he deafently need to learn more if you want to keep him safe. I tell you this as i care not to be evil.I think that if Mathew really wants this and you want to teach him,then make sure that it can be done as safe as posible(ie canopy control). People dies all over the world even in TF... Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TVPB 0 #39 September 3, 2006 r.e. the loaded gun example . . .. in BASE, the gun is always loaded. The only thing that varies is the number of bullets and the number of chambers. There is no such thing as "bulletless" Russian Roullette. If you do not have that minor bit of information well entrenched in your psyche, then you and/or the people you are now teaching, are doomed. Let me put it to you in laymans terms. It is possible to stuff up and die on any BASE jump. Yes, there are many things that can be done to minimise or even remove risk. Risk mitigation is an important skill. Someone with NO parachuting experience and little life experience has a much lower likelihood of having that experience and skill to draw upon. This means that you have less ability and skill to be able to: 1 - recognise risks and hazards before they happen 2 - develop a plan of action to overcome or reverse situations prior to them occuring 3 - have the mental and physical aptitude to be able to assess scenarios as they are developing (As opposed to afterwards) AND to deal with them in real time 4- be able to honestly and critically assess your performance afterwards such that you can make incremental corrections. I for one, am not willing to risk the life of MY child to validate your point. Because it has no benefit when my child is dead. r.e. the comment I made about your parents, I have no right to say that they do or do not love you. Because I do not know your individual circumstances. But for them to think it is OK to BASE jump off antennas with NO parachuting experience shows either: - an incredible amount of ignorance - totally unfounded trust, OR - someone to lie to them profusely to convince them otherwise. It is kind of like letting your 12 year old out on a date with no curfew and no chaperones. Why not just hand them the condoms, STD/AIDS clinic phone number, or pregnancy clinic number. Yes, there will always be exceptions. Yes, there are 16 yo who can do amazing things. But it is just plain dumb not to develop some fundamental parachuting skills in a more forgiving environment prior to BASE jumping. I would be more impressed with you if you had of developed prior parachuting experience and then started BASE jumping. Concluding: since you are convinced of yourself and you will not listen otherwise, I can only say this: get nicked, build the right skills, become TRULY competant (actual as opposed to verbal), then come back and tell us how wonderful you truly are. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clair 0 #40 September 3, 2006 sence when did this discution become about me??? Oh yeah it didn't .I have only used my self as an example that it can be done safely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #41 September 3, 2006 Quotesence when did this discution become about me??? Oh yeah it didn't .I have only used my self as an example that it can be done safely. It became a discussion about you when you used yourself as an example.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clair 0 #42 September 3, 2006 No this discution has been about a boy who wants to jump. usuing an example doesn't change the subject. Cause if it does then isn't this about 6 year olds with guns? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TVPB 0 #43 September 3, 2006 I think you have already answered your question. I guess it became a discussion about you, when you used yourself as an example. No one mentioned you first but yourself. My response was not about you. It was about you using your example as proof in relation to the original discussion. I (and some other people), are disputing your example as incomplete and flawed. Why are you offended by this? It seems to me that you are after the attention and not trying to provide a logical / valid / reasoned argument to the original discussion. The fact that you have taken this personally only adds to the growing notion that maturity is questionable in your age group. Even if you have survived a year of BASE jumping and are ready (in your eyes) to be teaching other young persons. Please explain how BASE can be done safely without prior parachuting experience? Give me some facts, data, logical reasoning. Please move away from the end result (i.e your continuing existance as proof that it is safe). If you can provide a reasoned debate, then perhaps people will respect you more than just for the "balls" that you seem to possess. They may also respect you some more for the maturity which you are attempting to convince many people that you have. I am prepared to change my views. But you must give excellent reasoning for this to occur. The ball is in your court. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TVPB 0 #44 September 3, 2006 No, it's about a 16 yo girl with balls!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites abreit 0 #45 September 3, 2006 I think the fundamental question proposed here is: what degree of awareness of one's own mortality qualifes you for BASE jumping and/or any other inherently life threatening sport? A sixteen year old rarely possesses the ability to conceptualize his or her own death. Hell, I've mulled over for roughly 24 years, and I can barely come to terms that one day I won't be among the living. It would be interesting to see what Matthew has to say about the high stakes game. Maybe he is wise beyond his years, or perhaps he has been coerced into the glorification of jumping. His word would speak volumes. In either case, I'd hope a mitigation of risk through more skydiving experience is pursued. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cesslon 0 #46 September 3, 2006 Quotebecause all i am saying is there are some 16 year olds that can jump and do it safely. I think the issue here with the age is, some 16 years olds who would jump will think if they do it safely then its gunna be safe. even if your the best shit hits the fan, look at slims vid. when I was 16 I thought I'd never die, some how I literally thought I'd live to be really really old then medical advancements would help me live for ever lol. I realised I could get severely injured in life but never thought I'd die. now I'm 23 that seems like the dumbest thing to have ever thought, but many 16 year olds would be thinking like that and none would admit to it, no1 would have had a single clue I thought like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #47 September 3, 2006 QuoteI just recentally took an 18 year old girl BASE jumping for her first few jumps. And yes she did have just over 300 skydives. how many jumps does you have Clair? Do you think that you at one year has become such a jump wonder that you can teach people? Sorry to say but i vote for NO and i dont care if you made 500 jumps the past year.. And the above is some of the things i dont like when younger people get off... To you BASe probaly is a cool thing to do so does most of your freinds,do you have the life experience to tell your freinds NO instead of teaching them? What happens if your freind aint as good as you and ends up hurt or killed? I would say that you both are too young to jump and WAY too young to mentor ANYone in the way of BASE... That your doing good is cool,im happy you prove me wrong by the fact your arround us today.But even as you as one person has manneged to do it dosnt mean other will.. As of 841 i think he would be better off enjoying the world of skydive whith his son for a few hundreds jumps,making sure he can save him self the day he gets that offheadding(becourse it will come),giving his son the best oppertunetyes of surviving should be the best.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klapaucius 0 #48 September 5, 2006 Quotecopy paste from skydivingmovies.com QuoteShort Description: My 16-year-old son preps for and does his first BASE jumps Description: Started skydiving when he was 15 so he could learn to BASE jump, Matthew uses a Pendulator to polish his zero airspeed exits, then makes his first six BASE jumps from TF. He'll continue to make PCAs until both he and I think he's ready to go handheld. Creator: BASE841 841, Would you feel comfortable to tell your son: I do not want to teach you, because I am your father and don't approve (or don't want to teach a family member, it's never a good idea even if we talk grade 9 math) but you are 16 and there is this BASE instructor with 100 BASE jumps and I trust him wholeheartedly with your and my life? If you say yes - help him find a mentor (good luck with that eh'). If not, well, you are teaching him yourself. And I don't think that it is a good idea, because YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. I know that I would not trust my life in your hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base695 0 #49 September 5, 2006 to base841...just curious out of your 100 base jumps how many are from the Twin Falls MacBridge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dmcoco84 4 #50 September 5, 2006 Quotebecause YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. Would you care to elaborate? Just curious as to how you feel his judgement is affected. Are you saying affected similar to "Boyfriends teaching BASE" as Tom has talked about or something different? Coco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 0 Go To Topic Listing
Clair 0 #30 September 2, 2006 I learned how to BASE jump at 16, my first jump was an A and i had no skydiving experience at all. I had 8 jumps before i did my first tandem. I have been jumping for over a year and loving it more every day. I spent my one year anniversary in Norway with a group of friends, not a bad place to be after a year. I don't think that BASE jumping is a bad idea for a "kid" as long as the person teaching has enough experience and trusts that the "kid" can handel him/herself if put in a situation that is less then ideal. Whether he is 16 or 18 is irrelevant, his maturity level and ability to act fast and efficiently is what matters. My only advice for his dad is to make sure he is ready, and be safe as you can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #31 September 2, 2006 You dodged a bullet Clair. The fact that you are alive may be due to personal skill and maturity and an incredible mentor. Perhaps you were just plain lucky. You are a statistical pool of ONE. You cannot draw a hypothesis and/or theorem from that. Your mentor is George Bushing his way through this one. "Weapons of Mass Desctruction I tell you". "It's OK for a 16 yo with no parachuting experience to BASE jump I tell you". Where are the facts / data / and a reasonable pool of experience to suggest that his actions were appropriate????? It's kind of like teaching your two year old son to walk . . . . . . through traffic. He may make it to the other side of the road, but that only proves that he was lucky, or that the traffic allowed for his inexperience and stopped. I would not like my two year old to play Frogger with traffic whilst he is learning to walk. And I certainly would not want my young child to learn to BASE jump without some prior skill development and retention. But it does not matter which way you cut it. It does not matter how you and/or your mentor want to justify your progression, IT IS NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION. And being able to judge who is right to progress the way you did is an art/skill that virtually NOBODY has the absolute talent for. Its great you're still alive and having fun. But please don't try to sell illogical, unproven, crap to the rest of the population. Your continued existence is NOT an absolute guarantee that what you did was right. You may believe it was right for you, but you should NOT try to make it right for everyone else. That is putting other people's lives in your and their hands. My suggestion for what it is worth, go learn a lot more about BASE jumping and life itself. Then teach those that are truly ready and willing, not everyone else. Quoteas long as the person teaching has enough experience and trusts that the "kid" can handel him/herself if put in a situation that is less then ideal trust???? less than ideal situation???? Herein lies the problem. You are basically hoping that a less than ideal situation does not develop so that the trust does not have to be relied upon. Let me put it to you another way, and this may be offensive and shocking, but you are not getting the point. Would anyone TRUST their inexperienced 16 yo daughter on a blind date with a bunch of sex crazed bikies. NO. And I do not give a rats arse how mature the daughter is, if she is mine, I would not put her in that situation. I would attempt to give her as much information/experience/wisdom, to stay away from that situation. My 16 yo child BASE jumping with no parachuting experience?????? Any parent who truly loves their child would insist on prior learning. As I said, I'm glad you have gotten through the early stages. But don't influence others to do the same thing. There are too many loved ones already on the list. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spider22 0 #32 September 2, 2006 Quotewhat if he gets a little cocky and decides to jump off an A gets busted and says he's done dozen base jumps does 841 get charged with neglagence? If he dies does 841 get charged with man slaughter?... My vote would be for YES! my skydivingmovies.com comment: I myself am 15 and want to get into BASE. Yes it would be awesome to BASE jump tomorrow, But if someone offered I would definatly have the brains to reject them! It would be tempting but I would prefer to make several thousand safe BASE jumps starting in 5 yrs than make only 50 starting now.... Bottom line, you and your son are tools...... .-|-.Kaint.-|-. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clair 0 #33 September 2, 2006 Yes im sure me still being alive is due to personal skill, and someone standing with me encouraging me. As for the "Weapons of Mass Destruction", there are no facts/ data, because as far as I know I was just about it. that doesn't mean that you can say that it is incredibly dangerous for a 16 year old to jump because the one girl that did learn to jump at 16 with no expirance is still alive and jumping all the time. The only way to get facts/data is to have more people do it, yeah there are millions of people who are no where near ready to base jump and would not beable to pull it off and succede at it with no other expirance, but i am sure there are a few, just like me. I totaly agree with you , it is not right for the majority of the population!!! I never said it was a good idea for every 16 year old. I am not selling "unproven crap" to the public, because all i am saying is there are some 16 year olds that can jump and do it safely. "being able to judge who is right to progress the way you did is an art/skill that virtually NOBOADY has the absolute talent for" yeah this is true but who is to say that some one is truly ready and willing. I was truly ready and willing. I had been think and researching all I could about BASE jumping for the past 8 years before i did my first jump. Everyone is different, and the # of jumps they need varrys concideribly. hmmm... i do believe that you are saying that my parents don't love me... ok whatever. You have no idea who my parents are or how much they love there kids. The reason my parents let me jump was because the trusted my choices and knew that if i wasn't prepared then i wouldn't do it they knew that this was something that i had been waiting to do for years and they also respected the fact that i had been talking to many people about jumping, and watching people jump for years. Less then i deal situations are inevitable, trusting the student to beable to work it out is what i was saying. i never said that i was hopeing that it never developed. Because hopeing never works. you are no matter what you think gonna be put in less then ideal situations. I am not NOT telling everyone to go out and jump with no expirance. Just like everyone else when asked about learning how to jump i tell them to go and learn how to skydive and get a bunch of jumps first. I just recentally took an 18 year old girl BASE jumping for her first few jumps. And yes she did have just over 300 skydives. i am not saying it is right for everyone, but i am saying that i am living proof that it can be done and it can be done safely. given the right student, teacher and object Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #34 September 2, 2006 Quotei am saying that i am living proof that it can be done and it can be done safely. given the right student, teacher and object Those are 2 different things: 1) It can be done; and 2) It can be done safely. Having done something successfully one time does not mean that it is safe. To generalize that something is safe, you need an evaluation of safety issues and a repeatable pattern of success. For example, if I give a 6 year old a gun and he doesn't shoot himself, that doesn't prove that what I did was safe. It demonstrates that there is some possibility that a 6 year old won't shoot himself. If I try to extrapolate from that and give all 6 year olds guns? Then I bet we'd be looking at some major problems. Note that this is not a comment on Dave and Matthews experience. I believe the two situations are radically different, in many different ways, one of which is that Dave isn't doing this because he wants to have sex with Matthew.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clair 0 #35 September 2, 2006 Yes you are right. but in order to have the proof that it is safe there needs to be more people doing it. I am not saying it was the safest thing in the world. i am saying it has been done and it is possiable it could be done again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #36 September 2, 2006 Quote...in order to have the proof that it is safe there needs to be more people doing it. As with the well armed 6 year olds, it's possible that conducting such an experiment, should it prove a failure, would have costs far greater than any potential benefits from a success.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clair 0 #37 September 2, 2006 i would hope that the people jumping did not think like a 6 year old, your brain has to be a little more mature than that , and you have to look at it from all angles, is the gun loaded? because if its not then the only way it is dangerous is if he throws it at some one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #38 September 2, 2006 you know.. only 5 years ago when i took up BASE i were told i were iresponsible jumping as i had kids,today this sport has improved and today its ok to jump as you has kids its ok to teach people who COULD get some maturety problems as of their age,also its ok to teach people who has nearly none or none atall experience under canopy. QuoteLetting my son skydive and BASE jump was done with a LOT of thought and discussion I hope so,as i understand you want the best to your son(all parents wants to),BUT if you really should help him then you should go skydive whith him do some canopy work etc etc i cant belive that you think that of his maturety he can handel mals at single parachute systems,that he can land presicly(and might standing),IF you had done all of that,mate i wouldnt pip up,but the fact that Mathew is young he aint all the mature you might think he is,as of his canopy experience he deafently need to learn more if you want to keep him safe. I tell you this as i care not to be evil.I think that if Mathew really wants this and you want to teach him,then make sure that it can be done as safe as posible(ie canopy control). People dies all over the world even in TF... Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #39 September 3, 2006 r.e. the loaded gun example . . .. in BASE, the gun is always loaded. The only thing that varies is the number of bullets and the number of chambers. There is no such thing as "bulletless" Russian Roullette. If you do not have that minor bit of information well entrenched in your psyche, then you and/or the people you are now teaching, are doomed. Let me put it to you in laymans terms. It is possible to stuff up and die on any BASE jump. Yes, there are many things that can be done to minimise or even remove risk. Risk mitigation is an important skill. Someone with NO parachuting experience and little life experience has a much lower likelihood of having that experience and skill to draw upon. This means that you have less ability and skill to be able to: 1 - recognise risks and hazards before they happen 2 - develop a plan of action to overcome or reverse situations prior to them occuring 3 - have the mental and physical aptitude to be able to assess scenarios as they are developing (As opposed to afterwards) AND to deal with them in real time 4- be able to honestly and critically assess your performance afterwards such that you can make incremental corrections. I for one, am not willing to risk the life of MY child to validate your point. Because it has no benefit when my child is dead. r.e. the comment I made about your parents, I have no right to say that they do or do not love you. Because I do not know your individual circumstances. But for them to think it is OK to BASE jump off antennas with NO parachuting experience shows either: - an incredible amount of ignorance - totally unfounded trust, OR - someone to lie to them profusely to convince them otherwise. It is kind of like letting your 12 year old out on a date with no curfew and no chaperones. Why not just hand them the condoms, STD/AIDS clinic phone number, or pregnancy clinic number. Yes, there will always be exceptions. Yes, there are 16 yo who can do amazing things. But it is just plain dumb not to develop some fundamental parachuting skills in a more forgiving environment prior to BASE jumping. I would be more impressed with you if you had of developed prior parachuting experience and then started BASE jumping. Concluding: since you are convinced of yourself and you will not listen otherwise, I can only say this: get nicked, build the right skills, become TRULY competant (actual as opposed to verbal), then come back and tell us how wonderful you truly are. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clair 0 #40 September 3, 2006 sence when did this discution become about me??? Oh yeah it didn't .I have only used my self as an example that it can be done safely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #41 September 3, 2006 Quotesence when did this discution become about me??? Oh yeah it didn't .I have only used my self as an example that it can be done safely. It became a discussion about you when you used yourself as an example.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clair 0 #42 September 3, 2006 No this discution has been about a boy who wants to jump. usuing an example doesn't change the subject. Cause if it does then isn't this about 6 year olds with guns? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #43 September 3, 2006 I think you have already answered your question. I guess it became a discussion about you, when you used yourself as an example. No one mentioned you first but yourself. My response was not about you. It was about you using your example as proof in relation to the original discussion. I (and some other people), are disputing your example as incomplete and flawed. Why are you offended by this? It seems to me that you are after the attention and not trying to provide a logical / valid / reasoned argument to the original discussion. The fact that you have taken this personally only adds to the growing notion that maturity is questionable in your age group. Even if you have survived a year of BASE jumping and are ready (in your eyes) to be teaching other young persons. Please explain how BASE can be done safely without prior parachuting experience? Give me some facts, data, logical reasoning. Please move away from the end result (i.e your continuing existance as proof that it is safe). If you can provide a reasoned debate, then perhaps people will respect you more than just for the "balls" that you seem to possess. They may also respect you some more for the maturity which you are attempting to convince many people that you have. I am prepared to change my views. But you must give excellent reasoning for this to occur. The ball is in your court. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #44 September 3, 2006 No, it's about a 16 yo girl with balls!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
abreit 0 #45 September 3, 2006 I think the fundamental question proposed here is: what degree of awareness of one's own mortality qualifes you for BASE jumping and/or any other inherently life threatening sport? A sixteen year old rarely possesses the ability to conceptualize his or her own death. Hell, I've mulled over for roughly 24 years, and I can barely come to terms that one day I won't be among the living. It would be interesting to see what Matthew has to say about the high stakes game. Maybe he is wise beyond his years, or perhaps he has been coerced into the glorification of jumping. His word would speak volumes. In either case, I'd hope a mitigation of risk through more skydiving experience is pursued. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cesslon 0 #46 September 3, 2006 Quotebecause all i am saying is there are some 16 year olds that can jump and do it safely. I think the issue here with the age is, some 16 years olds who would jump will think if they do it safely then its gunna be safe. even if your the best shit hits the fan, look at slims vid. when I was 16 I thought I'd never die, some how I literally thought I'd live to be really really old then medical advancements would help me live for ever lol. I realised I could get severely injured in life but never thought I'd die. now I'm 23 that seems like the dumbest thing to have ever thought, but many 16 year olds would be thinking like that and none would admit to it, no1 would have had a single clue I thought like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #47 September 3, 2006 QuoteI just recentally took an 18 year old girl BASE jumping for her first few jumps. And yes she did have just over 300 skydives. how many jumps does you have Clair? Do you think that you at one year has become such a jump wonder that you can teach people? Sorry to say but i vote for NO and i dont care if you made 500 jumps the past year.. And the above is some of the things i dont like when younger people get off... To you BASe probaly is a cool thing to do so does most of your freinds,do you have the life experience to tell your freinds NO instead of teaching them? What happens if your freind aint as good as you and ends up hurt or killed? I would say that you both are too young to jump and WAY too young to mentor ANYone in the way of BASE... That your doing good is cool,im happy you prove me wrong by the fact your arround us today.But even as you as one person has manneged to do it dosnt mean other will.. As of 841 i think he would be better off enjoying the world of skydive whith his son for a few hundreds jumps,making sure he can save him self the day he gets that offheadding(becourse it will come),giving his son the best oppertunetyes of surviving should be the best.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klapaucius 0 #48 September 5, 2006 Quotecopy paste from skydivingmovies.com QuoteShort Description: My 16-year-old son preps for and does his first BASE jumps Description: Started skydiving when he was 15 so he could learn to BASE jump, Matthew uses a Pendulator to polish his zero airspeed exits, then makes his first six BASE jumps from TF. He'll continue to make PCAs until both he and I think he's ready to go handheld. Creator: BASE841 841, Would you feel comfortable to tell your son: I do not want to teach you, because I am your father and don't approve (or don't want to teach a family member, it's never a good idea even if we talk grade 9 math) but you are 16 and there is this BASE instructor with 100 BASE jumps and I trust him wholeheartedly with your and my life? If you say yes - help him find a mentor (good luck with that eh'). If not, well, you are teaching him yourself. And I don't think that it is a good idea, because YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. I know that I would not trust my life in your hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base695 0 #49 September 5, 2006 to base841...just curious out of your 100 base jumps how many are from the Twin Falls MacBridge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dmcoco84 4 #50 September 5, 2006 Quotebecause YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. Would you care to elaborate? Just curious as to how you feel his judgement is affected. Are you saying affected similar to "Boyfriends teaching BASE" as Tom has talked about or something different? Coco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 0 Go To Topic Listing
cesslon 0 #46 September 3, 2006 Quotebecause all i am saying is there are some 16 year olds that can jump and do it safely. I think the issue here with the age is, some 16 years olds who would jump will think if they do it safely then its gunna be safe. even if your the best shit hits the fan, look at slims vid. when I was 16 I thought I'd never die, some how I literally thought I'd live to be really really old then medical advancements would help me live for ever lol. I realised I could get severely injured in life but never thought I'd die. now I'm 23 that seems like the dumbest thing to have ever thought, but many 16 year olds would be thinking like that and none would admit to it, no1 would have had a single clue I thought like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #47 September 3, 2006 QuoteI just recentally took an 18 year old girl BASE jumping for her first few jumps. And yes she did have just over 300 skydives. how many jumps does you have Clair? Do you think that you at one year has become such a jump wonder that you can teach people? Sorry to say but i vote for NO and i dont care if you made 500 jumps the past year.. And the above is some of the things i dont like when younger people get off... To you BASe probaly is a cool thing to do so does most of your freinds,do you have the life experience to tell your freinds NO instead of teaching them? What happens if your freind aint as good as you and ends up hurt or killed? I would say that you both are too young to jump and WAY too young to mentor ANYone in the way of BASE... That your doing good is cool,im happy you prove me wrong by the fact your arround us today.But even as you as one person has manneged to do it dosnt mean other will.. As of 841 i think he would be better off enjoying the world of skydive whith his son for a few hundreds jumps,making sure he can save him self the day he gets that offheadding(becourse it will come),giving his son the best oppertunetyes of surviving should be the best.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klapaucius 0 #48 September 5, 2006 Quotecopy paste from skydivingmovies.com QuoteShort Description: My 16-year-old son preps for and does his first BASE jumps Description: Started skydiving when he was 15 so he could learn to BASE jump, Matthew uses a Pendulator to polish his zero airspeed exits, then makes his first six BASE jumps from TF. He'll continue to make PCAs until both he and I think he's ready to go handheld. Creator: BASE841 841, Would you feel comfortable to tell your son: I do not want to teach you, because I am your father and don't approve (or don't want to teach a family member, it's never a good idea even if we talk grade 9 math) but you are 16 and there is this BASE instructor with 100 BASE jumps and I trust him wholeheartedly with your and my life? If you say yes - help him find a mentor (good luck with that eh'). If not, well, you are teaching him yourself. And I don't think that it is a good idea, because YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. I know that I would not trust my life in your hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base695 0 #49 September 5, 2006 to base841...just curious out of your 100 base jumps how many are from the Twin Falls MacBridge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dmcoco84 4 #50 September 5, 2006 Quotebecause YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. Would you care to elaborate? Just curious as to how you feel his judgement is affected. Are you saying affected similar to "Boyfriends teaching BASE" as Tom has talked about or something different? Coco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 0
base695 0 #49 September 5, 2006 to base841...just curious out of your 100 base jumps how many are from the Twin Falls MacBridge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #50 September 5, 2006 Quotebecause YOUR judgement is affected, no matter what you say, by the fact that he is your son. Would you care to elaborate? Just curious as to how you feel his judgement is affected. Are you saying affected similar to "Boyfriends teaching BASE" as Tom has talked about or something different? Coco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
