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Amanduh

POLL - Slider up tailgate use

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I saw a slider up line over from #7 kjerag last year.

He had WLO toggles and released 'em but it didnt clear the line over. Luckily he was in a prodigy and had tracked over the water so only got wet when he spiralled in.

so some sort of slider up tail gate may help reduce risk of line over - I personally use masking tape

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He had WLO toggles and released 'em but it didnt clear the line over.



Is there any more information and analysis on this incident? Was the line wrapped multiple times? Was a hookknife attempt made? What was the configuration of the line-over? Is there video?

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It looked to me that it wasnt (just) a brake line over the nose but maybe a D or C, bit too far to see.

From what I recall he tried a couple of deep flares to try to release the line over (which BTW sometimes works but didnt this time) then released the offending toggle. Canopy was still mal'd up and did about a 270 before pounding him in. He would have been right f#cked up if it had been on the land - but as he wasnt we couldnt be bothered doing further analysis - there was another load to catch. Human natures a funny thing eh.

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I have some Vertigo WLOs on my slider up rig, and not only are they great for a potential lineover clearing, but they make slider-up to slider-down a breeze.

I've also been using masking tape on the control lines only for slider up, wrapped sticky out, and its worked great. Additionally, I've been using tape instead of a dacron/rubber band around the tailgate lines for slider down, and began testing a second, single wrap of tape around the control lines also, since you can get up there with tape, and can't really control them with the rubber band idea. Seems like a good idea, its been working well since.

As far as masking tape and hot/humid/extended packs- A dropzone that I worked at was hot and humid, and also still put vids on VHS. When I was out there, we used the long/thin VCR tape labels instead. It was paper, advertised for the dropzone on urban jumps, wasn't going to hang up and and spin you into the ground like damp masking tape could...
Gravity Research Institute

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Open-minded as always, I see....



Ha. Very funny. :P

I just don't believe everything I'm told until I can corroborate and truly understand it. Why should I? There's far too much rubbish and/or inappropriate advice floating around out there.

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I will go so far to say that on sub-terminal slider up jumps a tailgate stages your deployment a little more, encourages a nose-first inflation and therefore more consistent openings with better heading performance.



There are other ways of doing this too, like exposing the centre nose cell, not wrapping the tail around the AB fold in the packjob...

What ever happened to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid?) Risk comes from adding complexity; I'm still not convinced that adding this additional complexity does anything beneficial that isn't already handled by something else.

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I know one experienced jumper who has SEEN FOUR people get line-overs doing slider up rollovers without tailgates. None of the FOUR could clear their line-over before landing in the snake river.



We're clearly not talking about unpacked jumps here; let's limit the discussion to packed jumps. Besides, did those concerned pay enough attention preparing their unpacked jumps? Clearing the lines etc?

Mac's question:
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Is direct control not to ensure that the slider stays up in the pack job and not descend prematurely rather than keeping the lines together until the last moment? I have always thought that this was the idea of direct control, that and as a back up to indirect control (or when indirect is not used at all). How many lines do you bite your slider to?



But doesn't the slider also function to keep the lines from flapping about and prevent line-over, and wouldn't the effectiveness of this be reduced if the slider came down prematurely?

(I just have my slider "attached" via a black elastic band to 1 line btw)

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Bring on the standard british disdain for the Perrine bridge because it's not 'real' basejumping, but if you hang out there for a while, you get to see a LOT of jumps and you tend to notice things you otherwise would probably not.



You said that, not me
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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I just don't believe everything I'm told until I can corroborate and truly understand it.



So you are assuming that you are smart enough to be able to truly understand everything?


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Why should I?



because nobody is smart enough to truly understand everything

especially people who are willing to cast themselves into the void with nothing more than a single parachute to save their life...


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There are other ways of doing this too, like exposing the centre nose cell, not wrapping the tail around the AB fold in the packjob...



I always do both of those things.


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I'm still not convinced that adding this additional complexity does anything beneficial that isn't already handled by something else.



OK, time to play the jump numbers card:

I base my statements regarding the effect of using the tailgate slider up subterminal on more PACKED slider up jumps from the 486 ft Perrine Bridge than you have basejumps in total.

For a control group I also have more slider up subterminal jumps without a tailgate than you have total basejumps.

Do you still want to argue that just because you do not truly understand why this works that my observations are invalid?

I have a lot of video of these two different slider up packjobs opening and it's interesting viewing.


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We're clearly not talking about unpacked jumps here;




Where did anyone say that?

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let's limit the discussion to packed jumps.



why? unpacked jumps are valid too.

rollovers are quite different in opening dynamics in the early stages of deployment than other unpacked jumps, but slider-up TARDS, TARDOVERS and HO-BAGS very much behave like a packed slider up deployment once you have hit linestretch


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Besides, did those concerned pay enough attention preparing their unpacked jumps? Clearing the lines etc?



I do not know.

Do you pay enough attention?

Do you truly believe that by packing super neat you will never get a line-over?


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But doesn't the slider also function to keep the lines from flapping about and prevent line-over,



it's a handy side-effect, but plenty of slider up line-overs have proven that it is not 100% effective in this regard


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and wouldn't the effectiveness of this be reduced if the slider came down prematurely?



if you start with a line around the nose or a piece of stabiliser fabric poking out between the lines and catching air, I'm not sure delaying the slider's descent will make any difference at all




on a side note:

currency has a huge effect on awareness

I was noticing all kinds of things at the end of a 17 day stay in Twin Falls during which time I did 101 jumps.

No real chance of object strike, an easy landing area and daylight makes it real easy to be able to pay a lot of attention to your deployments.

On most of my night jumps I rarely get the time to look at my canopy, I am feeling it and paying attention to the object, altitude and landing area.

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But doesn't the slider also function to keep the lines from flapping about and prevent line-over, and wouldn't the effectiveness of this be reduced if the slider came down prematurely?

(I just have my slider "attached" via a black elastic band to 1 line btw)



I think we are arguing the same point here.

Your statement seemed to suggest that the whole point of direct control was to control the lines, NOT to control the slider that will then control the lines......

Its the same as someone saying a tailgate is there to stop a line over.... its not....its to stop tail inversion / flutter / encourage nose first inflation............. which will then help to stop a line over :P

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