d_goldsmith 1 #51 August 3, 2006 Yah I read it all. It's not very clear as to whether the pilot had planned to allow it. And for all I know if two people say the pilot was going to allow it, the FAA could take his license. I've seen crazier rules. I love skydiving and don't want skydivers to have a bad impression of BASE jumpers, but it seems like the majority of skydivers are the lemmings as far as how they feel about BASE. I suggest you find some BASE jumpers and learn some shit and then have your own opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #52 August 3, 2006 Gary is just now noticing what may have been going on for many years? Interesting. Read Gary's post. He makes it quite clear he was angry. Why though? The way I read it is, he didn't hear the answer he wanted. He was disgusted. Why? The way I read it is, he didn't hear the answer he wanted. He doubts the pilot was "ok" with it. Why does he doubt it? He didn't talk to the pilot. Interestingly, Mr. Peek seems happy about the humility felt by the person caught packing his BASE rig. Legalities aside... (We all know what they are so leave it out of this conversation)... The way I read it is, he became angry and decided to put a fellow skydiver in his place. So many "violations" of different sorts occur, and have occurred, over the many years the WFFC has been going on. I find it interesting this particular non-incident was chosen to made example of. The entire thread in general is pretty stupid. It goes in circles. People kiss Mr. Peek's ass, and others think he's a jack ass... repeat as necessary. Some posts are so politically correct it's laughable. If it bothered Mr. Peek so much, a nice chat with the pilot would have been a start. Good night. Snowboarders... Skiers...My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #53 August 3, 2006 QuoteI suggest you find some BASE jumpers and learn some shit and then have your own opinion. I can't speak for gary but from the moment this was posted it was never about base vs skydiving it was about a knucklehead that was about to break a FAR which is a law.. at a major skydiving event. Had nothing to do with base as none of what I have said has anything to do with base it has to do with people freaking out without reading and comprehension of what they are reading. I am pretty sure lots of post where coat tail post without even reading or trying to understand what they actually read.. Has nothing to do with BASE..Besides I was jumping 100' cliffs without a rig 20 years ago and would be all for jumping but my Fat Ass is to big for the locals to take me on a FJC unless I buy my own gear.. now if anyone has gear for a 6'3 240lb fat ass and wants to huck me off the perrine let me know and I'm there MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fueler 0 #54 August 3, 2006 Quote Snowboarders... Skiers... Budweiser. if somebody buys me miller i probably wont drink it. what? **************************************** what!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dploi 0 #55 August 3, 2006 Both parties involved made bad decisions, in my opinion. The first mistake was even bringing BASE gear to a skydiving convention. Taking a BASE rig out of an aircraft at the WFFC is just plain stupid. BASE gear is for BASE jumps. There is a single parachute and deployments are low out of necessity. If I could jump a 13,000' wall all the time, hell yeah, I'd take a skydiving rig. Velocity, reserve, and all. The responsibility always falls on the pilot. That's for donning the proper gear, seatbelts, etc. The guy can pack a BASE rig and show off all he wants, but a smart pilot isn't going to let him on, especially at such a high profile event. Gary should have asked the pilot if he was letting BASE jumpers out of his balloon. If the pilot was, after discussion/education, adamant about letting people out with single parachute systems (which is doubtful), then he should put a FAA rep in touch with the pilot, if so compelled. This is the kind of thing that happens off DZ, or last load of the day when no one is around -- and is still risky. I mean (cough) never happens (cough). I cannot confirm or deny having done this, but if (cough) I did, it would have been for wingsuit BASE training, at dawn and at sunset, with no eyes on me. A newbie BASE jumper showing off to his whuffo friends is unjustified from any realm of parachuting experience... BASE or skydiving. And on the two... I like to do both. A lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dploi 0 #56 August 3, 2006 Oh, and I should mention that talking to the guy first was the right start, IMO. The guy was obviously being a punk. I bet he was packed slider down with a 48" PC and no the line mod for a terminal jump. Reading people's thoughts on the selected FAA rep, it really doesn't seem like a such a big deal. But I still think Gary had quite a few points of contact to resolve the situation before going to the top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base935 0 #57 August 3, 2006 Ummm. So, a skydiver who doesn't BASE jump, didn't tell the FAA, but instead went out of their way to tell an onsite FAA inspector, that someone is going to jump a non-TSO'd rig early in the morning, from a balloon, without a TSO'd reserve and TSO'd harness assemby packed by an FAA rigger within 120 days. They weren't on the load, everyone INVOLVED was good with it, but still felt a strong sense of victory when the "plan" was foiled. Take my FAA parachute D card. Oh, the only person that is able to get screwed is the balloon pilot, who makes a living flying. You really got me, Mr. Do-Gooder. Aren't we ONLY talking about a FAA enforcement of a Commercial Rated balloon pilot? Seems silly enough to post here, after all... Glad that they stopped the suicidal skydiver from trying something so silly. And if that guy that shows up at my DZ, I'll remind him and all visiting skydivers of FAR 105.17 ... Which is worse- a snitch or a hippocrite? I will accept no further arguements, my decision is final.Gravity Research Institute Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #58 August 3, 2006 What is the highest a balloon can be while still tethered to the ground? 300 feet?? Coco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base935 0 #59 August 3, 2006 I think the funny thing is that the FAA would have no jurisdiction if it was tethered. You wouldn't even need a FAA licensed balloon pilot in the basket. If you were to winch it up and down with a 486' rope, you could do it in front of the FAA FSDO, and they could only watch and try to create something to get butthurt about. Who has an extra rope and a balloon? I'll slam jumps all day long outside the WFFC next year... America, land of the free???Gravity Research Institute Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
basehoundsam 0 #60 August 3, 2006 I've got a 1200 footer and a gas powered winch...... hmmmmmmmmmm Jay Epstein Ramirez www.adrenalineexploits.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #61 August 3, 2006 QuoteI bet he was packed slider down with a 48" PC and no the line mod for a terminal jump. huh i jump my vented Flik like that all the time whats wrong whith that Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #62 August 3, 2006 Yea thats what I've heard. Coco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #63 August 3, 2006 QuoteInterestingly, Mr. Peek seems happy about the humility felt by the person caught packing his BASE rig. LOL ... on many occasions I have found myself at a DZ early in the morning packing my BASE rig(s). So even though I wasn't at the WFFC this year, I wonder what Mr. Peek would say to me if he saw me packing one of my rigs at the DZ. Would he automatically assume that I had just jumped out of an airplane with it, or would he put two and two together to come to the realization that maybe I was re-packing the rig since it had been recently used on a jump in which it was designed to be used on. News at eleven ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #64 August 3, 2006 QuoteSome people should not be at a skydiving convention trying to show off they BASE jump........... That means it's OK for other people (excluding the some) to be there with their BASE rigs!! A different slant on your comment: "Some people should not be at a skydiving convention life or an airport itself trying to show off they BASE jump Skydive........... " Division creates disharmony. Selfishness breeds division. Narrowmindedness is what holds back 90% of the population. To those who only knock and like to follow rules, excellent. Keep up the good work. To those who don't, please remember to have respect for other people and their property. That means if someone owns a DZ and they don't want someone to use their BASE rigs from an aircraft, then you shouldn't. Just find another venue/location/person. But don't be an idiot about it either. If you have no idea and very little experience, then get this or proper tuition prior/during. It is generally correct that most BASE rigs are not allowed to be used from aircraft. But this is a generalisation only. Single parachute systems ARE allowed (i.e. c.f. pilot emergency rigs). To be "legal", a system must be TSO'd by the relevant aviation authority. BASE rigs have been TSO'd (i.e. Perigee Pro in Germany). Hence, their is a governing authority that HAS accepted BASE rigs. It is possible for others to do so but there is a lot of work involved and it takes a lot of time. A pilot who allows a person to exit whilst knowlingly breaking rules is just as responsible as the jumper, but has more to lose (i.e. his/her license). TO the person who said "this is stupid", in some cases it may be, but in many others it is just your opinion. You are entitled to it. I personally have jumped from aircraft with single parachute systems and undertaken intentional cutaways on numerous occasions. Hence my opinion is slanted to the "allow it" side. However, I would temper that with my earlier statement. And that is that it is NOT for everyone. There are people out there who have a much higher chance of messing up which inevitably leads to serious incidents. So how do you control it? Well, you just make it a rule that you can't do it. That filters out most people. And the ones that are really keen will do it anyway. And now we are back at square one!!!!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #65 August 3, 2006 I would like you to read the other thread in the other forum if you have not. I'm having a difficult time understand how a number of people consider my actions ratting out when no jump was made. I don't know if BASE jumpers are more sensitive to potential FAA involvement, but perhaps that is it. So far the comments seem to follow those lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FatSnake 0 #66 August 3, 2006 "And now we are back at square one!!!!!!!!" I am shocked to read this postings. Nobody dares to really get to the point... Why in Gods freakin name do a basejumper find it interesting to jump from a balloon with a baserig. That is truly lame. It is the opposite of what basejumping can give you: speed A jump without references is a jump without the feeling of speed. The only way to get felling of speed from a balloon is to use a high performance canopy. To use a basecanopy from a balloon...that is the lamest thing I have ever heard... Get your ass up a fixed object Fly low, pull high....VKB#7 http://www.fatsnake.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #67 August 3, 2006 QuoteGary is just now noticing what may have been going on for many years? Interesting.Quote Yes, it is interesting that I happened upon this because I got up early that day. QuoteHe makes it quite clear he was angry. Why though? The way I read it is, he didn't hear the answer he wanted. I was angry because someone was doing something that could harm 1. skydiving, 2. the WFFC, and 3. balloon jumping at the WFFC. QuoteHe doubts the pilot was "ok" with it. Why does he doubt it? He didn't talk to the pilot. You are correct, that was an assumption. Since this thread started I have learned that BASE jumpng from balloons is more common than I thought. I made the assumption because it is difficult to belive that a pilot would risk his certificate for this. But, OK, I acknoledge that they do. QuoteInterestingly, Mr. Peek seems happy about the humility felt by the person caught packing his BASE rig. If this jumper never does that again I will be a bit happier, but please don't think I'm happy about what happened. I would prefer never seeing anything like that, but the jumper was so obvious about it. QuoteSo many "violations" of different sorts occur, and have occurred, over the many years the WFFC has been going on. I find it interesting this particular non-incident was chosen to made example of. How many of these things do you think I see? I'm busy skydiving, and when I'm not skydiving, I'm busy with other things. There are a lot of things I wish we could correct at the WFFC to make it safer, but we don't have enough "police" for that. The WFFC is depending on the jumpers there to help out and tell their fellow jumpers when they are doing something that puts them or the WFFC at jepardy. (But this could be a separate thread.) QuoteIf it bothered Mr. Peek so much, a nice chat with the pilot would have been a start. Once again, it was the last day of the WFFC, and I never expected to have the opportunity. I took the opportunity to do something I thought would help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mikki_ZH 0 #68 August 3, 2006 QuoteWhy in Gods freakin name do a basejumper find it interesting to jump from a balloon with a baserig. That is truly lame. It is the opposite of what basejumping can give you: speed - to practice arials in a save way - to practice to pull low - to enjoy ground rush - to impress chicks - to have fun with friends But in my opinion it's not BASE Jumping, its low altitude Skydiving with a BASE rig...Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 20 #69 August 3, 2006 Quote... I wonder what Mr. Peek would say to me if he saw me packing one of my [BASE] rigs at the DZ. I would assume you use it jumping from objects, not aircraft, and ask you about BASE jumping, which I am interested in! This is what I usually do every time I see a BASE rig. But when I see a guy at the WFFC packing a BASE rig with people at a balloon shouting to him to hurry.... You seem to be another person that thinks I do not like BASE jumping, but quite the opposite. I think it is an important sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peek 20 #70 August 3, 2006 QuoteI think the funny thing is that the FAA would have no jurisdiction if it was tethered.... If you were to winch it up and down with a 486' rope, you could do it in front of the FAA FSDO, and they could only watch ... Who has an extra rope and a balloon? I'll slam jumps all day long outside the WFFC next year... I honestly encourage you to make that happen! Previous FAA people at the WFFC did not approve the AN-2 from dropping jumpers because it was certificated as an "experimental" aircraft which cannot take passengers for hire. The current FAA folks allowed it to be jumped as a club with a membership. They simply want things to be done correctly. Once you figure out how to make these things legal, it's just fantastic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pendragon 1 #71 August 3, 2006 QuoteTo use a basecanopy from a balloon...that is the lamest thing I have ever heard... Well, not really. I have - it was one of the most sensible things I did. I did, however, put it in a skydiving container with a piggyback reserve. My reasoning with it was to practise with it in a controlled environment before jumping it from a bridge. So, there's reason #1. Practice for someone starting out. Or have you forgotton what it may be like? So, OK, I know you meant BASE rig rather than BASE canopy alone. Reason #2. It is no longer unreasonable to pull low using a BASE canopy. We know they open quick, are incredibly reliable (if packed correctly) ... I'm not saying I would do it from a balloon (maybe, perhaps ) but if you were going to do it, that would be the way. In all fairness, because you don't understand the motivation, you can't comprehend the action. That's fine, but be careful in imposing your own values on others. Richard-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #72 August 3, 2006 QuoteWhy in Gods freakin name do a basejumper find it interesting to jump from a balloon with a baserig. When you jump a big wall you might be watching the object in the beginning but by pull time it is all about the ground rush. Whether you jumped with a BASE rig off a '3 000 cliff or a balloon the ground rush at terminal velocity is the same. QuoteTo use a basecanopy from a balloon...that is the lamest thing I have ever heard... I have a skydiving accuracy rig that is big enough for '265 to '280 canopy. If I were to use that to get some wingsuit practice from a balloon so I could know exactly what my BASE canopy would open like on a wingsuit flight is that lame too? Or am I better off finding out how a BASE canopy wingsuit deployment/opening is like on my first BASE wingsuit jump? Open your eyes and think a bit more laterally, there are lots of ways you can (legally) use skydiving to prepare for and improve your BASE jumping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GaryP 0 #73 August 3, 2006 QuoteI think the funny thing is that the FAA would have no jurisdiction if it was tethered. You wouldn't even need a FAA licensed balloon pilot in the basket. If you were to winch it up and down with a 486' rope, you could do it in front of the FAA FSDO, and they could only watch and try to create something to get butthurt about. Who has an extra rope and a balloon? I'll slam jumps all day long outside the WFFC next year... America, land of the free??? A tethered balloon can't just be winched down as the stresses on the envelope are too extreme. You DO need a good pilot to raise and lower the balloon keeping in mind the careful balance exit weights, ballast and decent rates. Finding a willing pilot is the hardest part. A generous BASE'r friend with the most amazing organizational skills who owned a balloon did find such a pilot. The 1200' rope got us up to 900' AGL although most loads were 500-600'. SL-up's & downs, unpacked jumps of all types, daisy-chains, bicycle-BASE, student PCA's... I even managed to slide down the angled rope with a sling for a while before letting go & deploying (like the world's biggest flying-fox). The point here is that we were on private property doing all this without fanfare or hype. Word got out into the mainstream DZ's & to CASA here but they just left us to our own. All out loads were tethered. They (CASA) could have hassled us but it was more to the point that there was a level of mutual respect that they would not bother us and we would not bother them. On a side note - Wilton (Picton) DZ near Sydney has banned ppl from packing BASE rigs anywhere on the DZ. If you are seen packing one you can be assured that someone will run (literally) to DZ management and "rat" you out. g."Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pendragon 1 #74 August 3, 2006 It's clear to me that it's not you're anti-BASE, just looking out for everyone's interests which is, in it's own way, commendable. However, if the situation had been this: Guys in balloon shouting over to guy packing BASE rig to hurry up or he wouldn't make the load. FAA official nearby. You go up to guy packing, remind him that his actions are technically against the law, that there's an FAA official within earshot, and going up in the balloon with a BASE rig on is a distinctly bad idea. ...no-one would mind. Many would commend you on your actions. For sure, people take BASE rigs out of balloons more often than people think - but away from the eyes of DZOs and the FAA, As you said, the guy in question never made the load. Telling him off for trying whilst FAA officials are around - you're on equally good grounds to give him a piece of your mind. Going and getting someone who works for the FAA? Any particular reason??? Some would say you cracked a nut with a sledgehammer, and it is for that most posters have a problem with the way this was handled.-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FatSnake 0 #75 August 3, 2006 I was trying to use a little bit humor. Not irony, but more looking at it from a new viewpoint in a humoristic way. It wouldn't heart to put some smiles into this deadly serious forum. One more thing. If you still jump big walls because of ground rush, you are soooo last year, and truly understand your love for balloons;););) Fly low, pull high....VKB#7 http://www.fatsnake.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 0 Go To Topic Listing
Mikki_ZH 0 #68 August 3, 2006 QuoteWhy in Gods freakin name do a basejumper find it interesting to jump from a balloon with a baserig. That is truly lame. It is the opposite of what basejumping can give you: speed - to practice arials in a save way - to practice to pull low - to enjoy ground rush - to impress chicks - to have fun with friends But in my opinion it's not BASE Jumping, its low altitude Skydiving with a BASE rig...Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #69 August 3, 2006 Quote... I wonder what Mr. Peek would say to me if he saw me packing one of my [BASE] rigs at the DZ. I would assume you use it jumping from objects, not aircraft, and ask you about BASE jumping, which I am interested in! This is what I usually do every time I see a BASE rig. But when I see a guy at the WFFC packing a BASE rig with people at a balloon shouting to him to hurry.... You seem to be another person that thinks I do not like BASE jumping, but quite the opposite. I think it is an important sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #70 August 3, 2006 QuoteI think the funny thing is that the FAA would have no jurisdiction if it was tethered.... If you were to winch it up and down with a 486' rope, you could do it in front of the FAA FSDO, and they could only watch ... Who has an extra rope and a balloon? I'll slam jumps all day long outside the WFFC next year... I honestly encourage you to make that happen! Previous FAA people at the WFFC did not approve the AN-2 from dropping jumpers because it was certificated as an "experimental" aircraft which cannot take passengers for hire. The current FAA folks allowed it to be jumped as a club with a membership. They simply want things to be done correctly. Once you figure out how to make these things legal, it's just fantastic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #71 August 3, 2006 QuoteTo use a basecanopy from a balloon...that is the lamest thing I have ever heard... Well, not really. I have - it was one of the most sensible things I did. I did, however, put it in a skydiving container with a piggyback reserve. My reasoning with it was to practise with it in a controlled environment before jumping it from a bridge. So, there's reason #1. Practice for someone starting out. Or have you forgotton what it may be like? So, OK, I know you meant BASE rig rather than BASE canopy alone. Reason #2. It is no longer unreasonable to pull low using a BASE canopy. We know they open quick, are incredibly reliable (if packed correctly) ... I'm not saying I would do it from a balloon (maybe, perhaps ) but if you were going to do it, that would be the way. In all fairness, because you don't understand the motivation, you can't comprehend the action. That's fine, but be careful in imposing your own values on others. Richard-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #72 August 3, 2006 QuoteWhy in Gods freakin name do a basejumper find it interesting to jump from a balloon with a baserig. When you jump a big wall you might be watching the object in the beginning but by pull time it is all about the ground rush. Whether you jumped with a BASE rig off a '3 000 cliff or a balloon the ground rush at terminal velocity is the same. QuoteTo use a basecanopy from a balloon...that is the lamest thing I have ever heard... I have a skydiving accuracy rig that is big enough for '265 to '280 canopy. If I were to use that to get some wingsuit practice from a balloon so I could know exactly what my BASE canopy would open like on a wingsuit flight is that lame too? Or am I better off finding out how a BASE canopy wingsuit deployment/opening is like on my first BASE wingsuit jump? Open your eyes and think a bit more laterally, there are lots of ways you can (legally) use skydiving to prepare for and improve your BASE jumping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryP 0 #73 August 3, 2006 QuoteI think the funny thing is that the FAA would have no jurisdiction if it was tethered. You wouldn't even need a FAA licensed balloon pilot in the basket. If you were to winch it up and down with a 486' rope, you could do it in front of the FAA FSDO, and they could only watch and try to create something to get butthurt about. Who has an extra rope and a balloon? I'll slam jumps all day long outside the WFFC next year... America, land of the free??? A tethered balloon can't just be winched down as the stresses on the envelope are too extreme. You DO need a good pilot to raise and lower the balloon keeping in mind the careful balance exit weights, ballast and decent rates. Finding a willing pilot is the hardest part. A generous BASE'r friend with the most amazing organizational skills who owned a balloon did find such a pilot. The 1200' rope got us up to 900' AGL although most loads were 500-600'. SL-up's & downs, unpacked jumps of all types, daisy-chains, bicycle-BASE, student PCA's... I even managed to slide down the angled rope with a sling for a while before letting go & deploying (like the world's biggest flying-fox). The point here is that we were on private property doing all this without fanfare or hype. Word got out into the mainstream DZ's & to CASA here but they just left us to our own. All out loads were tethered. They (CASA) could have hassled us but it was more to the point that there was a level of mutual respect that they would not bother us and we would not bother them. On a side note - Wilton (Picton) DZ near Sydney has banned ppl from packing BASE rigs anywhere on the DZ. If you are seen packing one you can be assured that someone will run (literally) to DZ management and "rat" you out. g."Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #74 August 3, 2006 It's clear to me that it's not you're anti-BASE, just looking out for everyone's interests which is, in it's own way, commendable. However, if the situation had been this: Guys in balloon shouting over to guy packing BASE rig to hurry up or he wouldn't make the load. FAA official nearby. You go up to guy packing, remind him that his actions are technically against the law, that there's an FAA official within earshot, and going up in the balloon with a BASE rig on is a distinctly bad idea. ...no-one would mind. Many would commend you on your actions. For sure, people take BASE rigs out of balloons more often than people think - but away from the eyes of DZOs and the FAA, As you said, the guy in question never made the load. Telling him off for trying whilst FAA officials are around - you're on equally good grounds to give him a piece of your mind. Going and getting someone who works for the FAA? Any particular reason??? Some would say you cracked a nut with a sledgehammer, and it is for that most posters have a problem with the way this was handled.-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FatSnake 0 #75 August 3, 2006 I was trying to use a little bit humor. Not irony, but more looking at it from a new viewpoint in a humoristic way. It wouldn't heart to put some smiles into this deadly serious forum. One more thing. If you still jump big walls because of ground rush, you are soooo last year, and truly understand your love for balloons;););) Fly low, pull high....VKB#7 http://www.fatsnake.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
