katzurki 0 #1 July 11, 2006 This A is opened a few weeks ago by Helge (meaning he is the first human being ever to jump off of it—well, the first being anyway), and its isolated location and the good landing zone make it popular with the regulars. As you see there is an overhang but directly below are a set of guywires at a 45 degree angle. On that day the light wind warrants jumping from the overhang above the guywires. The jumper had a 90 offheading left and unstowed only his right toggle to try to turn away leaving the other toggle stowed, which was a mistake. He floated down to the guywire and backslid on it. The canopy lost practically all pressurization and fell sideways (you can't see this on video as the cameraman apparently figured it was a beautiful day for some jogging) between the two guywires (about 12 ft apart and parallel). The PC snagged the guywire and helped keep the canopy above the jumper. Then, as he finally fell off the guywire, he did a crude PCA of himself (PC still snagged on the guywire, the canopy a ball of crap) and miraculously escaped with no injuries or damage to the gear (other than copiously soiling it in industrial grease—any tips to get that nasty stuff off, by the way?) Video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #2 July 11, 2006 I would consider that "Poor Judgement" or "I knew the risks and it all worked out ok in the end and was therefore worth it."It was only a 90 offheading and he still didn´t have time to recover. take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #3 July 11, 2006 What is missing here is a Ray Losli comment...Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
padraigbrowne 0 #4 July 11, 2006 Quote industrial grease—any tips to get that nasty stuff off, by the way?) Lighter fluid , lots of lighter fluid ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sean621 0 #5 July 11, 2006 and a match...followed by lots of beers... just kidding...i would consult the manufacturer for the final solution...if there is one...glad it ended ok Share this post Link to post Share on other sites helge 0 #6 July 11, 2006 Hey, there is my cutie! (Sorry, ment the antenna) The antenna is tricky with few good exit points. I chose to exit from the far right of the lower platform at a 45° angle, in zero wind conditions. This ment canopy opening with the guy wire just below and back of me (45°). Not ideal, but the best I could figure out when up there. Exiting from the tower itself was impossible (or rather, the climb more scary then the guy wire) I haven't seen the movie yet, but it sounds scary and I'm glad he lived. PM me with detail of the jumper if it is anyone I know and take care over there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gweeks 1 #7 July 11, 2006 QuoteThe jumper had a 90 offheading left and unstowed only his right toggle to try to turn away leaving the other toggle stowed, which was a mistake. That technique, although not ideal, probably would have worked had he just held the right toggle down instead of pumping it. It looks like he is used to a much more responsive canopy and not used to a big f111 with the steering lines free. When you are not used to the unresponsiveness it can seem disconcerting that you just pulled a toggle but nothing happened. Pumping it will do nothing though. Hold it down and let the canopy turn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites inzite 0 #8 July 11, 2006 Any details on the canopy being jumped? It looks unvented on the video. It's too bad the cameraman dropped the ball on this one. It looks like the canopy and the lines between canopy and jumper "bounced" off the guy wires. The impact with several guy wires (and not just one), kept the jumper from getting hung up or dropping to the ground with an unusable ball of shit overhead. The scary thing is that the canopy visibly loses pressurization upon impact, and doesn't even fully regain it before the jumper is already on the ground. Lucky guy. P.S. That canopy looks familiar. Anyone I've jumped with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #9 July 11, 2006 Toggle grabbing on a hard object is risky. Especially ineffectual toggle grabbing. Save it for bridges if you must do it at all. Get yourself back on heading, or pointed toward a safe landing area, using the rear risers and then fire the brakes. If you're too low at that point, I mean if the landing is imminent, just rear riser land it– that is one of the reasons we jump big canopies, so you can do that . . . If all else fails – at least try and look under control. NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites garyharbird 0 #10 July 11, 2006 Ok I don't get it, We roast the shit out of coco for doing flips off the bridge and pulling unstable, but who hasn't done something like that why learning arials, but now this guy, whoever he may be, shows terrible judgement, jumps an object in light winds first mistake in my opinion, and we are all pc about it. So here i go. I'm seeing it more and more, people with low jump numbers and low experience jumping objects in bad conditions, making poor decision and mistakes. So what happened: Well looked like a pretty standard exit and not really that bad of a off heading opening 90 left, but very manageable. I don't know about u guys, but my first priority with an off heading is too stop the canopy flying forward, then get it turned around, i use rears personally. he had plenty of time to do that, it was 4 secs before he hit the wire. If you can't get a canopy turned around in that time maybe this sport isn't for u. Now lets talk about the technique he used to turn around. well slider down, lets hope he was using deep brake settings, well if u fire just one toggle and pull it down u are essentially just keeping the canopy flying straight, maybe a little too the right and everytime he pumped his toggle he would turn left, makes no sense to me. So we have established thats this was a result of the guy fu#king up royally. He really needs to find a mentor, or think of a different sport. He's very lucky to be alive, I still can't figure out what he was thinking. Sorry if this upsets anyone. Just a little frustrated with this shit happening again and again. People please find mentors, don't make the same mistakes of the past, we have the knowledge now, Learn, Use the knowledge, and stay alive. Gary Harbird Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mac 1 #11 July 11, 2006 this was a needless incident caused by SHIT canopy control....... perfect evidence to why you should not BASE early on in your canopy pilot / skydiving experience......... Fucking lucky you did not end up in room 101 as Number 101 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katzurki 0 #12 July 11, 2006 Not really, it's a regular from that area, nobody we jump with often. The canopy is an old, tiny Adrenaline sans vents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites outrager 6 #13 July 11, 2006 QuoteThe canopy is an old, tiny Adrenaline sans vents. No. That was Impy 240 (a copy of Mojo 240 by PISA). bsbd! Yuri. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katzurki 0 #14 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe canopy is an old, tiny Adrenaline sans vents. No. That was Impy 240 (a copy of Mojo 240 by PISA). bsbd! Yuri. I stand corrected. I did think his canopy's were the colors you seemed to favor tho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 460 0 #15 July 11, 2006 The same one that John v. S. made?Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites outrager 6 #16 July 11, 2006 QuoteThe same one that John v. S. made? Yes. PM me when he's back! bsbd! Yuri. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base283 0 #17 July 11, 2006 Quotethis was a needless incident caused by SHIT canopy control....... perfect evidence to why you should not BASE early on in your canopy pilot / skydiving experience......... I disagree, it was a bad call to jump in those wind condititions in my book for myself. Fark canopy control. I don't think that I would be able to get out of that situation myself. But I do think that I would be able now with my experience not to put myself in that situation unless it was an exceptional object. take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #18 July 12, 2006 QuoteGet yourself back on heading, or pointed toward a safe landing area, using the rear risers and then fire the brakes. The technique I teach is to use rear risers to correct heading until you are no longer pointed at the object (no more than 90 degrees, usually), then to switch to toggles once you are no longer looking at something. Riser turns eat altitude very quickly. I like to use them when I'm in imminent danger of object strike, but immediately transition to toggles (to conserve altitude) once I'm no longer closing on the object.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 0 #19 July 12, 2006 Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #20 July 12, 2006 >>Agreed.<< Unless you are standing on the Flat Iron Building in the middle of the night - And looking down on a bunch of pointy stuff that can hurt you - and your entire plan is, "I have to land right there, or no where . . ." Always practice to that level on the simpler stuff. NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d_goldsmith 1 #21 July 12, 2006 In this case he was above the object, and approaching it horizontally and vertically. What would you have done? Options I can think of: both risers, right riser, right toggle all the way leaving left stowed, both toggles and take left to 50% and right to 100%, both toggles letting left up and using right to turn (probably 50%)? My decision would have been bary the right toggle. Seems like popping both could cause a slight surge if the control lines go up a bit before you get the slack all the way down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 980 0 #22 July 12, 2006 QuoteOk I don't get it, We roast the shit out of coco for doing flips off the bridge and pulling unstable, because Coco thinks it's a big joke and he posted that video of what he described as a good jump of his... if this wire strike guy posts I'm sure he will have a different attitude to err is human to refuse to acknowledge that you erred and get all defensive and know-it-all is what is objectionable make sense? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #23 July 12, 2006 Couldn't have said it any better. "...he had plenty of time to do that, it was 4 secs before he hit the wire." Oh and - if you mess up at least look like you are in control. The invasion has begun LOL. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mikki_ZH 0 #24 July 12, 2006 Dude, you have to change your sign line, number 100 is not walking anymore...Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #25 July 12, 2006 True - done. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0
Sean621 0 #5 July 11, 2006 and a match...followed by lots of beers... just kidding...i would consult the manufacturer for the final solution...if there is one...glad it ended ok Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helge 0 #6 July 11, 2006 Hey, there is my cutie! (Sorry, ment the antenna) The antenna is tricky with few good exit points. I chose to exit from the far right of the lower platform at a 45° angle, in zero wind conditions. This ment canopy opening with the guy wire just below and back of me (45°). Not ideal, but the best I could figure out when up there. Exiting from the tower itself was impossible (or rather, the climb more scary then the guy wire) I haven't seen the movie yet, but it sounds scary and I'm glad he lived. PM me with detail of the jumper if it is anyone I know and take care over there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gweeks 1 #7 July 11, 2006 QuoteThe jumper had a 90 offheading left and unstowed only his right toggle to try to turn away leaving the other toggle stowed, which was a mistake. That technique, although not ideal, probably would have worked had he just held the right toggle down instead of pumping it. It looks like he is used to a much more responsive canopy and not used to a big f111 with the steering lines free. When you are not used to the unresponsiveness it can seem disconcerting that you just pulled a toggle but nothing happened. Pumping it will do nothing though. Hold it down and let the canopy turn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
inzite 0 #8 July 11, 2006 Any details on the canopy being jumped? It looks unvented on the video. It's too bad the cameraman dropped the ball on this one. It looks like the canopy and the lines between canopy and jumper "bounced" off the guy wires. The impact with several guy wires (and not just one), kept the jumper from getting hung up or dropping to the ground with an unusable ball of shit overhead. The scary thing is that the canopy visibly loses pressurization upon impact, and doesn't even fully regain it before the jumper is already on the ground. Lucky guy. P.S. That canopy looks familiar. Anyone I've jumped with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #9 July 11, 2006 Toggle grabbing on a hard object is risky. Especially ineffectual toggle grabbing. Save it for bridges if you must do it at all. Get yourself back on heading, or pointed toward a safe landing area, using the rear risers and then fire the brakes. If you're too low at that point, I mean if the landing is imminent, just rear riser land it– that is one of the reasons we jump big canopies, so you can do that . . . If all else fails – at least try and look under control. NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyharbird 0 #10 July 11, 2006 Ok I don't get it, We roast the shit out of coco for doing flips off the bridge and pulling unstable, but who hasn't done something like that why learning arials, but now this guy, whoever he may be, shows terrible judgement, jumps an object in light winds first mistake in my opinion, and we are all pc about it. So here i go. I'm seeing it more and more, people with low jump numbers and low experience jumping objects in bad conditions, making poor decision and mistakes. So what happened: Well looked like a pretty standard exit and not really that bad of a off heading opening 90 left, but very manageable. I don't know about u guys, but my first priority with an off heading is too stop the canopy flying forward, then get it turned around, i use rears personally. he had plenty of time to do that, it was 4 secs before he hit the wire. If you can't get a canopy turned around in that time maybe this sport isn't for u. Now lets talk about the technique he used to turn around. well slider down, lets hope he was using deep brake settings, well if u fire just one toggle and pull it down u are essentially just keeping the canopy flying straight, maybe a little too the right and everytime he pumped his toggle he would turn left, makes no sense to me. So we have established thats this was a result of the guy fu#king up royally. He really needs to find a mentor, or think of a different sport. He's very lucky to be alive, I still can't figure out what he was thinking. Sorry if this upsets anyone. Just a little frustrated with this shit happening again and again. People please find mentors, don't make the same mistakes of the past, we have the knowledge now, Learn, Use the knowledge, and stay alive. Gary Harbird Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac 1 #11 July 11, 2006 this was a needless incident caused by SHIT canopy control....... perfect evidence to why you should not BASE early on in your canopy pilot / skydiving experience......... Fucking lucky you did not end up in room 101 as Number 101 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katzurki 0 #12 July 11, 2006 Not really, it's a regular from that area, nobody we jump with often. The canopy is an old, tiny Adrenaline sans vents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #13 July 11, 2006 QuoteThe canopy is an old, tiny Adrenaline sans vents. No. That was Impy 240 (a copy of Mojo 240 by PISA). bsbd! Yuri. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katzurki 0 #14 July 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe canopy is an old, tiny Adrenaline sans vents. No. That was Impy 240 (a copy of Mojo 240 by PISA). bsbd! Yuri. I stand corrected. I did think his canopy's were the colors you seemed to favor tho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
460 0 #15 July 11, 2006 The same one that John v. S. made?Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outrager 6 #16 July 11, 2006 QuoteThe same one that John v. S. made? Yes. PM me when he's back! bsbd! Yuri. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #17 July 11, 2006 Quotethis was a needless incident caused by SHIT canopy control....... perfect evidence to why you should not BASE early on in your canopy pilot / skydiving experience......... I disagree, it was a bad call to jump in those wind condititions in my book for myself. Fark canopy control. I don't think that I would be able to get out of that situation myself. But I do think that I would be able now with my experience not to put myself in that situation unless it was an exceptional object. take care, space Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #18 July 12, 2006 QuoteGet yourself back on heading, or pointed toward a safe landing area, using the rear risers and then fire the brakes. The technique I teach is to use rear risers to correct heading until you are no longer pointed at the object (no more than 90 degrees, usually), then to switch to toggles once you are no longer looking at something. Riser turns eat altitude very quickly. I like to use them when I'm in imminent danger of object strike, but immediately transition to toggles (to conserve altitude) once I'm no longer closing on the object.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #20 July 12, 2006 >>Agreed.<< Unless you are standing on the Flat Iron Building in the middle of the night - And looking down on a bunch of pointy stuff that can hurt you - and your entire plan is, "I have to land right there, or no where . . ." Always practice to that level on the simpler stuff. NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_goldsmith 1 #21 July 12, 2006 In this case he was above the object, and approaching it horizontally and vertically. What would you have done? Options I can think of: both risers, right riser, right toggle all the way leaving left stowed, both toggles and take left to 50% and right to 100%, both toggles letting left up and using right to turn (probably 50%)? My decision would have been bary the right toggle. Seems like popping both could cause a slight surge if the control lines go up a bit before you get the slack all the way down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #22 July 12, 2006 QuoteOk I don't get it, We roast the shit out of coco for doing flips off the bridge and pulling unstable, because Coco thinks it's a big joke and he posted that video of what he described as a good jump of his... if this wire strike guy posts I'm sure he will have a different attitude to err is human to refuse to acknowledge that you erred and get all defensive and know-it-all is what is objectionable make sense? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #23 July 12, 2006 Couldn't have said it any better. "...he had plenty of time to do that, it was 4 secs before he hit the wire." Oh and - if you mess up at least look like you are in control. The invasion has begun LOL. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #24 July 12, 2006 Dude, you have to change your sign line, number 100 is not walking anymore...Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #25 July 12, 2006 True - done. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
