Calvin19 0 #1 July 7, 2006 so... other than less weight and parasite drag, what are other advantages to mid-height cascades on base canopy lines? is there any skydiving/base canopies with contiguous lines all around? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blitzkrieg 0 #2 July 7, 2006 if i understand you correctly... i think all Precision sport canopies (with HMA lines of course) are non-cascading. that is how the Xaos line is, and i quite prefer it. i think it would just be way to bulky for the big heavy lines on a BASE canopy though... although, i'm no engineer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yuri_base 1 #3 July 7, 2006 Maybe, less chance of snag with 16 lines instead of 32? Less confusion when you need to use a hook knife? Or what line to pull when you have a linetwist? How about just 4 lower lines (1 per riser) cascading not only chord-wise, but span-wise as well, 8-way. Or maybe 8 lower lines cascading 4-way each.Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #4 July 7, 2006 i did not know that... those are expensive however... hmmm. thank you. i didnt think there were any reasons other than performance that they were cascading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #5 July 7, 2006 I would argue there are 2 sides that argument. cascades cause snaggin problems, i think i have had a stuck slider skidiving a few times due to the cascades. I thought of it while i was packing my blackjack for the 20th time, the lines seem to bow out, at the cascades if the canopy is loaded unevenly, and it is loaded unevenly A LOT while opening, and by unevenly i mean some lines have tension, others dont at all. if all lines had a small amount of tension, there would be no problem with cascades to me. my point is that i think continuous lines on the whole canopy would stop a lot of tension knots stopping a slider, maybe thats why the performance canopy guys have them, but i know of other reasons why they would have that. when a slider is coming down a line set, it seems to get hung up all the time at the point were the lines cascade. not that its worth changing, it would suck to have continous brake lines just thinking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #6 July 7, 2006 Quote How about just 4 lower lines (1 per riser) cascading not only chord-wise, but span-wise as well, 8-way. Or maybe 8 lower lines cascading 4-way each. that was the reason i started this forum, i paraglide, and those lines cascade spanwise for a lot of reasons, spanwise cascade would give a swooping canopy an advantage over cordwise cascaded canopies... but it would have more paracite drag. -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #7 July 7, 2006 good things about cascades- weight bulk paracite drag bad things- makes a weak point mid line makes the lower part of cascaded line take 2, 4 or 5 lines worth of force might* cause tension knots/stuck sliders in paragliding it would cause uneven airfoil while trimming, as in pulling down front or rear riser on parachutes. makes replacing lines EXTREMELY ANNOYING and dangerous for a non-educated rigger. *im no certified rigger. but i know... things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yuri_base 1 #8 July 7, 2006 Quotewhen a slider is coming down a line set, it seems to get hung up all the time at the point were the lines cascade Is it possible to fingertrap the [thinner] cascades inside the thicker lower line so the cascade transition is smooth (vs. current design - snaggy loops)? Quotespanwise cascade would [...] have more paracite drag Does parasite drag from lines really matter for a 7-cell 260sq.ft. canopy with a 48" uncollapsible pilotchute dragging behind? Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #9 July 7, 2006 To answer your question no, it wouldnt do much at all. i bet its unmeasurable, but its amazing how much drag a line has going through the air at speed, in the earlier eras of aircraft designing they did not realise that biplanes were slow as shit because of drag from flying/landing wires. i guess they thought the same way, "what could 5 square inches of total surface area do for speed?" but, yeah, we aint goin nowhere fast, thats why those swoopy people pay 250USD for new thin as shit linesets. its also amazing how little of a difference a 1mm line has between a 4 mm line when it comes to drag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #10 July 7, 2006 Gin nano... i have not seen it in person, but i have seen pictures of it does it has a skydive setup or or paraglide setup? i bet its skydive, its simpler and easy to use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0
yuri_base 1 #3 July 7, 2006 Maybe, less chance of snag with 16 lines instead of 32? Less confusion when you need to use a hook knife? Or what line to pull when you have a linetwist? How about just 4 lower lines (1 per riser) cascading not only chord-wise, but span-wise as well, 8-way. Or maybe 8 lower lines cascading 4-way each.Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #4 July 7, 2006 i did not know that... those are expensive however... hmmm. thank you. i didnt think there were any reasons other than performance that they were cascading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #5 July 7, 2006 I would argue there are 2 sides that argument. cascades cause snaggin problems, i think i have had a stuck slider skidiving a few times due to the cascades. I thought of it while i was packing my blackjack for the 20th time, the lines seem to bow out, at the cascades if the canopy is loaded unevenly, and it is loaded unevenly A LOT while opening, and by unevenly i mean some lines have tension, others dont at all. if all lines had a small amount of tension, there would be no problem with cascades to me. my point is that i think continuous lines on the whole canopy would stop a lot of tension knots stopping a slider, maybe thats why the performance canopy guys have them, but i know of other reasons why they would have that. when a slider is coming down a line set, it seems to get hung up all the time at the point were the lines cascade. not that its worth changing, it would suck to have continous brake lines just thinking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #6 July 7, 2006 Quote How about just 4 lower lines (1 per riser) cascading not only chord-wise, but span-wise as well, 8-way. Or maybe 8 lower lines cascading 4-way each. that was the reason i started this forum, i paraglide, and those lines cascade spanwise for a lot of reasons, spanwise cascade would give a swooping canopy an advantage over cordwise cascaded canopies... but it would have more paracite drag. -SPACE- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #7 July 7, 2006 good things about cascades- weight bulk paracite drag bad things- makes a weak point mid line makes the lower part of cascaded line take 2, 4 or 5 lines worth of force might* cause tension knots/stuck sliders in paragliding it would cause uneven airfoil while trimming, as in pulling down front or rear riser on parachutes. makes replacing lines EXTREMELY ANNOYING and dangerous for a non-educated rigger. *im no certified rigger. but i know... things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuri_base 1 #8 July 7, 2006 Quotewhen a slider is coming down a line set, it seems to get hung up all the time at the point were the lines cascade Is it possible to fingertrap the [thinner] cascades inside the thicker lower line so the cascade transition is smooth (vs. current design - snaggy loops)? Quotespanwise cascade would [...] have more paracite drag Does parasite drag from lines really matter for a 7-cell 260sq.ft. canopy with a 48" uncollapsible pilotchute dragging behind? Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #9 July 7, 2006 To answer your question no, it wouldnt do much at all. i bet its unmeasurable, but its amazing how much drag a line has going through the air at speed, in the earlier eras of aircraft designing they did not realise that biplanes were slow as shit because of drag from flying/landing wires. i guess they thought the same way, "what could 5 square inches of total surface area do for speed?" but, yeah, we aint goin nowhere fast, thats why those swoopy people pay 250USD for new thin as shit linesets. its also amazing how little of a difference a 1mm line has between a 4 mm line when it comes to drag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #10 July 7, 2006 Gin nano... i have not seen it in person, but i have seen pictures of it does it has a skydive setup or or paraglide setup? i bet its skydive, its simpler and easy to use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
