New rig..

[RayLosli 11]

Idea's are one thing. The drive to commit that much time/effort to it. Is another thing.
It's not that I do not luv my WS or posses knowledge. I think the biggest obstacle is, I am a Lazy Slacker. ....
.

[pocbase 0]

Does the bottom of the rig get tied down somehow? If not wouldn't it flap with the lift and work the pilot chute out and then the bridle would wrap around the long bottom of the container and...?
ok ok i have about 80% more jumps slider off than slider up and still not many in total and i am just wondering if you are tying the bottom of the container down somehow or if you don't feel the need to and why...
thanks
poc

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[wwarped 0]

Quote

Does the bottom of the rig get tied down somehow? If not wouldn't it flap with the lift and work the pilot chute out and then the bridle would wrap around the long bottom of the container and...?

the VKB guys appear to know how to R & D new ideas.

remember, an airfoil creates a differential pressure between the bottom skin and the top skin. in this case, the bottom skin is his chest, torso, and wingsuit. there may be very little air pressing up against that extension.

but hey, that is what test jumps are for! good luck!

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[pocbase 0]

Yeah I'm just talking rubish again.

Good luck with the rig

poc

[wwarped 0]

Quote

Yeah I'm just talking rubish again.

maybe.
maybe not.

while I admire VBK's efforts, not all designs work as planned. they DO have a great track record.

VBK demonstrate tremendous creativity that must stem from asking new questions. so, keep asking yours!

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[dogdoghowl 5]

Consideration must be given to the disruption of airflow into the rear deflector present on today's high performance wingsuit designs. It seems that the length of this rig would cover the air inlet.

Whilst this may work with a newly designed VKB wingsuit, there may be problems with the Vampire (V1 & V2...).

Just inciting some discussion, but maybe Robi or James have some info about this?

[skydiverek 54]

I belive this new rig was designed for use with tracking suits (no deflector there), NOT with wingsuits.

[pocbase 0]

Vandev s previous post shows it mounted on a wingsuit

The bums will never win Lebowski, the bums will never win!
Enfin j'ai trouvé:
Bieeeen

[TVPB 0]

So - since we are getting creative, we might as well reveal what will become the purpose built wingsuit/rig of the next generation:

- obvious final step is that the rig and suit will be one unit. Not two connectable and integrated units. Further, the shape (aerofoil) of the jumper will be incorporated into the design of the complete system to create a very uniform classically shaped wing. When you order the suit, you will have to specify 3-d shape and the manufacturers will be able to create a system that will perfectly fit your shape.

Some of the specs/ideas follow:

- the arm wings will become an integral part of the side flaps and riser flaps of the rig.

- the bottom flap of the container will seemlessly integrate with the leg wing. There is a possibility that the canopy may be packed into cells on the legs with the central part inflated via air flow. This is to keep the solid material with the body and the inflated material separate. This is kind of like splitting the nose when packing a reserve canopy - but is will be packed down instead of up.

- the top flap will be integrated into the inflated cell design around the head area.

- the material used for the flaps will be smoother to minimise drag. No cordura anymore.

- the helmet will be connected to inflatable cells that are then connected to the shoulders. This would be flexible to allow some degree of lateral movement of the head for visibility and awareness opportunities. The intent here is to create a camber shaped profile at the leading edge of complete system/person. There may be some form of solid side extensions from the helmet to assist in the formation of the leading edge camber.

- the cell(s) created around the head and shoulders will have some degree of rigidity introduced in order to enhance the shaping at the leading edge. Ideas include shoulder pads created from a variety of materials, etc.

- the footwear/shoes will become specialised and will allow for various turbulence created from standard shapes and designs. Vortice and parasitic turbulence around the shoes will be reduced as follows: the heel area will become a continuous/tight/stretched material running down the back of the leg towards the heel. There will then be a curved section at the base of the foot leading to a thin trailing edge past the extended toes. The material at the front (shin) part of the foot will be an elasticised section that leads to a solid section that finally ends up connecting to the thin trailing edge.

- there will be a cell running from the front of the helmet (chin) towards the chest area.

- all the harness material / webbing / hardware /etc will be internally contained and smoothed over to reduce parasitic drag.

The catch, only the most skilled / best wing suit flyers will be able to get the full benefit from this suit. The average Joe Blow (which is most of us) will have to spend a long time improving our flight skills on standard designs. The suit will have much higher inherent risks and hence will not be suitable for most people. But the rewards for those special ones will be great!!!!

And there is more . . . . .but that will come at a later time.

Tom Begic

April 2006

Note: these ideas occured in 1999 but as one person pointed out, laziness, lack of resources, and other priorities prevented them from coming to fruition.

BTW - good work by VKB to actually get ideas out into a real product (even if only a prototype).

Robbie P - kad ces mi napravit jednu? ;)

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[robibird 2]

First of all, every effort in body flying is very welcome because we are such small community. :)

As far as the WS and WS specific rig issue goes, I can say following:

The WS extreme was designed in order to provide the jumper fine balance between maximum performance and versatility.

BASE jumper can use that rig for both slider up or slider down jumps, and will be able to climb antennas, chimneys, sneak through the buildings, and this rig will suit him 100%. Rig designers had a hard task to find that balance, because most of the jumpers want one rig and canopy (money issue ) which can provide them with best performance & safety regardless of the object type.

For example, combination of WS extreme and V1 or P+J will provide that optimal result. Easy to use, hike, climb....

Performance is, of course, top level. However, there are many things which can bring the performance on higher level too, but it is the question of ratio between complexity vs. efficiency. This is the main point which personally I always have on my mind.

However, many jumpers are working on their equipment in order to reach better performance...France, USA, Russia....me, Lucky are those who can do that !!!!

Norway is wonderful place for BASE flying. Topography of Norwegian cliffs is offering you more space to play than any other place. Other places have different limitations and demands. Therefore, designer's task is to find optimum for each piece of the equipment.

Aerodynamic aspects of such long rig can be discussed as well, but this is a different issue...
Regards RoBi

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

[robibird 2]

Robbie P - kad ces mi napravit jednu? ;)

Tom,
Upravo radim na gore opisanom... ali kao sto znas, ja idem van kada je stvar gotova, testirana i spremna za prodaju!!
Lijepu vecer zelim tebi i tvojima !!
:)
Robi

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

[nicknitro71 0]

Integrated suit-container-harness, now we are getting somewhere.

The only problem is, if you want to call it so, that it is going to be a BASE-only suit...I know some of us don't care but the market might be too small for all that R&D for such a complicated project. Taking sydiving out of the equation is a bold move that probably won't pay off.

So in the end we have to get our hands dirty and do what the VKB boys have been doing for a while, i.e. their own work.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[TVPB 0]

Znam Robi - samo se salim.

Molim te - pozdravi braca i Hrvatski padobranci.
Vidimo se.

TB

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[pbla4024 0]

I guess this special yoke RP and JB added to their WS-eXtremes is first and easy step.

Fido

[TVPB 0]

Hands dirty - exactly. Lots of work - definitely. Complicated - absolutely, hence, I don't think that there will be too many people who could fly it successfully.

There will be some people prepared to pay for the privilege of great flights.

The "skydiving market" is bigger than you think too.

r.e. doing their own work. Hats off to the VKB boys, and Robi P, and others.

The picture in my avatar is a home built suit. I'm all for it.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

...obvious final step is that the rig and suit will be one unit.

Tom, I'll bet you 5 bucks (American--that's like 2.7 million Aussie dollars ) that VKB has created such a system by this time next year. I'll bet you separately that such a system hits the commercial market within 3 years.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Basjkall 0]

Well, some dear to be different and dont sit around speculating. I`ve made this rig, I`ve jumped this rig, successfully I might add.. Yesterday.. I know the difference between flying a traditonal rig and this new design.. And I know what I prefer..

And what does the fact that we have big walls to jump have to do with anything? New rig designs etc, will benefit everyone, regardles of jump site.

The human flight (r)evolution has just begun, in the future things will be a lot different, take my word for it..

But I totallt agree that when making gear, it is always about compromises, one thing will effect the other, often in a negative way. If you want to make something easy to hike with and do to acrobatics with, and at the same time fly like hell, its not easy.. As you know.

But when we have so many different ways of jumping and so many places to jump, one could chose what to do, and get or make the gear beneficial for the kind of jumping one wants. And the more experienced one get, one can jump more specialised wings, rigs, and get even more fun!

Oh, I almost forgot, take a look at my newest design, completing my setup...

Some try, VKB fly..

Peace,
Andreas

[pbla4024 0]

Isn't it easier just cut ears off? :-)

Fido

[robibird 2]

head, head has to be removed !!!
I found that years ago when the human flying started!!

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

[Basjkall 0]

The reason why wingsuits have these back deflectors, is because they want the body profile to be smooth all the way to the leg wing, for reasons I`ve posted earlier. And since the traditional rig design is the way it is, they need this deflector to at least try to smoothen the profile.

My rig is designed so that the profile is much longer and smoother, giving the desired effect.
And the effect of having a truly smooth profile is much better than you can ever have with a standard rig and a deflector, because the gap betwen the rig and deflector today is far from smooth. And it need to be 100% smooth to have any significant effect!

Peace,
Andreas

[robibird 2]

From old days when the human flying started
regards
RoBi

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

[cornishe 0]

Quote

Taking sydiving out of the equation is a bold move that probably won't pay off.

Not many people are here for the money. thats what went wrong with skydiving.

-am

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[cornishe 0]

you look like a fucking storm trooper.

-am

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

Quote

Not many people are here for the money. thats what went wrong with skydiving.

>>Sometimes I think that's why some of the real veteran skydiviers follow BASE, even if they choose not to participate. It reminds the of the way skydiving used to be.

[psychokiwi_base 0]

Robi.
Why not just incorporate the leading edge of the wings with the head? The head would then become part of the wing. Or like you said, you just remove the head. That would be a neat trick.