Restrictive devices during packing.

[sabre210 0]

As is now clear (not that it ever wasn't) a restrictive device of any sort left around your pilot chute can lead to a nasty end.

However, maybe it might be a good time for us all to look at other techniques we use during our packing.

I know there are jumpers out there (friends) who tie all their lines together in the centre during their packing - above the tailgate. It seems to me that this too could easily be forgotten and if left there would result in a streamer. I understand the need to keep the lines centred to prevent one escaping over the stabilisers and the resultant line over malfunction. However, i'd take the line over as opposed to the streamer any day of the week, so why risk the latter to prevent the far less likely to be fatal former?

Counting tools is a good way of preventing forgetting such devices but it isn't infallible. How many of us carry more than one pull up when we're out on a trip, and what if you see someone elses pull up and assume it's yours. How many times have you lent someone a spare pullup? When they finish with it they throw it over and say thanks. Could you mistake that for the one holding all your lines together?

No matter how thorough we think we are, we all get tired and make mistakes. A pull up left on your lines could be a very costly one.

ian

[TomAiello 25]

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How many of us carry more than one pull up when we're out on a trip, and what if you see someone elses pull up and assume it's yours. How many times have you lent someone a spare pullup? When they finish with it they throw it over and say thanks. Could you mistake that for the one holding all your lines together?

I always use exactly the same pull up cord for that kind of thing (actually, I've recently switched to using a clamp, since it's harder to forget it in there). I mean _exactly_ the same physical pull up cord. If you stuck it in a bag of pull up cords, I'd be able to identify it. I've had people "borrow" it while I was packing, and I've ended up running around trying to find it, and not closing until I had it. I use that same pull up cord (again, exactly the same one) to close my top pin, so if it's missing when I close, I start looking for it.

I had a friend who used to use a pull up cord to pack his PC (he died in a wall strike that was not related to this practice). He always used the same pull up cord, and he'd tie it around his MLW when he finished packing. Before exit, he'd look down, and if the pull up cord wasn't there, he wouldn't jump (no kidding, I once saw him back off because he didn't have the pull up cord, even though we checked his PC and it was fine--it turned out the pullup cord was in the trunk of the car).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[460 0]

There is no reason to not invest the time to learn to pack your chute or pilot chute without such tools, particularly the pilot chute. The same philosophy holds for reserves.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[base689 0]

> I know there are jumpers out there (friends) who tie all their lines together in the centre during their packing - above the tailgate.
I did it; I was used to use a pull up cord (just below the lower part of cloth) to keep all th elines together.
I stopped doing it when I forgot it (lesson learned: NEVER finish to pack at 2:00 am, too tired to notice anything wrong), I SLed a B, was EXTREMELY lucky to walk away with it on my feet and parachute with no damage (10%: skill; 90%: luck).
That event slowed down a little bit my BASE jumping; in the meanwhile I discovered a web site where there were reserve packing instructions written and pictured by a white haired old chap who was using the freebag bridle to hold the reserve lines all together in the middle.
So I took it and adapted it to BASE parachutes: from that day/event on I stopped using pullup cords to keep the lines in the center, rather I use the bridle to keep the lines all together in the middle.
I just do a loop and a knot with the bridle just few cm's/inches below the PC (so there is plenty of bridle slack to work with and to be free to pack the parachute and so on), and, about at the end of packing, it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to leave the bridle knotted up there: sooner or later you have got to pack or to store your PC
Just my 0.02€

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[TomAiello 25]

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There is no reason to not invest the time to learn to pack your chute or pilot chute without such tools, particularly the pilot chute. The same philosophy holds for reserves.

I originally learned to pack without tools.

I now use tools on the vast majority of my pack jobs because:

a) They make it easier
b) They make it faster
c) They allow me to pack under a wider range of conditions


Basically, they allow me to get better results for the amount of effort I put in, in terms of both efficiency and quality. The same is, in my experience, vastly more true for beginners, since they are already wrestling with the mental steps of the pack job itself, and don't really need to add in a physical wrestling match with the canopy.

Tools are what set us apart from the animals.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

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I now use tools on the vast majority of my pack jobs because:

a) They make it easier
b) They make it faster
c) They allow me to pack under a wider range of conditions

a)I think using other than a pull up cord means more work
b)I dont need my pack jobs to be faster at this point i pack in 15-30 mins despire on the place and conditions were i pack
c) i agree that tools allows you to pack while its windy,however i rather use weights that clamps

I also use the exacte same pull up cord. i tie it to the 3 ring system to hold my risers together while packing(allowing a straight pull) its imposible to wear the harness as its tied there,the same pull up cord is used to close the harness,and the same pull up cord is tied to my lamp which i always chek before i jump..

Clambs used at the same place can wear out the fabrice

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Tools are what set us apart from the animals.

Tools is a learning stage from beeing an anmal

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[base570 1]

Quote

As is now clear (not that it ever wasn't) a restrictive device of any sort left around your pilot chute can lead to a nasty end.

However, maybe it might be a good time for us all to look at other techniques we use during our packing.

I know there are jumpers out there (friends) who tie all their lines together in the centre during their packing - above the tailgate. It seems to me that this too could easily be forgotten and if left there would result in a streamer. I understand the need to keep the lines centred to prevent one escaping over the stabilisers and the resultant line over malfunction. However, i'd take the line over as opposed to the streamer any day of the week, so why risk the latter to prevent the far less likely to be fatal former?

Counting tools is a good way of preventing forgetting such devices but it isn't infallible. How many of us carry more than one pull up when we're out on a trip, and what if you see someone elses pull up and assume it's yours. How many times have you lent someone a spare pullup? When they finish with it they throw it over and say thanks. Could you mistake that for the one holding all your lines together?

No matter how thorough we think we are, we all get tired and make mistakes. A pull up left on your lines could be a very costly one.

ian

A few years ago I PCA'd a guy who left his pull-up cord tied around the top of his lines. Needless to say he didn't get a full canopy and streamered into the ground at the base of the 270ft "A". Luckily he had enough canopy and soft ground to survive relatively unhurt. I thought he packed it slider up as I watched it sniveling. Talk about scary!

I while back I was experimenting with weights to help with packing and I packed a 2lb weight into my rig. It was one of those long thin ones and I had used it to help with the long folds. I got a phone call and forgot about it. As I finished packing I noticed the canopy just didn't quite fit correctly but closed the rig up anyway. About an hour later I was going over the packing process in my head and an alarm went off....WTF!?!?!... how could I have been so careless?? Did I actually do that? Only one way to be sure and that was to unpack. Guess what? I was that stupid and I did pack a weight into my rig.
Never again!
Packing has become so autonomous that when a new thing is added it can easily be forgotten until it is commited it to memory.
Using no tools is good.
Counting the tools you do use is good too!

stay safe
Jason
570

[460 0]

I can pack it faster and just as neat without the clamps as with the clamps. I once left a clamp above my A line group for a low building packjob. While counting my tools, I realized I was missing a clamp, reached into my packjob and removed it!

The thought of leaving a tool on a packjob is a nightmare. Having to carry a bunch of tools with you while field packing is just too much of a hassle.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[robibird 2]

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How many of us carry more than one pull up when we're out on a trip, and what if you see someone elses pull up and assume it's yours. How many times have you lent someone a spare pullup? When they finish with it they throw it over and say thanks. Could you mistake that for the one holding all your lines together?

I always use exactly the same pull up cord for that kind of thing (actually, I've recently switched to using a clamp, since it's harder to forget it in there). I mean _exactly_ the same physical pull up cord. If you stuck it in a bag of pull up cords, I'd be able to identify it. I've had people "borrow" it while I was packing, and I've ended up running around trying to find it, and not closing until I had it. I use that same pull up cord (again, exactly the same one) to close my top pin, so if it's missing when I close, I start looking for it.

I had a friend who used to use a pull up cord to pack his PC (he died in a wall strike that was not related to this practice). He always used the same pull up cord, and he'd tie it around his MLW when he finished packing. Before exit, he'd look down, and if the pull up cord wasn't there, he wouldn't jump (no kidding, I once saw him back off because he didn't have the pull up cord, even though we checked his PC and it was fine--it turned out the pullup cord was in the trunk of the car).

my god!!
Tom, all this story you wrote above is excelent example how to complicate your life! One of the better ways to stay calm on the exit is to forget about the tools and learn to pack tool free!!
I offten seeing people fighting with the packing and with the tool as well

Personaly I never even close my rig w the same pull up cord-can't find it after one packing

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

[TomAiello 25]

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Having to carry a bunch of tools with you while field packing is just too much of a hassle.

I often don't.

I've learned many different pack jobs. I am competent in packing without tools, and have done so many times, for a variety of objects, including buildings.

Just because I prefer to use tools doesn't mean that I am unable to pack without them.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[avenfoto 0]

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Just because I prefer to use tools doesn't mean that I am unable to pack without them.

ill second that...

[blitzkrieg 0]

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Using no tools is good.
Counting the tools you do use is good too!

not that anyone cares what i think, but since tools were mentioned, i know a few of them so i figured i'd restate my opinion again.

i wholeheartedly agree with jason. i think packing clamps are a great idea, especially if they actually work for you, and they're harder to miss in a packjob. for me, i don't feel packing is technical enough to require it. you can have the perfect packjob and still get a 180 and end up in an office window. i speculate that body position and wind will have a much higher persuasion on heading performance. but if clamps help you pack, then again, that is great. i've done some absolutely horrible looking packjobs that have actually scared people to death, and they opened on heading, but that really doesn't mean anything.
i guess what i'm trying to say is, even the count your tools rule would lose me, and it would be a serious hassle for me to remember how many and where i put them while trying to remain unseen in the dark. plus, i'm too stubborn to alter between different packing methods.
ok, just ignore all of this.

avenfoto, are you trying to bamboozle us with that second crap? i don't know what that means??

[Skin 0]

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Tools are what set us apart from the animals.

Fellatio is what sets us apart from the animals. You'd hope.

$kin
There's only one Tom Aiello...

[pbla4024 0]

Bonobos (Pan Paniscus) know both tools and fellatio.

Fido

[RayLosli 11]

You know Skin. You'd Hope that to be the truth but sadly not so.
Actually I witnessed two Orangutan in the Zoo. The large male Orangutan pulling the smaller females Head down on the O'l Flag Pole. I think I actually saw an Orangutan smile that day.
Yes Skin. Breeding is such an Ugly thing.
.

[vesatoro 0]

I use a clamp for keeping the lines together. In later stage of packing I use the same clamp in other purpose. That's how it will not be forgotten inside the packjob.
Vesa

"Fear is the path to the Dark side"
(Master Yoda)

[460 0]

This isn't a criticism of Tom's techniques. I just think the next generations should be taught to avoid certain packing techniques. This pilot chute packing tool technique has cost at least one life already. I feel strongly enough about it that I suggest it be posted as a directive at the top of this forum, much in the same way the black rubber band warning was posted.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[freakydiver 0]

Couldn't agree more. Also - if you can't cleanly pack a pilot chute or hell, even a canopy, without the assistance of external support devices, perhaps you shouldn't be hucking yourself off of objects where packing is arguably half the battle...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Lonnie 0]

What ever happened to the KISS theory?

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Adding steps only complicates a simple procedure

NEVER GIVE UP!

[flummi 0]

I use TWO little clamps for the line groups, one for each line group. Effect: both line groups are neatly separated. I clamp one clamp into the other and slide them up to the top of the lines, so when I do the first stow into the rubber band I cannot forget them. Even if they slide down, they could not be forgotten as the pouch would not close with 2 clamps in it (and, being a rigger, I also always count my tools after finishing).

flummi
* Respekt - ist uns're Aufgabe (fanta4) *

[DrewEckhardt 0]

On my first trip to the potato state, I packed without tools because the guy on the VHS tape I learned from didn't use them.

Afterwards I switched to using six big clamps and one small one. Now I like eight big clamps and three small ones. Using the tools makes for a slightly neater pack job, slightly faster pack job, slightly less work, and a LOT less hassle packing outside when it gets a little windy.

I use a big clamp to hold the lines together (it won't fit in the tail pocket) during the pack job and on my pilot chute while I'm stuffing it in the spandex pouch. There's no way it would fit in the tail pocket and would probably come off like a tail gate if it did. There's no way not to notice a 6" orange clamp stuck to the pilot chute.

[JaapSuter 0]

If you die with a pull-up cord around your pilotchute, it's not because you used a restrictive device during packing, it's because you didn't treat the sport with the paranoia it requires.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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If you die with a pull-up cord around your pilotchute, it's not because you used a restrictive device during packing, it's because you didn't treat the sport with the paranoia it requires.

I'm drunk so don't take this to serious... but I don't agree with you.
You don't know why it happend. It could have 1000 reasons that he forgot to take of the pull up cord. Unfortunatly we will never know why he did not do this... It's not fair to say something because you don't know all the details. Erros can happen and do happen everywhere. Unfortunatly they often lead to death in our sport...

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[JaapSuter 0]

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It could have 1000 reasons that he forgot to take of the pull up cord.

And how many of those 1000 make a person less stupid for dying because of it?

I thought long and hard to find a nice way to say this. I know I'm not making myself popular with this opinion, but I'll take my chances. A pilotchute is the freakin' difference between life and death. If you can't take care of it, expect shit to happen.

For the record, I don't discriminate. My closest BASE friends have promised to piss on my grave should I die on a BASE jump. There is no such thing as a freak accident; we're all in control of our own destiny. At least give me credit for my own actions, however irresponsible or stupid they may have been.

[skypuppy 1]

Maybe someone else more versed in this can say it better, but in quality engineering, they look at the frequency that something can or does fall out of spec during a process, and determine that if such things do occur, the process must be tightened up until there is no variation. Sorting is not a solution....

So, we know two deaths have occurred. We have heard of other situations where people have reopened their rigs to find a restrictive device inside....

A quality engineer would likely say to eliminate the problem, eliminate the tools....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone