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base-ethics-question

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i just watched this "OLN_Fearless"-video about jeb on skydivingmovies.com and was wondering what - concerning siteburning and day-blazing - the difference between jeb and felix is.

isn't jeb also offending against base-ethics when jumping (and showing it on video/TV) that famous object in paris at daylight and that famous bridge in L.A.?

as a non-base-jumper (not yet...) i am looking forward to reading your position to that question.

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errr. Jeb is Go Fast, Felix is Red Bull.. USA vs. Europe...

Bing to the Speaker's Corner :D
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Yo!

There was an interesting experiment that started with five monkeys in a cage. A banana hung inside the cage with a set of steps placed underneath it. After a while, a monkey went to the steps and started to climb towards the banana, but when he touched the steps, he set off a spray that soaked all the other monkeys with cold water. Another monkey tried to reach the banana with the same result. It didn’t take long for the monkeys to learn that the best way to stay dry was to prevent any monkey from attempting to reach the banana.

The next stage of the experiment was to remove the spray from the cage and to replace one of the monkeys with a new one. Of course, the new monkey saw the banana and went over to climb the steps. To his horror, the other monkeys attacked him. After another attempt, he learnt that if he touched the steps, he would be assaulted.

Next, another of the original five was replaced with a new monkey. The newcomer went to the steps and was attacked. The previous newcomer joined in the attack with enthusiasm!

Then, a third monkey was replaced with a new one and then a fourth. Every time a newcomer approached the steps, he was attacked. Most of the monkeys beating him had no idea why they were not allowed to climb the steps or why they were joining in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing the fifth monkey, none of the monkeys had ever been sprayed with water. Still, no monkey ever approached the steps. Why not? Because as far as they knew it was the way it had always been done around here...

What's the moral of the story? Don't just be another new monkey!

:)
Yuri
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i already read that one in the last days - i can not see a major difference concerning day-blazing and site-burning when comparing it to the above mentioned video...

i am looking forward to your clarifying posts.

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First of all...what an intense movie. The intro was (a little) fucked up. I mean...here you guys are...preaching your ethics, saying the press/publicity is bad, can't show the location of sites etc etc. And 1 minute into the movie they've shown sites, used the word death/die/killed a few dozen times and they actually showed somebody killing himself. Well...the fraction of a second he impacted they cut out and it was replaced by scene description by Jeb. "I looked and saw a severed leg..." etcetc.

Don't get me wrong. I liked the movie...it wasn't all sensation. But there was a PLENTY of it. That is "sensation" according to 90% of the people visiting these boards preaching their sermons. Sensation as in "telling it like it is, showing it like it happens". I don't mind...at all. I think Jeb Corliss (who I do not know) is a pretty righteous man who needed to give this a place. Maybe this documentary is part of that. But 90% of the people who saw this remembered only one thing: "Basejumping is lethal and these guys are crazy".

So...to answer to add to the debate: I think a LOT of basejumpers are self-righteous instead of righteous. It seems these so called base ethics are sometimes forgotten by people who like to preach them the most. And I know not everyone is judged the same way. I know this is not restricted to BASE...it's just the way things are.

By the way I don't see anything wrong with this movie or Jeb's activities. But I can't be bothered (nor am I hypocritical enough to do it) with bashing this Felix because he does a legal jump from some mexican building.

The commentaries on SDM, some of them anyway, are just embarrassing. As are some of the posts on this board. But what do I know...I'm not a basejumper...

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In all honesty, I think the major difference is in attitude.

Jeb (for example, but this category could include a bunch of folks like Troy Hartmann, Carl Boenish, etc) approaches other BASE jumpers with a relatively friendly, non-arrogant attitude. He understands that there are other jumpers in the world, and he makes an effort to interact with them in a positive way.

While that doesn't excuse any specific ethical transgressions, it does make it more likely that he'll be forgiven by other jumpers. If he were to do his thing and then yell "screw you guys, I'm the best in the world, and I'll do whatever I want!" at the top of his lungs, as often as possible, and as publicly as he could, he'd probably get a very different reception from most other jumpers.

Human interaction isn't that hard to puzzle out. Be a nice guy, don't blow your own horn in other peoples faces', and don't engage in an active campaign to intentionally antagonize other jumpers--and they are far more likely to be friendly and forgiving.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Human interaction isn't that hard to puzzle out.



[speakers corner]I think at least five million years of human history disagree with you.[/speakers corner]

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Okay, I'll bite.

I think the word you're looking for is 'hypocrite'. I'll call it like I see it, even if I'm looking in the mirror. I know I rationalize my difference in opinions partly on the fact that I know that about myself.

But more than being hypocritical (and potentially what justifies it), what factors most to me is attitude, medium and motivation.

Attitude: I care more about a jumper's attitude towards his/her peers than I do about their attitude to whuffos. That doesn't mean I don't care how they portray the sport, but I try to give and expect a little respect within the community. You don't have to like me and I don't have to like you, but the rebellious, in-your-face, fuck-off tone doesn't score well with anyone, BASE or no BASE. Even still, I've been more than a little guilty of that kind of tone on my own, especially recently. I justified it with 'certain circumstances require certain measures' and I'll always question what I could do better next time.
I also take into consideration what they've done in the sport. Take-all selfishness, wring-out whatever I can personally get from it with no consideration of anyone else? Or realizing a responsiblity to protect something that's given them so much and means a lot to a very small percentage of the world's population?

Medium: Are we talking made for TV, print publications, BASE videos, or manufactured stories for the news? I like most of the videos I've seen and appreciate when editors make an attempt to conceal an object location. I know that's not always possible, though...and this is where attitude and motivation factor in. Who they are, how they conduct themselves and what they're trying to do play a large part. With the consideration of medium comes the intended audience, too, and not just who will see it, but how they'll see it and how it will effect other jumpers.

Motivation is probably the biggest factor for me, and it's certainly the one that's most subject to an individual's bias. The self-aggrandizing "look at me" antics, particularly when focused outside of our community, bring my blood to a boil, especially when it effects someone else's ability to go make a jump. "Promote the sport through education and professionalism, not self-promotion. Do not attempt to glorify yourself at the expense of the sport's image or the accessibility to an object." -Adam Filipino

Did I answer your question? Probably not, but I avoided work for half an hour.

-C.

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