Stowed or Handheld for new Meat?

[Twoply 0]

Which would you recommend for a 4 second delay bridge for a first timer? Our group has went round and round with this. I know I'm right but I'd like to hear what others on the board here think.
One guy in our group, Fluffy, eats sticks of butter on hot dog buns. We don't listen to him.

[DexterBase 0]

First BASE jump ever?

[dmcoco84 4]

I'd say Hand Held. If they go off unstable not only is it quicker to throw than to reach back for a stowed pc but it will also reduce the risk of getting more unstable by reaching back. I did my first 3 jumps HH and my 4th Stowed. I felt a lot better about going stowed because of it.

Also, as long as you use a proper method for a HH delay, it shouldn’t matter between 2 seconds and 5 seconds. With the way I hold my pc for HH jumps I’d have no problem doing a long delay.

Coco

[RayLosli 11]

If that will be his/her first BASE jump ever done ? The 4-sec. delay isn't gona happen.
Very-very unlikely that a 1st time jumper can actually hold 4 seconds without pitching the PC. It is rare that the 1st time BASE jumpers brain will actually tell/relay factual delay info. time. Personally I have witnessed 1st time BASE jumpers that had Towers and Cliffs with a 900-1800 feet to impact that could not even do a 4-Sec. delay.
They could not physically/mentally, override there brains natural instinct survival line. They had to pitch. They had no choice.
example: 1st time jumper.
cookie-dough 1st time jump pussy says. " Hey you see my 4 Second delay ?"
I say, " No I did not but the Video Camera captured your 1.5 sec. delay." ....
but hey lets say that the 1st time BASE jumper was doing a 4-sec. freefall delay. With a firm 5.8 sec. hard-deck to impact. Then I say YES go Hand Held with PC.
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[Mikki_ZH 0]

if it's a pin rig, I would not recommend a 4 second handheld any time. The risk of getting to much force on your bridle is very high...

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[dmcoco84 4]

HAHA, so true! My first A jump (3rd jump) I was planning a 3 second delay. I did a 1-sec delay! It was so funny. Right when I pitched I was like. s**t that wasn't three seconds!

Coco

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If that will be his/her first BASE jump ever done ? The 4-sec. delay isn't gona happen.
Very-very unlikely that a 1st time jumper can actually hold 4 seconds without pitching the PC. It is rare that the 1st time BASE jumpers brain will actually tell/relay factual delay info. time. Personally I have witnessed 1st time BASE jumpers that had Towers and Cliffs with a 900-1800 feet to impact that could not even do a 4-Sec. delay.
They could not physically/mentally, override there brains natural instinct survival line. They had to pitch. They had no choice.
example: 1st time jumper.
cookie-dough 1st time jump pussy says. " Hey you see my 4 Second delay ?"
I say, " No I did not but the Video Camera captured your 1.5 sec. delay." ....
but hey lets say that the 1st time BASE jumper was doing a 4-sec. freefall delay. With a firm 5.8 sec. hard-deck to impact. Then I say YES go Hand Held with PC.
.

[Peej 0]

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HAHA, so true! My first A jump (3rd jump) I was planning a 3 second delay. I did a 1-sec delay! It was so funny. Right when I pitched I was like. s**t that wasn't three seconds!

I remember my first handheld in Potato land, i climb over the rail, eyes on the horizon, bail and i distincty remember looking at the pilot chute and my brain going "oh shit, what's that still doing in my hand?!"

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[dmcoco84 4]

Nice! Although I'd prefer pitching too soon than too late. Or close to too late.

Coco

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HAHA, so true! My first A jump (3rd jump) I was planning a 3 second delay. I did a 1-sec delay! It was so funny. Right when I pitched I was like. s**t that wasn't three seconds!

I remember my first handheld in Potato land, i climb over the rail, eyes on the horizon, bail and i distincty remember looking at the pilot chute and my brain going "oh shit, what's that still doing in my hand?!"

[RhondaLea 3]

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If that will be his/her first BASE jump ever done? The 4-sec. delay isn't gona happen.

I sent you a PM, Ray.

I took very close to 4.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Faber 0]

First ever BASE jump i recomend PCA,then Handheld

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[VictorSuvorov 0]

have them look down and make a choice for themselves. Or they are still in kindergarden?

[DexterBase 0]

What if they make a bad choice with limited knowledge of the subject, meanwhile, you could recommend a safer option based on your experience?

Not all decisions in BASE are intuitive. Nobody thinks they're going to have a radically head-low exit on their first jump. I still see it happen all the time though.

New jumpers need to be guided until they know enough to make the decisions themselves. So, in a way, yes. New BASE jumpers are in kindergarden. We need to keep them from eating the paste.

[pBASEtobe 0]

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We need to keep them from eating the paste.

[VictorSuvorov 0]

there is a difference in educating about the available options, explaining pros and cons and telling a person what to do. I didnot imply that it is likely that given the choice a first timer decides to go stowed. Most of first time jumpers will choose to adhere to the most conservative method.

[rendezvous 0]

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if it's a pin rig, I would not recommend a 4 second handheld any time. The risk of getting to much force on your bridle is very high...

Can you explain why would this be so?

[base570 1]

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if it's a pin rig, I would not recommend a 4 second handheld any time. The risk of getting to much force on your bridle is very high...

Can you explain why would this be so?

Sometimes if you have light pin tension, the drag from just the bridle is enough to pop the pins.

Jason
570

[Faber 0]

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if it's a pin rig, I would not recommend a 4 second handheld any time. The risk of getting to much force on your bridle is very high...

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Can you explain why would this be so?

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Sometimes if you have light pin tension, the drag from just the bridle is enough to pop the pins.

that need to be some REALLY low tention..
I jump spectra loops and freefall 180ft whith out changing the loops/tention before i jump somthing higher,and i never experienced to pop my pins just by the bridel..

I do understand the idea of it but look at a reserve bridel how big that is,that can pull out the reserve if you have reached terminal(like 7+ secs)

I would say theres a chance you could do it like there a chance that a velcro rig can pop open at terminal but for most cases i dont think so(unless you do somthing special)

Just my oppinion

Jason you looks younger than i thourght(that vid from BD)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[460 0]

Handheld.

If releasing pins is an issue, then tuck the bridle under the side flap at the bottom and on the top near the shoulder. Velcro tabs are generally used for this. Instead, two tucks will provide a level of redundancy for the non-velcro system. The bridle can pivot off the shoulder thus reducing a chance of bridle under the elbow scenario. There are simply too many things for a novice in the scary first scenarios to worry about than going stowed - and in my opinion going stowed has no good justification in such cases. And yes, some people do longer delays than others. My first BASE jump was a 4 second from a 600 foot cliff, with delay estimated by BASE 37, BASE 124, and BASE 174.

Chris

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[Treejumps 0]

I find that if you wrap the bridle around their ankles and push them off, the ones who live tend to make pretty good jumpers and aren't scared of going stowed for the 2nd. The others......


I once put a guy off an A for his second jump. I should have known better because on his first (from 800) he went stright over and pitched on his back) From 400', hand held he exits clean only to roll the windows up twice and put a complete wrap of bridle around his arm. I thought for sure he was dead. He looked at the wrap and threw immediately, as if his hand was on fire. After pulling him completely on his side it cleared and he had one of the hardest looking openings I've seen, but it was on heading.

[RayLosli 11]

This is a good point that I forgot about. There are a Small Majority out there that will do -Exactly- what you tell to do for instruction on a first jump. Down to the letter. The bad thing about this is. You don't know it till after they jump. You can't really count on everyone to be weak on the Pitch.
I have insisted on a couple first timers go Stowed on first jumps. Because of the object they were on. Combined with the fact that they had major skydive experience. The majority though I make go hand held.
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What would be the reason a -First Time- BASE jumper would have to hole it till 4-seconds till they pitch the PC ?
Do they have to clear a big belly in the wall face before they Pitch ? Is this jump a Slider-Up for first BASE jump ?
I really do -Not- like or endorse a 1st BASE student do Slider-UP on a 1st BASE jump. If that is ALL you have is a real tall Big Cliff then that's all you got.
You stand a MUCH BETTER chance of NOT getting fucked up or dieing on a nice Antenna on a breezy night or a simple open bride span as a 1st time BASE jumper.
It is much Harder and Complicated for Instructor. More complicated for the student while adding more sensory input for his/her brain to absorb and digest. To do a Slider-Up with a large delay on the 1st BASE jump. 4-Seconds is to much. So why make them do it ? They can prove they are a Bad-Ass on there 2nd jump.....
The Slider-Up BASE jump involves many more Mechanics with possibilities of problems on opening that you Only get on Slider-Up. While at the same time the 1st timer must maintain acceptable body position at higher air speeds.
The Hand Held PC on the -Simplistic Standard BASE, Hop & POP- is enough to overwhelm and brain-lock the best of BASE 1st timers. Why clutter the mechanics and make it harder if you don't have to with Slider-Up ?
The fact is you can get more positive results from the 1st time BASE jumper. When you expect less from them in the beginning.
Less is easier to Control. - Less is more for the 1st timer.
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