cliff strike in Arizona

[nicknitro71 0]

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it appears that your body position on exit was in fact, not symmetrical. Almost as soon as you exit, it appears from the video that you begin to go left shoulder low

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I'm wondering why you continue to make jumps beyond your skill set.

No doubt.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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Like everyone else, I'm glad you're okay. Unlike them--because I know who you are--I'm wondering why you continue to make jumps beyond your skill set.
rl

That's not fair. How do you know who he is? Because you have read the bounce bingo thread?? It's only the Internet!
How do you know that he is jumping beyound his skills? Everyone can fuck up a jump. In the video you can see that he droped a shoulder which has caused the ofheading. That was bad but it can happen. He did a good job saving his ass which in the end is all that counts.
I did not like veter on the bounce bingo thread but I will not judge him because of this in BASE Jumping.

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[RhondaLea 3]

You made a lot of points, but none of them seems to speak to your thesis, i.e., that my post is not fair.

Feel free to jump with him. It doesn't matter to me.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Faber 0]

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Feel free to jump with him. It doesn't matter to me.

becourse you only post and dont jump?

Im whith Mikki here,that were a shitty post
but im on the dark side so who cares

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[RhondaLea 3]

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Feel free to jump with him. It doesn't matter to me.

becourse you only post and dont jump?

There are a lot of people who post here but don't jump, Faber.

But I have jumped. And I spent a lot of time and money on base, even though it never benefited me directly.

So what does my posting but not jumping have to do with it?

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Im whith Mikki here,that were a shitty post

Yeah, well, I see a lot of shitty, stupid stuff on this board. You'll get over it, just like I have.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[TomAiello 25]

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That's not fair. How do you know who he is?

NickNitro, who posted an agreement, is a more experienced jumper in the same area, though. I'd guess that he knows who Yuri is.

For what it's worth, I've jumped with Yuri here, and I'd say his skillset is more or less on par with most BASE jumpers at his experience level.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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Feel free to jump with him. It doesn't matter to me.

rl

Why do you tell me to feel free to jump with him and why do you need to say it does not matter to you? I don't get it. What's the conection to my post?

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[Faber 0]

stating somthing about a person on the boards whith out telling about for what reasson is just like a personal attack whith out a reasson to me.

I think Yuri_BASE has posted a good post that others can learn from,bashing him on that can only lead others not to post similar,leaving us behind and not learning anything..

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But I have jumped. And I spent a lot of time and money on base, even though it never benefited me directly.

So what does my posting but not jumping have to do with it?

as i recall you commented his skills atleast he tryes to be better all i see is you beeing negative were ever you post..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[RhondaLea 3]

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as i recall you commented his skills atleast he tryes to be better all i see is you beeing negative were ever you post..

I said he went beyond his skill set. I also said that this is something he has done before.

You clearly have (and have had for some time) a problem with me, but that's not the subject of the thread. And every time I counter one of your personal issues with me, rather than acknowledge it, you come up with another one. It is not essential to my self-esteem that you like me. I really don't care. Just try to stick to the subject.

If you think he demonstrated that he did not go beyond his skill set on this jump, then say so. That's the issue.

You think I'm negative. Message received. The best thing to do about negativity is to avoid it, so why don't you just avoid me? Please.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[TomAiello 25]

RhondaLea, Faber,

Cut it out, guys. This thread is about a specific incident. The jumper's history could be pertinent to that. The history between the two of you is not.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[shunkka 0]

ok... can u guys/gals (mikki_zh- i only reply to ur post... it`s not about u) stop with this kind of posts?
we (me and probably others) are here to learn...
this thread start (thanks Jaap) a good new thread... about going stowed with a 48 PC.
why everytime someone have to say something about X jumper or Y jumper?
can we keep (technical threads) clean of this shit?
thanks

sorry for my silly english (it`s not my native language)

PS...yuri... ur left hand goes to back just before deploy? or in the time of deploying?

-------------------------
"jump, have fun, pull"

[TomDancs 0]

Hi,

Mother Teresa Here!

Everyone is over analyzing this symphony! Cliff strikes happen, even if you do everything "perfectly"! That's the long and the short of it...

Had I known at the time that Yuri was using a 48 inch PC, I would have said something, as would have the rest of the load I am assuming!

Yuri you did do a great job in salvaging a bad situation!

Tom Dancs

[soyuz 0]

I think it was Adam Fillipino a few years back who said "If you havnt had a 180 - you will!". They often come when you least expect it - my first one did! Any new jumpers - take note.

[nicknitro71 0]

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Everyone is over analyzing this symphony! Cliff strikes happen, even if you do everything "perfectly"! That's the long and the short of it...

Sure but he did not do everything right.

Frst there is no need to use a 48 off a 450 cliff when going stowed.

Second @ 38 jumps I think it's too early to jump a cliff and go stowed at the same time. His body position is a clear example of his inexperience. But hey a friend of mine jumped off a cliff with only 2 BASE prior so I guess it makes it OK.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1621484;search_string=broken%20back;#1621484

We see it every day. People jumping off cliffs with little to no experience. Jumping a cliff of any height is a serious business that many fail to realize.

In the end I think the Potato Bridge is hurting more people than helping them.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[dmcoco84 4]

Heck yea. You get one just "because its Wednesday." I had my first one a month ago. 14th jump I believe. 900 A 6 second delay. Opened up and I had a nice view of the tower the guy wires.
Coco

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I think it was Adam Fillipino a few years back who said "If you havnt had a 180 - you will!". They often come when you least expect it - my first one did! Any new jumpers - take note.

[KMonster 0]

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Second @ 38 jumps I think it's too early to jump a cliff and go stowed at the same time. His body position is a clear example of his inexperience. But hey a friend of mine jumped off a cliff with only 2 BASE prior so I guess it makes it OK.

I disagree with this. If a jumper has 38 jumps and is going to jump a cliff, it depends on whether or not that particular jumper is more comfortable going stowed or handheld. What kind of jumps lead up to the cliff? If it was a bunch of handheld jumps, he/she should probably go handheld, but if his/her last 30 jumps were rock-solid stowed jumps, go stowed.

When I did my first cliff I had about 40-45 jumps and the people I was there with asked if I was going to go handheld. I decided to go stowed because I was more comfortable with it. (Jumping the frozen pizza).

Yeah, Yuri dipped his shoulder. He had a 180 and he fought and fixed it. I have dipped my shoulder before too, once in awhile it happens. Maybe what we could take away from this instead of bickering is: Take an extra second to think about your exit before you jump, like you did when you were first learning.

Anyway, I should probably start paying attention...I'm in class right now

Katie.

[JaapSuter 0]

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it depends on whether or not that particular jumper is more comfortable going stowed or handheld

I'm going to have to disagree with this, although I'll admit that it could be matter of opinion. I belief a jumper shouldn't be going stowed until he's absolutely comfortable going handheld. That way, it's never an issue.

I've talked to jumpers who are firm believers in going stowed. They did two handheld jumps during their FJC because they had to, but once they "got it over with" they went stowed and never looked back.

To me, this sounds a lot like AFF skydivers who get really scared when they start going lower and have to do their first hop and pop. Some day they're going to have to bail out of a plane at low altitude and they'll have trouble. Static-liners on the other hand will probably do fine.

If you're not comfortable going handheld, you have no place going stowed. Going handheld is an incredibly useful technique and it should be a mandatory skill for any BASE jumper.

But that's just my opinion as a romantic old-schooler born in the wrong day and age...

P.s. kick-ass new avatar Katie!

[dploi 0]

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Edit: Add pic or armor in use. And... with your strike, after watching the video a couple times, with that jacket your arm would have been totally fine.

I love that jump. Will have to hit you guys up next time I'm in the area.

[DexterBase 0]

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I belief a jumper shouldn't be going stowed until he's absolutely comfortable going handheld. That way, it's never an issue.

And I'll have to disagree with you, Jaap.

Are you more likely to have a solid, stable exit if you go hand-held or stowed? You could argue either side.

I believe hand-held and stowed jumps are separate skills that need to be honed independently. Also, there are sub-categories to each method. You not only have to be able to do a solid hand-held delay, but you need to be able to use it differently for different types of jumps.

You may take a longer delay hand-held in one situation, where you would take a shorter delay stowed in other situations.

Sometimes where it would be ideal to go hand-held, you have to go stowed because of the exit point.

If you're demonstrating the ability to do stable launches and you've been going stowed for a while, I don't see any reason why you should just go hand-held "just because".

If there's not a reason to go hand-held, and you're doing a jump where its acceptable to go stowed, why would you opt to pull out your PC and put it in your hand?

Would you recommend that every BASE jumper do 60 hand-held jumps before they ever go stowed? Because just because you're comfortable with something, doesn't mean you're doing it right. I'm willing to bet that if you did 100 hand-held jumps, you'd discover things you could do better and work on them. The more you learn, the more you come to understand what you didn't realize you needed to learn.

So, if no BASE jumper should go stowed until they're absolutely comfortable with it, how many hand-held jumps did you do before you decided to try a stowed jump?

Stowed and hand-held jumps should be practiced continuously. If you haven't done a hand-held jump in fifty jumps or so, it can't hurt to pull your PC out and get a little currency back. Likewise, if you're super current with stowed jumps, you might have a better exit if you go stowed.

There's a time and a place for everything. There's a perfect scenario for everything too, but in BASE, you have to build each and every jump from scratch. No two jumps are the same.

Understand the pro's and con's of everything you can anticipate, then make the decisions from there.

[KMonster 0]

I don't want it to look like Chad and I are teaming up on you, but I agree with what he said.

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P.s. kick-ass new avatar Katie!

Thanks, Tom Manship sent me that avatar awhile ago. I was thinking about him so I dug it out of the archives and decided to use it.

[JaapSuter 0]

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And I'll have to disagree with you, Jaap.

By all means, please do...
Interestingly enough, I don't disagree with you at all. There's a time and place for either going stowed and going handheld. We're just talking about different things.

I think the confusion comes from the difference between skill and apprioriateness versus what's comfortable to a person.

The point I was trying to make is that I've run into people who will go stowed on a jump, even when it's more appropriate to go handheld delay- and height-wise, because they're not comfortable going handheld.

I just checked my logbook and I went stowed after two PCAs and three handheld jumps. Certainly I wasn't at the prime of my handheld skills at that time. Even today I'm sure I could improve my handheld technique.

However, I was comfortable going handheld and I understood the motivation (especially when you're starting out and there is higher risk of unstable launches), the preparation (bridle-routing and PC folding) and the motions (how to pitch without inducing much oscillations or tangling the bridle).

This is what's important to me. Once you get that, by all means start doing stowed jumps. But at the same time, when you do find yourself at the top of your first cliff jump with a 48 inch pilotchute about to take a very short delay, you will know that a handheld jump is probably a wiser thing to do and you will feel comfortable switching to it.

Early on in your BASE career you will run into more scenarios where it's appropriate to go handheld than it is to go stowed, provided you don't live near Kjerag or ITW.

That's why it is absolutely mandatory, in my opinion, to be a comfortable handheld jumper before you start considering stowed. By all means make a few stowed jumps at the Perrine, but before you go home make sure you can safely go handheld.

Case in point; this particular cliff strike. Arguably he could have dropped his shoulder on a handheld jump too, but I like to think that a handheld jump would have been more appropriate in this case (based on the PC size, length of delay, object height, and jumper's experience.)

Other case in point; my first footlaunched cliff. It was jump number 44 and the first time I was to jump a cliff without a snowboard attached to my feet. I went severely headlow and the main reason I was able to come okay was because I could pitch as soon as I realized I was going headlow. I felt the canopy extract and scrape along my legs on that jump. Had I pitchd slower, like I would have on a stowed jump, I would have been pitching between my legs and consequences could have been a lot worse.

Arguably it was my unstable exit that caused the problem, but it was my decision to go handheld that saved me. Why did I go handheld? Because I was comfortable doing so.

For the record, I'm not implying that yuri_base isn't comfortable going handheld. I don't know what his motivation was to go stowed on this jump.

But I do stand by my opinion that it is important for a beginning BASE jumper, who will most likely live in a slider-down environment, to be comfortable doing handheld jumps. Skipping over handheld skills so you can go make "cool" stowed jumps sooner will only lead to disaster.

[JaapSuter 0]

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I don't want it to look like Chad and I are teaming up on you but I agree with what he said.

I'll team with you guys, because I agree with him as well...

[KMonster 0]

Now the three of us have to find someone to team up against!

[JaapSuter 0]

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Now the three of us have to find someone to team up against!

Duh! Obviously that's going to be Abbie! Hey Abbie, you done working on the highway yet? Suckah!

[nicknitro71 0]

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disagree with this. If a jumper has 38 jumps and is going to jump a cliff, it depends on whether or not that particular jumper is more comfortable going stowed or handheld. What kind of jumps lead up to the cliff? If it was a bunch of handheld jumps, he/she should probably go handheld, but if his/her last 30 jumps were rock-solid stowed jumps, go stowed.

When I did my first cliff I had about 40-45 jumps and the people I was there with asked if I was going to go handheld. I decided to go stowed because I was more comfortable with it. (Jumping the frozen pizza).

My first BASE was off a terminal wall. I went stowed. I had something like 60 skydives. Smart thing, I don't think so. In retrospect I just got extremely lucky not to kill myself but I did not know any better and the people I jumped with thought it was OK. Their rational was that all the pioneers started this way from this same wall and after about 6 sec I was going to find myself back in the skydiving enviroment.

Buy hey at 38 jumps he should have thrown a gainer as well. I guess I make BASE much more complicated than it really is...

Memento Audere Semper

903