Javelin, Mirage, or Wings?

[riggerrob 558]

Secondary risers covers are over-rated.
At the 2002 PIA Symposium, I asked Bill Booth why Vector IIIs have secondary riser covers, but not Sigmas. Bill replied that the only reason he installed secondary risers covers on Vector III was because the outer/primary riser were too shallow to hide the steering toggles. On the other hand, Sigmas have trough-style riser covers deep enough to hide bulky tandem toggles.
Many other manufacturers have copied Booth's secondary riser covers without understanding why.
Hee! Hee!

As for catapults ... there is another rig, an obscure military freefall rig built by FXC/Guardian that also incorporates a second soft pilotchute in its reserve.

[Tonto 1]

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No need to be such a Jackass about it.

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I realize my inital response was somewhat sarcastic.

Josh. You reply to my post with a one liner, and then call me a Jackass. Stick to the gear discussion, OK?

If you don't want to pay for secondary riser covers, then don't buy a rig that has them, but there's really no need to attack me or call me names because my opinion differs from yours. This is not talk back.


t

It's the year of the Pig.

[craddock 0]

I asked a legitimate question. I am sorry you did not want to answer properly, but I am not sure that makes it a "one liner". I don't see the need to throw sensless drivil in just to avoid a single sentence.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[riggermick 6]

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It was not intended to offend reflex owners or designers. There was however much controversy over the system and as far as I am aware no other manufacture offers it. I have about as much problem with those who pefer the catapult with those who prefer secondary riser covers. None
My comments stemmed from those who feel jumping without secondary covers is not as safe. It got so far as to equate it to jumping without a reserve. Thats ridiculus. I was going to fabricate another example and then the reflex came to mind.




Apology accepted.

Mick.
I admit I did use it becuase of its controversy without thought to those I may offend. Sorry

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

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I've just bought a new Wings (and the other bits second hand) as my first rig. I went with the wings because on checking out the different threads there were a lot of skydivers prefering the Wings container. Secondly I have in mind to do wingflying one day and the wings manuafacters design their rigs with that in mind, which means they have covered any openning issues so the container enhances the bag coming out squarely. That's why I went wings... I am just saying how my buying decision went...i'm too young in the sport to say any more than that.

I'm in process of buying my first rig and am considering a Wings container; however a rigger friend of mine said that it was a bitch to pack the reserve and make it look nice. She prefers Infinity or Vector 3. However many of my skydiver friends say that Wings is great.

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[Chrisky 0]

Not being a rigger myself, some riggers complain and others love it. It comes from the way their freebag is designed, and from my experience, no rigger ever complained when i payed the repack...
And i love my Wings, btw...

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[alain 0]

is the articulated option on the wings worth the extra money ?

or put it this way: if the articulated option cuts the budget for the full stainless hardware, what would be your first choice ?

[skybytch 259]

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I'm in process of buying my first rig and am considering a Wings container; however a rigger friend of mine said that it was a bitch to pack the reserve and make it look nice. She prefers Infinity or Vector 3.

Something to consider when choosing your container. With the same size canopies packed up in them, generally a Wings will be shorter top to bottom than a Vector 3 or Infinity. This can be important if you are shorter than "average" and jumping larger canopies (ie 170-ish and up).

[skycat 0]

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I'm in process of buying my first rig and am considering a Wings container; however a rigger friend of mine said that it was a bitch to pack the reserve and make it look nice. She prefers Infinity or Vector 3. However many of my skydiver friends say that Wings is great.

The wings isn't that hard to pack, it's just different. I personally think the Talon is hard to pack cause of the spring, doesn't mean I won't pack it.

When I was planning to buy my mirage I asked hooknswoop, if he thought there was anything wrong with it. He started to whine about how hard it is to pack....I told him to give me a real reason, and he didn't have one. Now he he doesn't complain about Mirages and even recommends them to people. Between packing his V3 and my Mirage, he has learned how to makes them look very pretty.

So the more your rigger packs wings the easier it will get.

Fly it like you stole it!

[jmfreefly 0]

Yes, articulated is worth the money on a Wings.

articulated, no question.

The way the legstrap is all once piece, and the full circular ring makes for truer articulation.

If you look at some newer rigs like the G4, they have moved to a 1 piece (i.e. only one attachment point) design.

I seem to remember hearing that Wings has to pay a royalty on the ring design, but they do so because it really provides the best articulation.

Stainless isn't that interesting to me. Some mfgs stainless also makes the friction adaptors (especially on the legstraps) not work as well, and loosen up. Some mfgs, like Mirage and... ? others.. use different hardware on their stainless rigs to combat this.

j

[Chrisky 0]

I do have the stainless and "the ring", but if i had to give one up, i'd keep the ring harness.
The stainless option is mostly something for the looks (had i learned this earlier, i had probably saved the money..).

Definitely go for the articulated harness, it snugs so sweet to your body, you hardly feel it.

Again, i love it!

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[Praetorian 1]

again a post where my limited experience may be useful yay

I Just purchased my first set of gear including container, I went used but ONLY because I found one that fit me perfectly, I would have liked to jump a ton of designs but in the end I setteled with trying on as many as I could. Bottom line put it on, see where the handles are and if you like the feel, I'm sorry not to give you an answer on the three you picked (all great containers and I tried them all on) but I would notice point out the thread on Infinity's customer service and ask why they weren't on your list. Another container I didn't get a chance to try but read a ton about was the new Icon. I'd check into it too if your gonna buy new

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[skymedic 0]

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is the articulated option on the wings worth the extra money ?

or put it this way: if the articulated option cuts the budget for the full stainless hardware, what would be your first choice ?

If you can only have one or the other..I'd say skip the stainless and go with the articulation. although I am a freeflyer and I love the way the wings feels as I go from head down to sit to stand and back again...I have both articulation and stainless and it is very nice indeed....but if I had to give up one I'd give up the shiny for the comfy....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Tink1717 2]

I bought my first Wings as a second system. I liked it so much that I gutted my Javelin and bought a second Wings. I haven't looked back since.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[skybytch 259]

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is the articulated option on the wings worth the extra money ?

or put it this way: if the articulated option cuts the budget for the full stainless hardware, what would be your first choice ?

If you can only have one or the other..I'd say skip the stainless and go with the articulation. although I am a freeflyer and I love the way the wings feels as I go from head down to sit to stand and back again...I have both articulation and stainless and it is very nice indeed....but if I had to give up one I'd give up the shiny for the comfy....

I agree. I'll never again buy any container that doesn't have hip rings; I noticed that much of a difference betweeen a ringed (articulated) harness and a standard harness.

I haven't noticed any difference at all (besides looks) between the standard hardware I've had on my previous containers and the stainless I have on my current container.

[diablopilot 2]

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The way the legstrap is all once piece, and the full circular ring makes for truer articulation.
***

Not true. Very rarely will a persons measure ments end up needing the top of the leg strap juncture and the lateral to be in the same place. This is sepecialy true on smaller containers. Manufacturers who use the "round" ring often have to compensate by moving the articulation point high on the body to meet the lateral. The problem now lies in the steep angle the legstrap must follow to come to gether at the ring, rather than come together at a more natural point at the mid-hip.

If you look at some newer rigs like the G4, they have moved to a 1 piece (i.e. only one attachment point) design.


The G4.1 puts the articulation point at the level of the lateral, and then has a straigt bridge running down untill the point at which the legstrap naturaly comes together. That allows the legstrap to fit and suport comfortably, and the harnes to articulate naturaly with the body, while alowing for a wide range of container and body sizes.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jmfreefly 0]

Ok, yes, tiny containers, big people, things inherently get skewed.

I believe SRI does essentially the same thing you describe, basically have a length of 'straight webbng before the legstrap Y. It may be an extension of one of the two legstrap 'ends', but I am not sure.. I would have to look. If so, that is a little less optimal I think in terms of geometry, but fewer pieces have less failure points I guess.

The 'ring' at the lateral issue exists whether the legstrap has one attachment point to the 'ring' or two.

The point about the ring versus the type that most mfgs use, is that the ring gives a bit wider variety of 'geometry play' than a captive piece of hardware. I think for most people this isn't an issue.

As for mirage, I definitely like their Unisyn harness, and I think it is probably the best thought out design out there that I have tried on. I some ways better than wings.

But all of this is a bit off topic I guess.

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[freefli 2]

my first rig.....a used javelin

second... a new javelin i waited 22 weeks for...just to get it and the colors were wrong...very poor workmanship in the whole thing..imo

now own two wings and would never buy anything else...quality, build, and customer care are top notch.....

you should hear some of the horror stories going on at the dz i jump at regarding javelins. their customer support or lack of seems to believe in "once it's out the door it's your problem".

[jmfreefly 0]

One item of note, Wings has more expensive replacement parts if you chop.. At least for my configuration/handle combo. (compared to Jav and Mirage at least)

j

[taz9420 0]

BETTER BANG FOR YOUR BUCK
AERODYNE ICON

[Dougjumper 0]

Ok, First off do your research..
Get Facts about each Rig Pro's Cons.
Then check to see which rig has been tried,proven,Tested
and been in the field awhile..
If your gonna spend big money you want someone to be there for you when you have a problem.
Dont need a Company that may Fold overnight.

Last but not least after all this is done make decision.
Get something you will be happy with, not because someone said yea this is the one you need...circumstance stuff.
But knowing what you know about your equipment by fact and enjoying it for long time will make a difference in the long run.

[skymedic 0]

when I chopped in the begining of december I lost my reserve handle. I had a new one on my rig 5 days later from Wings. when the fallinwoman chopped on her Mirage it took them almost 3 months to get a reserve handle too her.....hence the reason I'm not a big fan of that particular manufacturer. the excuses they gave were the best though. they kept changing. love it when they lie to ya.....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Unstable 8]

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Then check to see which rig has been tried,proven,Tested
and been in the field awhile..

This was reason number 1 When I bought My Racer...

=========Shaun ==========

[Mattias148 0]

Well I would go for Atom, the only con is that it is french...

"Pull low, pack fast or boink your riggers girlfriend. 3 good ways to find trouble."

[Dougjumper 0]

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This was reason number 1 When I bought My Racer...

Racers are good rigs and they have been around a while.