billvon 2,394 #1 February 15, 2004 Jumped a Katana for the first time yesterday. It was a 120 loaded about 1.7 to 1; put two jumps on it. Not enough to really wring it out, but I did get a sense of how the canopy flew. Openings were Stiletto-like but a bit less twitchy; it hunted a little but settled out and opened within 90 of heading both times. Opening took about 400-500 feet which was fine with me - soft without sniveling forever. Flight with brakes stowed was nice and stable, without the small-Diablo tendency to want to spin up before you've released the brakes. Front riser turns up high revealed low front riser pressure and a nice long recovery arc. It got up a good head of speed and kept that for at least 5 seconds after releasing the front riser. It is trimmed pretty steeply; the first time I set up for landing I overestimated how much it would glide and had to fly a low pattern with a flat turn to land. The steeper approach angle requires a more aggressive flare from full-flight, but there is plenty of flare to be had throughout the stroke. On the second jump I set up higher and did a front riser 90 to landing. It kept the speed nicely, and I had to use a little brake to pull it out of "the corner." Resulted in a decent 40-50 foot swoop in no wind conditions. It did a good job of stopping me; when I put my feet down I slid for a few feet then ran it out without much effort. It was clear that I wasn't using the canopy to its full potential yet. Once I get used to the canopy I can set up a lot higher for the front riser turn and not have to use the brakes to plane it out. That should result in much longer surfs without any other tricks. Other notes - toggle turns put you into an aggressive dive as well, but I'm not a fan of toggle-turn hook turns so I didn't play with them much. You can flat turn them with no problem as long as you counter its desire to dive. Pluses: -Nice long recovery arc, good for swoopers -Strong flare, with flare continuous throughout toggle stroke -Good openings, not too snively _or_ too hard. Minuses: -Steep trim; not a canopy that will get you back from a long spot -NOT a beginner/intermediate canopy; it wants to dive if you give it even moderate input Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #2 February 15, 2004 Sounds like I won't be flying this canopy anytime soon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #3 February 15, 2004 A certian brian would go: "But where are the airlocks?" Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #4 February 16, 2004 My mouth is watering, it may be time to retire my Vengeance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #5 February 16, 2004 Bill do you own or was this a demo from the square? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #6 February 16, 2004 How's it compare to a similarly loaded XF2 in your experience, since it seems that is its major competition in the pre-crossbraced high performance elliptical.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,394 #7 February 16, 2004 Square 1 demo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gobbi 0 #8 February 16, 2004 >> -Steep trim; not a canopy that will get you back from a long spot How about flying in deep brakes or rear risers?? My feeling is that most modern canopies have a much greater range of performance and that the steep angle of attack can be easily compensated by properly flying in brakes or rear risers. Thoughts?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #9 February 16, 2004 QuoteHow's it compare to a similarly loaded XF2 in your experience, since it seems that is its major competition in the pre-crossbraced high performance elliptical. Yes I am also curious as to how it compares. Thanks to Gillian, two people at my DZ were jumping Katana's this weekend. But I wasn't able to get a straight answer from them about the comparison. But looking at what BillVon mentioned concerning "Getting back from a long spot" on the Katana, I've got to think the Crossfire2 might have an advantage here on this point as I have been able to get back from some incredible long spots with my current canopy. Plus much of what Bill also mentioned (concerning the good stuff of the Katana) also applies to the Crossfire2. But having never flown the Katana, it's hard for a guy like me to know how they compare. But I'm sure it's a good canopy for the properly trained and experienced canopy pilot. At least that's what the jury was saying after this weekend. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,394 #10 February 16, 2004 >How's it compare to a similarly loaded XF2 in your experience . . . The only Crossfires I've jumped were the XF1 135ish size, and that was a while back. If I get a chance I'll put a few on the XF2 demo at Perris of one about the same size. That way I'll be able to compare better. About the only thing I can compare is glide angle, and the XF1 seemed flatter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cousindave 0 #11 February 16, 2004 I laid a katana on top of a BigAirSportz Samurai and it is almost identical. it flies like a samurai without airlocks. so why bother with it, i would rather have a samurai!!! David Ames Used Gear Specialists http://www.cousindave.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivingdutch 0 #12 February 16, 2004 I wonder how this canopy compares to Precision's nitron? edited: for spelling http://dropman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #13 February 16, 2004 So if you're worried about getting back from long spots w/ a Katana you're better off getting a Samurai? I've always made it back on long spots out at SDC on my Samurai. Side note: This summer my 4-way team mate and I decided to swoop and do some CRW on a nice no wind day. He took tons of photos of me under my Samurai in all different modes of flight. Fast forward to PD's first advertisement photos of the Katana. My first thought, "gee, that looks like me flying my Samurai..." It was either a full flight photo, a deep brakes photo, or a rear riser max glide photo. I'm not sure.Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,394 #14 February 17, 2004 >I wonder how this canopy compares to Precision's nitron? The Nitron is not as much of a swooping canopy. Flatter trim, flatter glide, shorter recovery arc. Not a bad canopy overall though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiveguy 0 #15 February 18, 2004 QuoteI wonder how this canopy compares to Precision's nitron? I own a Nitron 135 and have it loaded about 1.4 and I love it... but .... I love PD canopies. I want to get my hands on a Katana 135 to see what the differances are, but it is still not released yet and there is NO DEFINATE RELEASE DATE per PD (as of a conversation with them about 1 hour ago). I am not a hookturner (yet) but I am wondering if the differance between the Nitron and the Katana will be big enough to scare me away for my experience level (300+ jumps on the Nitron... was flying a Saber 150 previously) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Designer 0 #16 February 18, 2004 Seems you figured the Katana out pretty quick.We had 5 here with the 97 looking,opening better than the bigger sizes.Asked about steepness from some of the pilots and ended up telling them it helps give it better turns.Overall I liked what I saw.Think John will do O.K. with this parachute.The price is what bothers me.Do not see any reason to spend $800 more bucks for a parachute much like my Swept wing 97. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #17 February 18, 2004 You should pay for the brand! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #18 February 18, 2004 QuoteYou should pay for the brand! After 124 jumps you came up with that comment? I pay for product and customer service. How many manufacturers have come out to your DZ to see how their gear is doing? And I'm not talking about "demo" days. How about canopy seminars, etc.? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,394 #19 February 18, 2004 >I laid a katana on top of a BigAirSportz Samurai and it is almost identical. That's like saying that a Porsche 911 has the same tire placement as a Ford Escort, so why spend the extra money on the Porsche? A canopy's planform is one of the dozens of parameters that determine how it performs. Overall trim, airfoil cross-section, anhedral, stabilizer design, nose opening size, crossbracing, load tapes, line attach points, steering line trim, relative A-B vs C-D line placement, etc all have a lot to do with performance. I like the Samurai a lot, BTW. The only thing I don't like about it is that I've demoed perhaps three of them, and there was definitely some manufacturing variations. You have to get a "good" one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites srg 0 #20 February 20, 2004 Aren't the Samurais actually built by PD? "Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #21 February 20, 2004 Brian outsources a lot of them but you still can get a signature Series and have Brian make it himself.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiveguy 0 #22 February 20, 2004 QuoteBrian outsources a lot of them and I thought the IT industry were the only ones that were worried about their jobs being outsourced. It seems that even the lowest form of employee is no longer safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #23 February 21, 2004 Its more of a licencing thing. Brian posted details and asked peoples opinion of it not long ago. I think its great as it frees up his time to design new canopies and to test them instead of slaving over a hot knife and a sewing machine.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
VectorBoy 0 #5 February 16, 2004 Bill do you own or was this a demo from the square? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 February 16, 2004 How's it compare to a similarly loaded XF2 in your experience, since it seems that is its major competition in the pre-crossbraced high performance elliptical.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #7 February 16, 2004 Square 1 demo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gobbi 0 #8 February 16, 2004 >> -Steep trim; not a canopy that will get you back from a long spot How about flying in deep brakes or rear risers?? My feeling is that most modern canopies have a much greater range of performance and that the steep angle of attack can be easily compensated by properly flying in brakes or rear risers. Thoughts?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #9 February 16, 2004 QuoteHow's it compare to a similarly loaded XF2 in your experience, since it seems that is its major competition in the pre-crossbraced high performance elliptical. Yes I am also curious as to how it compares. Thanks to Gillian, two people at my DZ were jumping Katana's this weekend. But I wasn't able to get a straight answer from them about the comparison. But looking at what BillVon mentioned concerning "Getting back from a long spot" on the Katana, I've got to think the Crossfire2 might have an advantage here on this point as I have been able to get back from some incredible long spots with my current canopy. Plus much of what Bill also mentioned (concerning the good stuff of the Katana) also applies to the Crossfire2. But having never flown the Katana, it's hard for a guy like me to know how they compare. But I'm sure it's a good canopy for the properly trained and experienced canopy pilot. At least that's what the jury was saying after this weekend. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #10 February 16, 2004 >How's it compare to a similarly loaded XF2 in your experience . . . The only Crossfires I've jumped were the XF1 135ish size, and that was a while back. If I get a chance I'll put a few on the XF2 demo at Perris of one about the same size. That way I'll be able to compare better. About the only thing I can compare is glide angle, and the XF1 seemed flatter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cousindave 0 #11 February 16, 2004 I laid a katana on top of a BigAirSportz Samurai and it is almost identical. it flies like a samurai without airlocks. so why bother with it, i would rather have a samurai!!! David Ames Used Gear Specialists http://www.cousindave.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivingdutch 0 #12 February 16, 2004 I wonder how this canopy compares to Precision's nitron? edited: for spelling http://dropman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #13 February 16, 2004 So if you're worried about getting back from long spots w/ a Katana you're better off getting a Samurai? I've always made it back on long spots out at SDC on my Samurai. Side note: This summer my 4-way team mate and I decided to swoop and do some CRW on a nice no wind day. He took tons of photos of me under my Samurai in all different modes of flight. Fast forward to PD's first advertisement photos of the Katana. My first thought, "gee, that looks like me flying my Samurai..." It was either a full flight photo, a deep brakes photo, or a rear riser max glide photo. I'm not sure.Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #14 February 17, 2004 >I wonder how this canopy compares to Precision's nitron? The Nitron is not as much of a swooping canopy. Flatter trim, flatter glide, shorter recovery arc. Not a bad canopy overall though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveguy 0 #15 February 18, 2004 QuoteI wonder how this canopy compares to Precision's nitron? I own a Nitron 135 and have it loaded about 1.4 and I love it... but .... I love PD canopies. I want to get my hands on a Katana 135 to see what the differances are, but it is still not released yet and there is NO DEFINATE RELEASE DATE per PD (as of a conversation with them about 1 hour ago). I am not a hookturner (yet) but I am wondering if the differance between the Nitron and the Katana will be big enough to scare me away for my experience level (300+ jumps on the Nitron... was flying a Saber 150 previously) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #16 February 18, 2004 Seems you figured the Katana out pretty quick.We had 5 here with the 97 looking,opening better than the bigger sizes.Asked about steepness from some of the pilots and ended up telling them it helps give it better turns.Overall I liked what I saw.Think John will do O.K. with this parachute.The price is what bothers me.Do not see any reason to spend $800 more bucks for a parachute much like my Swept wing 97. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #17 February 18, 2004 You should pay for the brand! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #18 February 18, 2004 QuoteYou should pay for the brand! After 124 jumps you came up with that comment? I pay for product and customer service. How many manufacturers have come out to your DZ to see how their gear is doing? And I'm not talking about "demo" days. How about canopy seminars, etc.? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #19 February 18, 2004 >I laid a katana on top of a BigAirSportz Samurai and it is almost identical. That's like saying that a Porsche 911 has the same tire placement as a Ford Escort, so why spend the extra money on the Porsche? A canopy's planform is one of the dozens of parameters that determine how it performs. Overall trim, airfoil cross-section, anhedral, stabilizer design, nose opening size, crossbracing, load tapes, line attach points, steering line trim, relative A-B vs C-D line placement, etc all have a lot to do with performance. I like the Samurai a lot, BTW. The only thing I don't like about it is that I've demoed perhaps three of them, and there was definitely some manufacturing variations. You have to get a "good" one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srg 0 #20 February 20, 2004 Aren't the Samurais actually built by PD? "Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #21 February 20, 2004 Brian outsources a lot of them but you still can get a signature Series and have Brian make it himself.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveguy 0 #22 February 20, 2004 QuoteBrian outsources a lot of them and I thought the IT industry were the only ones that were worried about their jobs being outsourced. It seems that even the lowest form of employee is no longer safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #23 February 21, 2004 Its more of a licencing thing. Brian posted details and asked peoples opinion of it not long ago. I think its great as it frees up his time to design new canopies and to test them instead of slaving over a hot knife and a sewing machine.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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