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jimmyh

16 Year Old Deathcamper

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Its like talking to a ten year old with you Jimmy. One day, when you grow up you'll realize how stupid this is. Until then you will have your 10 year old mentality and keep doing all of the things your parents tell you not to do, just to prove you can and will do them.

It is for this exact reason that everyone knows for a fact that you are doing this for your ego. Why are you even hanging out with a 16 year old? I knew a guy who at 31 was into 15 year olds. You know what he was? A fucking demented pervert who liked underage girls. Do you discuss Hillary Duffs latest movie? How about which Simpson sister is the best singer, or which Hilton sister dresses best? There are a million reasons why what you are doing is just plain wrong but lets start with the simple ones. Your old enough to be her father!!!

Grow up.

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Tree, calling someone a "demented pervert" is a personal attack, regardless of your opinion of them.

This forum has rules so that we can communicate on an adult level, discussing even controversial topics.

I've banned you from this forum for 14 days.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Wow,

Which reminds me also...any crew that wants to enter the "get your crew in a BASE video" contest should start thinking about getting me their footage.

late,
jimmy

edit for thread title ~TA



Hey Jimmy,

Exactly a year ago + a few days I gave U some footage when I saw you in Lysebotn. You said if you used it you would give me credit for it...saw my footage in Radix....didn't see a video credit. WTF?
Not a huge deal but I like people to follow through with what they say.............
PEace out
SabreDave

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Personal take, which I'm sure will fall on deaf ears, but in any event....

If you want to take irresponsibility to the next level and frap yourself in, hey man, have at it, it's your life.

When your irresponsibility carries over into endangering the lives of others who know no better, you've crossed the line. What makes this particularly egregious (and heartless) is that you don't give a shit that it does.

So you can say that you're doing these things for her and that you care about her. But your actions belie the truth. And the truth is, you aren't and you don't.

As with everything else you're doing these things for you and you only...

"IIIIIII don't care about anyone else but me. IIIIIII don't care about anyone."

Prizes to anyone who names the BASE film that those lyrics came from. :P

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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Zennie,
I never said I was doing this because I cared about her. I was making a reference to other people who say they care about someone and then control what they do.

I'm not hanging out with underaged girls, I'm teaching a 16 yr. old how to BASE jump. I'm going to ask her parents to read this thread, so they can become more informed on what other BASE jumpers feel about the risks she is taking, so could everyone keep the pervert comments contained within PMs. I understand why you all might think that, but if you want non jumpers to take you seriously, talking about statutory rape and other things like that seem a little off. Just asking to keep this BASE related.

Sabre Dave,
Is that your shot of the quad gainer going off #6 from the side? That's the only Norway shot that I can think that went uncredited. Sorry about that. I should have written down your name before I left. It was an unfortunate oversight. Do you plan on sending me footage for the Keen 'N Able "get your crew in a BASE video contest"?

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"Everyone can feel free to post their thoughts, but don't think you're going to say anything I haven't already thought of. So it's not going to make a difference what you say to me."

There are plenty of dead rappers that said that same thing. Guess they didn't learn.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

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When Chris Muller was 15, he took off in his hang glider from the Golden launch with his Dad Willi for his first cross country flight.

It was a pretty big, turbulent day, and somewhere down the range to the SW, Willi and Chris got separated and Willi ended up landing (and having to expain to his wife how he had lost their son).

They got a phone call from the hospital in Invermere. Chris had landed in the field out front after flying over 100km from Golden.

Chris grew up to be one of the best in the world at piloting nylon & mylar craft of all types.

There are analogies in other pursuits...

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Cool and wise words Mr. Nick. I'm glad you joined and reminded everyone of the history we perpetually repeat! I had around 40 skydives when I started BASE, from cliffs. That's where I met Ritchie. And I too think it was foolish.
take care,
Chris
Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

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[...] endangering the lives of others who know no better [...]



I'm big on owning my decisions, both the good and the bad. It's a pet peeve for me, then, when I feel that people are taking that ownership away from others. It's an even bigger pet peeve when it's done in the guise of being charitable or looking out for the little guy. Without defending this particular case (about which I know very little), then...

Sometimes people (particularly the very young, though I'd hardly call 16 "very young") have decisions made for them. Do you believe that's the case here?

There was a time when you knew less than you know now about the risks of BASE jumping. Certainly, when you got into the sport, you knew less than you know now. Even then, you probably had a hunch that there were some excellent reasons not to throw yourself off of very large objects. Do you have reason to believe that this person doesn't have the benefit of that basic intuition?

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I understand why you all might think that, but if you want non jumpers to take you seriously, talking about statutory rape and other things like that seem a little off. Just asking to keep this BASE related



I never mentioned that at all. Somebody else did.

For me it strictly is a BASE issue.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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Tree, calling someone a "demented pervert" is a personal attack, regardless of your opinion of them.



Actually, Tree didn't call Jimmy a "demented pervert." He said the 31-year old guy he knew who hung around with 15-year olds was a demented pervert.



As for the rest of this...

You've said, Jimmy, that you're going to have her parents read this thread.

That's good, because if anything does happen to her, it won't just be you going to jail. They'll be going right along with you. For many reasons, not all good, there are a lot of laws on the books to protect minors from bad judgment on the part of those charged with their protection. And while both you and they don't feel that allowing her to jump with little to no preparation is endangering the welfare of a minor, my guess is that the local child protective agency will look at it differently if it comes to their attention in the worst possible way.

That being said, children--and she is a child still--are more deft at learning certain skills than adults, so she will probably do well. But all it takes is a little bad luck to offset whatever natural ability she might have, and all of you are toast.

For her sake, and hers alone, I wish you the best of it.

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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Sometimes people (particularly the very young, though I'd hardly call 16 "very young") have decisions made for them. Do you believe that's the case here?



No, what I believe to be the case is that a non-skydiver (throw out the age for a minute, I'm willing to drop it because that's secondary to the main issue) is not capable, by virtue of their lack of skydiving experience, of making an informed decision about the very real dangers of BASE.

They also do not have the requisite freefall and canopy control experience to correctly respond to a sub-nominal situation.

I've always felt, that with a couple of exceptions (i.e. a round off a bridge into water), putting off an inexperienced skydiver, let alone a non-skydiver, is irresponsbile, reckless and disrespectful to the person who has absolutely no clue what they're getting themselves into.

If she wants to BASE jump and Jimmy wants to teach her, I honestly have no problem with that. But CHRIST give her the tools to protect herself before just hucking her off something merely because she wants to.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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The only thing I can possibly contribute is saying this... Jimmy I like your videos and think you're funny and an extremely competent jumper in all aspects.

Saying this however, I think you should reconsider this girl's age. I am a female, and a closer to 16 than 35. I remember this age well, and after making some base jumps here and there, I have come to grips with the risk I am putting myself in. At 16, I would not understand this AT ALL.

Why is she base jumping? To be cool in school? I have come to find base is very personal. Its for a reason of fulfillment. At 16, there's SO much in life yet to explore. Prom, high school teams, college, boys, driving, etc.

I have noticed that base is for publicity to you. I think the base community is having a cow right now because you're passing along this attitude to someone who doesn't know any better. She doesn't have the maturity to balance risk and reason yet. Everyone knows there's a big difference b/w 16 and 18, and 18 and 21, etc. But this just strikes me because that wasn't TOO far back for me to remember ;)

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

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Some good stuff here. You all might not realize it but I do listen. And I believe in the power of discussion.

So here's the deal. I think many already know my position on this and many will disagree but I do not believe skydiving to be a prerequisite to learning subterminal BASE jumping. Canopy skills can be learned at the right locations through BASE jumping. Landings in the early days of skydiving can be just as sketchy as when BASE jumping. I've been willing to teach people to BASE jump without skydiving experience for some time and many of those I've taught recently had less than 50 jumps. At the right locations (always please keep that mind) the sport is no more dangerous than any of the other "extreme sports." Many of which minors participate in. I always explain the risk to my students and go through each possible scenario. Then it's on.


There is a progression and skydiving does at some point become necessary. Mainly for terminal jumps because tracking has to be learned first.

BTW, when Clair did her first jump, her friend Cris jumped as well. I'm not sure how old he is, but he doesn't have any skydives either. He did make some rope jumps with Dan Osmond back in the day.
He stuck it too. They both stood up their landings, and I see no reason not to proceed.

I learned to skydive when I was 16 and almost went in on my 17th jump. And when I say I almost went in, I mean it. Yet that in no way made me want to stop, and had I gone in, I hope my parents wouldn't have gone to jail. My age had nothing to do with it. What's the difference with this?

BASE jumping is a sport that is just now emerging as a legitimate athletic pursuit and I don't believe it neccessarily needs skydiving to hold its hand.

And Brit you're right, I do like publicity.

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I learned to skydive when I was 16 and almost went in on my 17th jump. And when I say I almost went in, I mean it. Yet that in no way made me want to stop, and had I gone in, I hope my parents wouldn't have gone to jail. My age had nothing to do with it. What's the difference with this?



Oddly enough, there's a thread in General Skydiving Discussions right now about minors making a skydive.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1792831#1792831

Parents have gone to jail for some pretty weird things, Jimmy. Sometimes it turns on nothing more than where the powers-that-be see their interests lie.

You need to realize that what Clair's parents have done (by allowing this) is probably sufficient reason for child protective services to remove her from their custody right now. The only thing between Clair and a foster home or group home or worse is that they probably won't find out what's going on unless something goes wrong. If I were you, though, I'd be very wary of publicity.

rl
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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BASE jumping is a sport that is just now emerging as a legitimate athletic pursuit and I don't believe it neccessarily needs skydiving to hold its hand.



I would tend to agree with you on both of these statements Jimmy. We all know plenty of people who have learned to BASE jump without skydive experience. Some people learn quicker than others, and there ARE other sports other than skydiving that can help prepare your mindset for BASE. Throwing human dog food off the bridge is a bit much, but it doesn't sound like the folks in question fall into this category.

That being said, my concern with this is not necessarily with the 16 year old's safety--that is her own resposibility whether she fully understands it or not. My concern is for the rest of us. As much as BASE is growing in popularity, it is still as marginalized as ever and becoming more restricted each day.

It would be a HUGE blow to lose legal access to TF or Moab. GIGANTIC.

The more people die/get injured BASE jumping, the more ammo 'the man' has against us to make laws, remove access, etc. My position is Why take that chance? No harm will come from a new jumper putting in some time out of an aircraft first.

hope it gets worked out.
pope

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I knew a guy who at 31 was into 15 year olds. You know what he was? A fucking demented pervert who liked underage girls.



Tom, that was no personal attack, the demented is the guy Mark knew ;) You might want to reconsider your decision, just my 0.02.

My wife and I are just LOL about this whole thing.

On one corner we have Jimmy pretty much stating that if a 16 year old can ski, snowboard, rock climb, drive, and ride a motorcycle then they can sure BASE.

On the other corner there are people stating that "maturity" and a shit loaded of skydives are needed to start BASE.

The truth is people died and got fucked up doing this thing off the hook and by the "BASE book".
Memento Audere Semper

903

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Wow,
I've waiting for good reason to post about this...

Must have been about a week ago that I took this girl, Clair, on her first BASE jump.

No tandems, no skydives, only 16 yrs. old.

And since jt wouldn't let me take her at his bridge, we had to do it at a freestanding power tower.

Should have seen her. She totaly stuck it and even stood up her landing. The best part is, I didn't even have to tell her anything. I just showed her the section in RADIX where Shane is briefing his deathcamp student.

BTW Keen 'N Able should be ready to ship late November.

Which reminds me also...any crew that wants to enter the "get your crew in a BASE video" contest should start thinking about getting me their footage.

Fox 245 with Vtec and multi-bridle up for grabs. (75 jumps on it).

late,
jimmy

edit for thread title ~TA



Yeah but if you put her off the bridge, would you let her jump from the rail?
Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

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Drowning pool...

Nice Jimmy, I'm banging a 20 year old here, and I'm 31. It's worth it.

I am disappointed at how few people are getting really upset about the virtual world. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE keep the fire going.

Tom, you don't like Jimmy or something?

Jimmy, if you were friends with the skydive crew here at this dz, I might have to buy you a beer in Norcal and have you explain to me why.

Let's keep the hate alive and strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

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