The Alliance of Backcountry Parachutists

[TomAiello 25]

Let's try this discussion again:

Overall Question:
Is the ABP the most effectual entity to support in pursuing the goal of access to public lands?


Issue: The ABP has reorganized and declared itself a top-down organization, in which the dictates of the leadership will determine policy without reference to the membership.

How will this effect efforts for access?
Will the ABP be more effective as a smaller group that rejects volunteers?
Will ABP fundraising be reduced as a result of the organizations policy of non-responsiveness to member input?
Will people give money to the organization knowing that they will never be allowed input into how that money is used?
How effective will efforts for access be without group funding?


Issue: The ABP seems unable to overcome the personality issues of it's founder.

Will this eventually scare off every person who has put time and energy into the organization?


Issue: The ABP has offered to refund money to those who donated.

Will people actually try to get their money back?
If they do, will it actually be returned?
Could this potentially return the organization to operating out of the personal funds of the leadership (bearing in mind that many operating costs were born by a member who has been ejected)?


Issue: Is there any alternative to the ABP?

Can some kind of group protest activity evolve into a greater movement?
Will Abbie actually become the savior of BASE on public lands ()?
If another organization were formed with similar goals but a different structure, would it be more effective?
Would an alternate organization split the energy of the BASE community, or improve efforts for access?
Is there really any problem with splitting things, since the ABP has stated that it does not wish to represent or respond to the BASE community?
Are people just too tired of all this to get involved in a different organization?


Thoughts, anyone?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[edge01 1]

Can it still be called an alliance?

[Zennie 0]

Random thoughts/responses, worth approximately .21 Pesos...

Personally, at this stage of the game, I think the ABP is a lame duck. The recent action has left a sour tase in many, if not most people's mouths. I think membership will ultimately suffer as a result.

I personally don't plan on offering my support to the ABP. For me it's not so much about the personalities involved (notwithstanding my previous comments) as it is about organizational actions and credibility. I just dont' like the way it is currently being run.

Actually, if the fired Board members were to reconvene and form their own organization, I WOULD lend my support to them. For starters, their contributions to the sport (both in terms of technology and advocacy) are far too numerous to list. All of those members have the goodwill of the vast majority of jumpers in the sport and I believe that they all honestly care about the best interests of the sport as a whole. I also think past history has shown them to be articulate and effective spokepersons and lobbyists.

Finance-wise, yes, I think group funding is absolutely essential to have any sort of real impact. As far as the ABP's (re)funding goes, I have no idea how their finances stand so I really can't comment on that.

As far as protests go, protests are a tool, not the end-all, to accomplish a desired objective. I think a protest done correctly and peacefully can have a very positive effect. But associated with that (and more important) must also be active lobbying of politicians who have the power to bring about real change.

All said, I can't offer my support to the ABP, but I sincerely hope that the fired board members reconvene and create their own organization.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[wwarped 0]

Quote

Overall Question:
Is the ABP the most effectual entity to support in pursuing the goal of access to public lands?

survey our sport's history...
how many groups have come and gone?
what was accomplished?

the most successful groups tend to be quite focused and tend to concentrate on a single site. BD, SBK, and the folks up in Idaho all do good jobs protecting their local, legal turf.

(surely Jason spends enormous amounts of time for a 6 hour window, at a single object.)

the best large scale leadership tends to flow from smaller scale projects. we need more of a grass-roots effort of people becoming politically aware and vigilant. from that, proper national leadership can emerge.

face it, USPA relies on dz's as a first alert system. it can't monitor every piece of legislation in every state on it's own.

we need to stop looking for a silver bullet, single method approach. people from across the US must try what seems right in their backyards. I'm sure we'll quickly learn of successes.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[dploi 0]

Good call, Nick:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1668803#1668803

[RhondaLea 3]

I read your post, Tom, and all I could think was, "My god, carpal tunnel here I come."

Fortunately, Ted has saved me, by saying almost exactly what I think, probably in far fewer words.

The only thing I'd like to add is that it seems to me if a board member expended his own funds on behalf of the organization, he should probably be reimbursed by the organization for the funds he expended.

Just a thought.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[damien 0]

A representative organization should be built with the following characteristics:
- board elected for a year (or less or more) by members
- no profit
- funding and fund management transparent to members
- if employees are needed, they shouldn't be part of the board or have any power of decision
- all intellectual properties (names, web sites, logos, image, etc) should belong to the organization and not to physical persons

These characteristics would guarantee the integrity of such an organization. Democratic election does NOT mean no decisions can be made. The board has the power, for a limited time. If members are not happy about it, the board would not be reelected. The ex-board of the ABP, could naturally become the board of such an organization.

Should it represent only backcountry parachutists? For sure, the biggest fight in the US today is with NPS, but wouldn't it be better if this organization was be representing all base jumpers? How many of you are pure backcountry parachutists and not base jumpers?

By the way, I would be glad to get my money back from the ABP and give it to an organization that would really represent backcountry parachutists/base jumpers and has an real ethics based on the general interest.

Just my thought...

[cornishe 0]

Quote

Will Abbie actually become the savior of BASE on public lands ()?

Now that's scary!

I'm just a guy who put up a website (that's crapped out and I'm working on it). Whatever movement I'm part of, I'm not leading. I look at it more like how a flock of birds fly together... mostly disorganized, with a common goal.


.

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[Skinflicka 0]

Quote

I look at it more like how a flock of birds fly together... mostly disorganized, with a common goal.
.

...which is generally to increase their chances of not getting eaten by a predator. Bottom line...no direction and hoping it's their brother who gets fucked rather than them.

Yep...sounds like BASE jumpers alright.

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[badenhop 0]

Quote

Quote

I look at it more like how a flock of birds fly together... mostly disorganized, with a common goal.

...which is generally to increase their chances of not getting eaten by a predator. Bottom line...no direction and hoping it's their brother who gets fucked rather than them.

Yep...sounds like BASE jumpers alright.

Hello,
I had planned on staying out of this,
but must enter, if just to say, touche Mr. $kin.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[RhondaLea 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I look at it more like how a flock of birds fly together... mostly disorganized, with a common goal.

...which is generally to increase their chances of not getting eaten by a predator. Bottom line...no direction and hoping it's their brother who gets fucked rather than them.

Yep...sounds like BASE jumpers alright.

Hello,
I had planned on staying out of this,
but must enter, if just to say, touche Mr. $kin.

I must be prescient, eh, $kin?

It's a sad fucking commentary when one of the rare few people to whom your analogy does not apply is the first to acknowledge its relevance.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Skinflicka 0]

True dat!

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[460 0]

Things can get very interesting in a good way. This "access" nut can be cracked. Like anything that results in success, find the weakest point in the system and exploit, exploit, exploit... I have solutions roaming my mind. This problem is solvable and when we describe the history to new jumpers when we're elderly, we'll sound like this "back in my day when it was snowing and we had to walk uphill both ways, we had to do illegal jumps at night or not at all, and gosh darn it, we liked it!"

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[Skinflicka 0]

Then share, brother, lest this thread turn into another shitpile.

Let's talk about alternatives...

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[unclecharlie95 3]

Quote

A representative organization should be built with the following characteristics:
- board elected for a year (or less or more) by members
- no profit
- funding and fund management transparent to members

*humor mode on*

and should be called The Backcountry Parachutists Alliance

Joke shamelessly stolen from The Life of Brian:
The Peoples front of Judiah, who hate the Judian peoples front.

and has the acronym BPA to boot

*humor mode off*

Serious discussion can now continue...

BASEstore.it

[avenfoto 0]

jehova, jehova, jehova ....

(i think sean connery once told me jehova starts w/ an i..)