base689 0 #26 July 14, 2005 > I'm a bit tired and might be getting this wrong but are we talking about the same terminal wall in italy ? Well said indeed. Italian terminal wall can be "easy", provided you go and jump there with the following conditons: 1) under proper meteo/wind conditions (=jump with a local) 2) don't do "stupid" things (no offence to the fallen, "stupid" here means "something you are not trained/not prepared/not fit to do (yet)) 3) be prepared to do a good 45° exit in an "empty" environment (when on "designated" exit point, you have no close reference, only very far mountains on the skyline overthere) 4) properly consider that the close landing area is jolly frightening indeed (you know rocks/boulders/pleasant stuff all over the place/nearby the place.....?) and the (far) designated landing area has got not other "alternate landing area" in between (if you don't consider few square meters of gap between the forest trees here and there) 5) consider again that even if you are a foreigner and you end up with the "Oh, yes, I travelled so many km's that a small wind is NOT going to stop me" attitude, Italian terminal wall can bite your àss very, very badly Few notes: don't think that you go to a terminal wall and you do your best track at the very first jump, the scene is quite intimidating and only about only 50% of first time jumpers there succeeded in doing a hell of a track, the remaining 50% either did just a decent track or just a box. Even if there is "light" wind but if you go jolly low on opening, if you don't make it to the designated landing area, and you discover it mid way, they become bitter c o c k s, as we say in our country, few jumpers has left few bones breakage there (myself included, even if very, very minor).Stay safe out there Blue Skies and Soft Walls BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #27 July 14, 2005 I've edited the name of the Italian terminal wall in a couple of posts in this thread.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #28 July 14, 2005 I did my first terminal jump at Norway, I had around 30 BASE jumps and had jumped solid objects before (300ft range), my first terminal cliff jump terrified me. I had not skydived for over a year and I was worried about tracking, The only thing I would say is that my inexperience led me to not really make decent tracking movement until about 8 seconds, which was ok"ish" on the Norway wall, but lower walls with a need to track would have been a little more intense for me......... Terminal wall jumping is a different beast, just approach it with the same respect as it deserves........ go do some skydives to practice tracking to make sure you are happy about your position, it will make you feel (a little) better on the edge............ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base689 0 #29 July 14, 2005 > I am intrested also as to which the masses suggest as a first big wall jump Several terminal walls CAN be suitable for a first terminal jump. NO TERMINAL WALL is easy for a first terminal jump. Do you get the point? A terminal wall is on a big mountain, there are a lot of rocks underneath, sometimes the landing is close (to vertical of exit), sometimes not, there can be pieces of rock/pillars/towers "popping out" in freefall if you do not know where you are going, there can be winds that (if you jump on your own) can be fatal to you. Shall I have to continue? Together with experienced (of the site) jumpers, a first terminal jumper can find himself/herslef at his/her own ease jumping there, but the right meteo conditions can be evaluated suitable for a first jump off there only by the experienced. We had quite a number of close calls here at our terminal wall because jumpers (even experienced ones) jumped in the wrong conditions, so, Italian terminal wall can be easy, Italian terminal wall can be terrible, depends on how you approach it.Stay safe out there Blue Skies and Soft Walls BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base736 0 #30 July 14, 2005 Quote(5) consider again that even if you are a foreigner and you end up with the "Oh, yes, I travelled so many km's that a small wind is NOT going to stop me" attitude, Italian terminal wall can bite your àss very, very badly. I have personally tested Jaap on this one. The guy's got mad skillz when it comes to not jumping. ... But he still squeals like a little girl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #31 July 14, 2005 To be honest with everyone, I am scared about jumping the IT terminal wall! Why? although I can exit and jump low objects, jumping something like the MB wall is a different beast...... I have recently heard about some people going there and thinking it was safe to try out their first gainers.................... apparently it could have turned VERY ugly.................. big walls dont mean big safety............... dont think like a skydiver.................. height means bollocks all in BASE................... 200ft or 2000ft, its still as fucking dangerous! i will get my coat................ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #32 July 14, 2005 QuoteThe guy's got mad skillz when it comes to not jumping. And I might be back soon for some more not-jumping when the RB guys visit. Are those bears gone yet? QuoteBut he still squeals like a little girl. Hey! That water was cold, ok? Tsssssk, the things I do for your camera entertainment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #33 July 14, 2005 Jaap, you are afraid of smokey the bear? oh geeze... We have a softey in the house... Cleanup on on isle 5Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites huckfinn 0 #34 July 14, 2005 ***LB is ok to do your first jumps (did my very first jumps there), but I stronly suggest to do slider-down jumps first (there are some exits suitable for this). This is to train your eyes (often this point doesn't get trained enough) and to get used to the landing. I don't agree. In LB you HAVE to subterminal track, that is the critical skill. I've seen a lot of beginners there and it just scares me... odds are if you don't get hurt it will be luck. And skydiving tracking just isn't the same as a subterminal track. Don't you have any big A to practice off? Ginny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #35 July 14, 2005 ITTW is just fine for jumper you asked. As long there is some experience jumper along w the student is fine. There is no wall or terminal jump site which can give you 100% safety. Therefore don't make the ''drama'' out of the ITTW place or any other slider up terminal jump. Yes , people were died there, and also died on other terminal jump places, but we know why, so all we need to do, is to be mature, keep in mind and teach the students to follow the common sense and rules set for ITTW or any othe place we jumping off. Each place has some difficulties we need to deal with so... be mature and do it!!!Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites toni 0 #36 July 15, 2005 You go to N#1, !slider-down! (this exit got forgotten, a lot of newer ones don't know it), 1s delay, you will have about 60m (feet??) behind your back. If this is not enough to turn around the canopy, you're probably at the wrong place... At SB, you event have some meters more, but since jumping there isn't good idea. At YO, the overhang is to the bottom of the face. (!!Remember, this doesn't apply to the ramp. My recommendation there is: don't do the ramp!!) If you slide back in a box position, you're at the wrong place again... I don't give more details here, PM if you need. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pgpilot 0 #37 July 15, 2005 [... be mature and do it!!! ] That is sage advice from one of the wisest voices in the sport. Seriously people, ease off on the drama. Every site is potentially dangerous. Most sites can be jumped responsibly. Go with someone who knows the site and who you know you can trust, and that's that. I know several jumpers who have made their first Terminal jumps on the sites mentioned above (YO and ITW) and I know people who have made their first BASE jumps ever at those sites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rpersi 0 #38 July 15, 2005 I did my first terminal BASE at the Italian wall and it was a little intimidating to be honest. A local (who had 150 jumps just at this site) took me to the top and said take a 7-8 second delay since this was my first big wall experience. Opening in that range should put you 35-40 meters away from the wall on opening. The second after realizing I had a good canopy over my head, I looked behind me and he was right. Just be aware of the winds and it helps to have communication on the ground. Nobody at the restaurant spoke English when I was there last year but that may be different now. Learning a little Italian could not hurt, especially when ordering that magnificent food. Have fun and be safe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #39 July 15, 2005 I've noticed something in reading all the above. It's obvious that a dynamic has changed in this sport. With things like wind and protrusions notwithstanding, there is much more concern about terminal BASE jumps then there used to be. It's actually a good thing and it shows we are growing our own. But it underscores the fact new BASE jumpers don't necessarily come from the ranks of seriously experienced skydivers anymore. (This isn't something I just realized, but this thread really brings it home). The heyday of my BASE career was all about how to launch from ever lower altitudes and to us anything terminal was a picnic. But, like I said this is a good thing. In fact if there never was a sport called skydiving, and we were all homegrown earth jumpers, we'd probably be further advanced than we are now . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites huckfinn 0 #40 July 15, 2005 [Go with someone who knows the site and who you know you can trust, and that's that. ] Definitely not sage advice there... As a rare poster on these forums, I must chime in here. Everyone has their own opinions and experiences, and all of us know people who "have done" many things, and that does not make it correct or smart. This post is in response to the original question about LB for beginners, I'll leave the ITTW to others more experienced there. There have been some good posts about the potential dangers of this jewel. These forums are read by many non basers and aspiring basers, to imply that LB is a fine place to learn is doing a great disservice to the CH community, as well as all those that enjoy the legal jumps in the valley. Do you need hundreds of jumps to be safe there? No. What you do need is some solid base training and the confidence that you can perform a sub-terminal track with the correct delay for the exit point. Sure you can start with some slider down, but this will do little to prepare you for the next one with a slider, except to show you what it looks like over the edge and maybe calm the jitters a bit. This is not just advice to keep the area open, it's going to help you avoid the helicopter rides and possibly a guest appearance on Nick's list. I certainly hope this is not too much "drama" for you. People getting into the sport of base jumping don't need to be stroked and told everything will be fine. They should fully understand all the potential dangers involved and feel confident that they are personally ready to accept these risks, regardless how much experience the guy/gal standing next to them has. Is trusting a mentor like clicking ruby slippers together? Robi was right, be mature. There's much to this maturity thing. Hey Jaap, you asked for opinions, short answer, don't start in CH. Have a great trip. Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #41 July 16, 2005 This is great stuff...All us nubees or low experience jumpers should take to heart....well....to brain actually.... You are right, but you can learn allot more doing tracking dives from a plane than for a few seconds off a object. I would bet the 500 or so tracking dives could save your ass when needed... Thanks for the "good information".. Stay safe all, chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #42 July 18, 2005 Would clothing ie. tracking pants jackets make a difference on your first terminal jumps. Say for instance you are wearing a baggy jacket and maybe tight or short pants. would this make worse a head high...ie back into the wall by fighting your wind resistant top layer? That would go also for baggy tracking pants that could induce head down as you are fighting leg wind resistance. I would think that this would make a difference. would love to here some prospectives on this for first time terminal jumps... Thanks, chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #43 July 18, 2005 I am of the opinion that a non-restrictive tracking suit (like the Phoenix Fly tracking suit) would be a great option for anyone's first terminal jumps. Being sure that you do some skydives on it first to understand how the track feels different, I don't really see a downside on launch or opening, and I see some major positives in terms of getting away from the object, especially if you take some time getting into a good track, or if your track isn't quite perfect (both reasonable possibilities since you'll be somewhat taken with other things on your first terminal jump).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #44 July 18, 2005 agreed...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 0
BASE813 0 #31 July 14, 2005 To be honest with everyone, I am scared about jumping the IT terminal wall! Why? although I can exit and jump low objects, jumping something like the MB wall is a different beast...... I have recently heard about some people going there and thinking it was safe to try out their first gainers.................... apparently it could have turned VERY ugly.................. big walls dont mean big safety............... dont think like a skydiver.................. height means bollocks all in BASE................... 200ft or 2000ft, its still as fucking dangerous! i will get my coat................ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #32 July 14, 2005 QuoteThe guy's got mad skillz when it comes to not jumping. And I might be back soon for some more not-jumping when the RB guys visit. Are those bears gone yet? QuoteBut he still squeals like a little girl. Hey! That water was cold, ok? Tsssssk, the things I do for your camera entertainment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #33 July 14, 2005 Jaap, you are afraid of smokey the bear? oh geeze... We have a softey in the house... Cleanup on on isle 5Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huckfinn 0 #34 July 14, 2005 ***LB is ok to do your first jumps (did my very first jumps there), but I stronly suggest to do slider-down jumps first (there are some exits suitable for this). This is to train your eyes (often this point doesn't get trained enough) and to get used to the landing. I don't agree. In LB you HAVE to subterminal track, that is the critical skill. I've seen a lot of beginners there and it just scares me... odds are if you don't get hurt it will be luck. And skydiving tracking just isn't the same as a subterminal track. Don't you have any big A to practice off? Ginny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #35 July 14, 2005 ITTW is just fine for jumper you asked. As long there is some experience jumper along w the student is fine. There is no wall or terminal jump site which can give you 100% safety. Therefore don't make the ''drama'' out of the ITTW place or any other slider up terminal jump. Yes , people were died there, and also died on other terminal jump places, but we know why, so all we need to do, is to be mature, keep in mind and teach the students to follow the common sense and rules set for ITTW or any othe place we jumping off. Each place has some difficulties we need to deal with so... be mature and do it!!!Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toni 0 #36 July 15, 2005 You go to N#1, !slider-down! (this exit got forgotten, a lot of newer ones don't know it), 1s delay, you will have about 60m (feet??) behind your back. If this is not enough to turn around the canopy, you're probably at the wrong place... At SB, you event have some meters more, but since jumping there isn't good idea. At YO, the overhang is to the bottom of the face. (!!Remember, this doesn't apply to the ramp. My recommendation there is: don't do the ramp!!) If you slide back in a box position, you're at the wrong place again... I don't give more details here, PM if you need. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pgpilot 0 #37 July 15, 2005 [... be mature and do it!!! ] That is sage advice from one of the wisest voices in the sport. Seriously people, ease off on the drama. Every site is potentially dangerous. Most sites can be jumped responsibly. Go with someone who knows the site and who you know you can trust, and that's that. I know several jumpers who have made their first Terminal jumps on the sites mentioned above (YO and ITW) and I know people who have made their first BASE jumps ever at those sites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpersi 0 #38 July 15, 2005 I did my first terminal BASE at the Italian wall and it was a little intimidating to be honest. A local (who had 150 jumps just at this site) took me to the top and said take a 7-8 second delay since this was my first big wall experience. Opening in that range should put you 35-40 meters away from the wall on opening. The second after realizing I had a good canopy over my head, I looked behind me and he was right. Just be aware of the winds and it helps to have communication on the ground. Nobody at the restaurant spoke English when I was there last year but that may be different now. Learning a little Italian could not hurt, especially when ordering that magnificent food. Have fun and be safe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #39 July 15, 2005 I've noticed something in reading all the above. It's obvious that a dynamic has changed in this sport. With things like wind and protrusions notwithstanding, there is much more concern about terminal BASE jumps then there used to be. It's actually a good thing and it shows we are growing our own. But it underscores the fact new BASE jumpers don't necessarily come from the ranks of seriously experienced skydivers anymore. (This isn't something I just realized, but this thread really brings it home). The heyday of my BASE career was all about how to launch from ever lower altitudes and to us anything terminal was a picnic. But, like I said this is a good thing. In fact if there never was a sport called skydiving, and we were all homegrown earth jumpers, we'd probably be further advanced than we are now . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huckfinn 0 #40 July 15, 2005 [Go with someone who knows the site and who you know you can trust, and that's that. ] Definitely not sage advice there... As a rare poster on these forums, I must chime in here. Everyone has their own opinions and experiences, and all of us know people who "have done" many things, and that does not make it correct or smart. This post is in response to the original question about LB for beginners, I'll leave the ITTW to others more experienced there. There have been some good posts about the potential dangers of this jewel. These forums are read by many non basers and aspiring basers, to imply that LB is a fine place to learn is doing a great disservice to the CH community, as well as all those that enjoy the legal jumps in the valley. Do you need hundreds of jumps to be safe there? No. What you do need is some solid base training and the confidence that you can perform a sub-terminal track with the correct delay for the exit point. Sure you can start with some slider down, but this will do little to prepare you for the next one with a slider, except to show you what it looks like over the edge and maybe calm the jitters a bit. This is not just advice to keep the area open, it's going to help you avoid the helicopter rides and possibly a guest appearance on Nick's list. I certainly hope this is not too much "drama" for you. People getting into the sport of base jumping don't need to be stroked and told everything will be fine. They should fully understand all the potential dangers involved and feel confident that they are personally ready to accept these risks, regardless how much experience the guy/gal standing next to them has. Is trusting a mentor like clicking ruby slippers together? Robi was right, be mature. There's much to this maturity thing. Hey Jaap, you asked for opinions, short answer, don't start in CH. Have a great trip. Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #41 July 16, 2005 This is great stuff...All us nubees or low experience jumpers should take to heart....well....to brain actually.... You are right, but you can learn allot more doing tracking dives from a plane than for a few seconds off a object. I would bet the 500 or so tracking dives could save your ass when needed... Thanks for the "good information".. Stay safe all, chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #42 July 18, 2005 Would clothing ie. tracking pants jackets make a difference on your first terminal jumps. Say for instance you are wearing a baggy jacket and maybe tight or short pants. would this make worse a head high...ie back into the wall by fighting your wind resistant top layer? That would go also for baggy tracking pants that could induce head down as you are fighting leg wind resistance. I would think that this would make a difference. would love to here some prospectives on this for first time terminal jumps... Thanks, chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #43 July 18, 2005 I am of the opinion that a non-restrictive tracking suit (like the Phoenix Fly tracking suit) would be a great option for anyone's first terminal jumps. Being sure that you do some skydives on it first to understand how the track feels different, I don't really see a downside on launch or opening, and I see some major positives in terms of getting away from the object, especially if you take some time getting into a good track, or if your track isn't quite perfect (both reasonable possibilities since you'll be somewhat taken with other things on your first terminal jump).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #44 July 18, 2005 agreed...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
