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cornishe

Protest Jump in NPS

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Thanks Kevin. I may be in over my head trying to organize something big like this. I was hoping a few with more experience would step up. When we get 100 yes votes, lets PM about logistics.


.
Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

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Go here. It's very easy



as long as you live in the US - it didn't like my UK pastcode! What about the rest of us? I don't have a congressman or senator but those of the states with the toys in and the NPS can be written to by us.



There's actually work being done on getting the system to allow foreign letter writers. Just after that on the schedule is getting it to send letters to non-U.S. officials (think about the Mexican hole, for example). But you have to remember that the whole thing is put together by a bunch of people with real lives, real jobs, and limited time. I'll make sure that this gets noted (again), but I can't promise any kind of timeline for you.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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For a first time offense, what is the maximum sentence? I assume its a federal misdemeanor with 6 months max in jail, a few thousand dollar fine, and confiscation of gear.

What about the conspiracy charge? How does that work???
Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

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I would be very worried about the charges laid upon the main organizers and instigator of such an event. Most likely, they would face heftier penalties.

Also, read: http://www.vertical-visions.com/nps.php

Finally, don't underestimate the lazyness of the base jumping community. It's one thing to write on the boards, it's a whole other thing to actually travel hundreds of miles to show up at a protest that could result in getting arrested.

Didn't the Flatbed 10 try to drive a truck up there because they didn't want to hike that much? I'm going to get flamed for this, but we still have too much skydiving blood among us, and too little climbing blood.

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Conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor can be a felony.

If I recall correctly the judge has wide latitude in determining the fine amount, and could jack it up if he thought poorly of the offender.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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I'm wondering why you are choosing this track of thoughts.

Take a look at special use permits. Like this one. http://www.nps.gov/yose/trip/sup.pdf

Check out Page 3. See that "exercise of First Amendment" part? Do a permit and check "Yes." Are you familiar with the area? "Yes." Do you plan on a press release? "Yes." Will you distribute material? "Yes." Do it! Is there any reason to believe there will be a counter protest? Put "No." Only NPS staff will protest it.

You should FIRST try to get a special use permit. That means taking the time to fill it out. Since this is a protest, the NPS has less of a right to ban it. They may suggest a time and date for this to happen. They can regulate this. If they don't allow you to jump, or issue you the permit, then I would recommend seekign other ways.

You HAVE to show the NPS that you are trying to do this the right way. Saying, "Fuck you" to bureaucrats is rarely successful and blows up in the face most of the time.

LAY A DAMNED RECORD that you are trying to do this the right way before you just mount a protest jump without notice to the NPS.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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You HAVE to show the NPS that you are trying to do this the right way. Saying, "Fuck you" to bureaucrats is rarely successful and blows up in the face most of the time.



This was sort of my thinking as well.

I personally think something like this could backfire in a huge way for at least a couple of reasons.

First, folks such as Jason have been making inroads with the NPS to secure LEGAL jumping within our parks. Second, as "new blood" enters the NPS, there has been less of a perception of us being a pack of outlaws as is the case with the old guard. Third, if this thing is on the scale of a 100-way, I'd say the odds of SOMETHING going wrong are fairly high.

Bottom line, I personally think if folks try this our door to the NPS will be slammed shut and double-deadbolted if not permanently, definitely for the rest of our lifetime. And any new NPS rangers that had been sympathetic to our cause will pretty much turn their backs on us and think that the old timers were right all along.

I'm not saying give up the fight, all I'm saying is fight smart.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor.

I don't know the max on Aerial Delivery.

What attorneys have been used for this sort of thing in the past? I'd like to pay for a few hours of consulting time with him/her/them.


.
Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

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You should FIRST try to get a special use permit.



Anyone out there know the actual number of "special use" permits that have been issued to BASE jumpers in the past...I read that NPS guidelines are so tight that they had to grant themselves a 10 year waiver just so Bridge Day could happen.

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I'm wondering why you are choosing this track of thoughts.

Take a look at special use permits. Like this one. http://www.nps.gov/yose/trip/sup.pdf

Check out Page 3. See that "exercise of First Amendment" part? Do a permit and check "Yes." Are you familiar with the area? "Yes." Do you plan on a press release? "Yes." Will you distribute material? "Yes." Do it! Is there any reason to believe there will be a counter protest? Put "No." Only NPS staff will protest it.

You should FIRST try to get a special use permit. That means taking the time to fill it out. Since this is a protest, the NPS has less of a right to ban it. They may suggest a time and date for this to happen. They can regulate this. If they don't allow you to jump, or issue you the permit, then I would recommend seekign other ways.

You HAVE to show the NPS that you are trying to do this the right way. Saying, "Fuck you" to bureaucrats is rarely successful and blows up in the face most of the time.

LAY A DAMNED RECORD that you are trying to do this the right way before you just mount a protest jump without notice to the NPS.[/reply




O.K. then your hired

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I would be very worried about the charges laid upon the main organizers and instigator of such an event.



I don't believe there is an organizer for this event. I believe there was a "Wouldn't it be cool if..." conversation started and a bunch of people said "yeah it would" and "I'd like to participate in something like that" and the likes.

That what's unique about this idea as opposed to the JanD jump. No one is organizing anything. It's just a FREE SPEAKING group of people talking about something that may or may not ever happen.

While we could possibly be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, I don't think that would support the NPS's stand at all. It might even be the best press coverage we could ask for.

I think the best way to proceed is to have people show up. If people choose to jump, they choose to jump. If not it will still be a show of force regarding something that should not be deemed illegal which would be protected under "Freedom of Speech".

What would probably happen is the exit points would be blocked and the only way to jump would be to break more serious laws. At which point, most people will back down.

[SoapBox]
I feel many of our (US Citizens) rights are being violated, including the recent imminent domain ruling by the Supreme Court, many items in the Patriot Act and the way it is being enforced, and the right to use, in a way that is not detrimental to the public or the land, publicly owned land which I am paying to support.
[/SoapBox]

It would be really cool if we could secretly get a large group of people together to do a stealth jump, but secret, stealth, and large group are words that don't fit together easily.

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What attorneys have been used for this sort of thing in the past? I'd like to pay for a few hours of consulting time with him/her/them.



Rick Harrison would probably be the best one to talk to. He's a wealth of knowledgeon these issues.

His email is cliffleaper@aol.com

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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Anyone out there know the actual number of "special use" permits that have been issued to BASE jumpers in the past...



At least a couple of jumpers have applied and they are pretty much summarily denied.

That route has been continually taken and pretty much is a dead end.

I've worked in government, so I have a pretty good idea how things work. Basically, if you want to change the system you have to make the system want to change. And the best way to make the system want to change is if there is political pressure on it to do so.

How many times have you told someone to "fuck off" and then they actually decided to see things your way? That sort of thing tends to escalate matters, not alleviate them.

I personally think our best bet is to get some politicians (i.e. Congressmen & Senators) into our corner. They can either lay the heat on the NPS to change its regs or introduce legislation to specifically permit parachuting on NPS lands.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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This should be totally in-house as far as media coverage is concerned. Jimmy shoots it, and coordinates and directs whoever else is there with cameras. I can write the story, which may or may not get used, but the idea is we can somewhat control the message and the images.

All media request for art flows through Jimmy and all media requests for information can go through me. For individuals from out of town I can write a boilerplate piece that you can plug your names into and run in your own hometown newspapers.

After the fact the media is going to go the NPS and get their take, and there's nothing we can do about that, but if it goes like I know it can, their reasons for not letting us jump should sound pretty lame. We only need a few heavyweight media types to see it our way and it's off to the races.

Some slots we'll need to fill: (We can flush these out later, and some positions will need assistants).

GearMaster – A gear orientated person. This person will not jump, but spend their time spotting potential gear issues. This person will have absolute and irreversible authority on what gear gets jumped.

FlickMaster – This person will run the launch point. I first imagined this as a long continuous line of single launches that once started doesn't stop until the last jumper is away. However, multiple launches are something we need to talk about.

MeadowMaster- We absolutely cannot trample the meadow. This person will make sure jumpers, ground personal, families, and friends stay on the paths.

VolunteerMaster – This person will direct ground personal to the best advantage. These volunteers will shield camera people and run digital media and video tapes out of the area for safe keeping. We'll also need a few camera folks stashed in the trees for back up.

BustMaster – This person will be responsible for keeping a log of all people who are arrested and how it went down. I think participation in this will call for a no-flee decision on all our parts. Land, stand, and take it like a man . . . Of course, if they don't come after you there's no need to turn yourself in.

WebMaster – We need someone right now to set us up a password protected forum so we can carry this on in private. This person will screen everyone and not admit anyone that isn't vouched for by other known BASE jumpers.

SecurityMaster – Obviously this is no longer a secret, but the "when" must be kept classified to the last possible moment. The SecurityMaster will be responsible for coordinating jumpers and volunteers to that end and actually picking the date. This is going to be tricky and may entail some standby time where we are staged and ready to go. This person will need to be in the Park ahead of time and will make the final go-no-go call.

MedMaster – We had over 600 launches from the NRGB last year with one or two sprains and one broken toe. There's no reason we can't do as well here. But, we still need medical support on site in case Aunt Bessie keels over.

So that's a start. Operation "?" (we need a good name keeping in mind we want public support) may happen next week, next month, or next year, it may be El Cap or someplace else. In the meantime let it be known we are ready and willing to open a dialogue with the NPS to mutually resolve this whole issue. One simple signature on a piece of paper and the whole BASE problem goes away.

Let's bring it . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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I wrote a whole rambling reply to this BS. And then I read what Nick wrote...

One simple signature on a piece of paper and the whole BASE problem goes away.

BASE jumpers- Get off your asses and stop talking about stupid dz.com stuff for 30 minutes, write up a letter to your state and federal reps, Dept of the Interior, NPS Superintendant, Yosemite, etc.
---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

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BASE jumpers- Get off your asses and stop talking about stupid dz.com stuff for 30 minutes, write up a letter to your state and federal reps, Dept of the Interior, NPS Superintendant, Yosemite, etc.



I bet it takes less than five to just fill in the blanks on the ABP web page.

Honestly, though, I think this discussion is about some kind of direct action, rather than a letter writing campaign.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Peter,

I have previously done just that. The first letter was summarily dismissed. The second and third have not been responded to and it's been more time since writing them than it was to get a response on the first attempt.

The letters, at this point, are simple a nuisance for the elected officials. There is no requirement for them to respond and the maximum number of letters is probably trivial compared to other issues they face.

I do think we should not forget the politically correct way of dealing with this issue, but ultimately I think a major upheaval is all that will be heard. I think that upheaval can only be heard by way of numbers, impact, or cash.

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Back in February, I gave some advice on how to submit applications for a special use permit.

I'll put it this way - If 50 of you submit an application for a special use permit to jump El Cap, the NPS HAS to do somethign with it. If they deny an application, they have to state reasons for it.

Now, if there are 50 or 100 applications that they have to deal with, there is a consideration that some bureacrats may have to work weekends to deal with them all.

This is especially true if the applcations are well thought out and detailed. Simple letters saying, "I want to jump there. Tell me what to do" will not merit consideration.

I'm convinced that a starting point is using their rules to make their lives difficult.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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