NickDG 23 #1 July 2, 2005 I've seen more than my share of irresponsible journalism, but this takes the cake. I guess it never occurred to them we are better now at not getting caught. And does anyone see this as a challenge . . . NickD BASE 194 http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=111205 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicrussell 0 #2 July 2, 2005 I didnt know that square parachutes TEND to turn 180 on opening. I think Ill TEND to pack it backwards, then it will TEND to open the right direction. right? screw it, I'll just buy a round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #3 July 2, 2005 How do we contact this guy or his boss? Maybe one could tell his boss how much his research skills suck? Has anyone thought maybe the parks system might be behind this? Maybe they are feeding the reporters these untruths? OR maybe it is best that he obviously didnt do his research, obvious again by his own comments? freaking $^% irresponsible is the best you could say... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteThe Arizona Daily Sun welcomes letters to the editor. Letters should be addressed to the editor, Arizona Daily Sun, P.O. Box 1849, Flagstaff 86002. Our fax number is 774-4790. Our e-mail address is [email protected]. You may also use the form below to submit your letter. Letters that have been substantially edited will be so noted. Letters on appropriate topics will be printed as presented, although the Sun reserves the right to edit or refuse letters that are, in the opinion of the publisher, potentially libelous, in poor taste or too long. The limit on length is 250 words.....Questions on letters to the editor can be addressed to Editor Randy Wilson, 556-2254, during the Sun's weekday business hours. Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #4 July 4, 2005 Can one of you guys post the article? It seems to have disappeared into their archives... Thanks Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #5 July 4, 2005 With Moab becoming popular in the late 90's, I can see why jumping *may* have declined there. But saying that we all got scared away from a fatality there is total BS.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaper 0 #7 July 5, 2005 That has to be a ranger. not even a reporter is that stupid!Go forth now, to the promised lands, and swear much unto each other, with mighty profanity and many personal attacks. T.A. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #8 July 5, 2005 I do not think it to be wise to insult a ranger. Especially when we are trying to get access to legally jump... Wether or not he is or is not intelligent does not matter. In this instance it is better to let them think what they presently think... Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #9 July 5, 2005 Actually two of the most respected backcountry rescue individuals in the world are rangers, one in Utah and one in Colorado. The one in Utah is stepping down because of a new state ruling that prohibits him from getting paid as a Ranger AND goin out on rescues. Utah will start to lose many more people in the deep dark canyons. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #10 July 6, 2005 >>I do not think it to be wise to insult a ranger. Especially when we are trying to get access to legally jump...<< You're right, in a way, but there are too many of us with axes to grind. The Rangers, it can be said, aren't responsible as they are just following the law, but they have been doing it with an over-zealousness and glee that I'll never forgive or forget. The Rangers were wrong in the 60s, wrong in the 70s, wrong in the 80s, wrong in the 90s, and they are wrong now. I'm for staking a claim to our right to jump. I'm not going to play nice and then be grateful when we finally prevail. We've earned our right to jump through blood and treasure, and I will do everything in my power to my dying day to make sure the NPS never forgets how they persecuted us . . . I can see how some wouldn't agree with that, and that's fine with me. But, we're all after the same thing and it's going to take us attacking from all sides, in all ways, to finally win the day. Every time some one is busted in the Park, and they give the Rangers an earful, it furthers the cause in the same way a hundred polite letters do. There's a reason the term is freedom fighter, and not freedom writer . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #11 July 6, 2005 In the same way that we don't like all of "us" being lumped together, and many of "us" being punished for the actions of a few, it's probably best not to confuse "rangers" for "NPS policy" or "NPS establishment." There are plenty of individual people working for the NPS, and other governmental entities, who are friendly to BASE in general. I even know a couple cases where the two groups ("us" and "them") overlap in a single individual. Have I told you the story about my friend who wanted me to wear his Ranger uniform for photos jumping in NPS land? Of course, since they made it illegal, I've been too scared to jump there.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #12 July 6, 2005 Years ago, when I was going through my training to become a fire fighter, my self and the entire class were taking a break in the engine bay, when an alarm for a structure came over the load speaker. All of the sudden, the door to the day room burst open and out came the on duty fire fighters, hooting and hollering with what could almost be called laughter and glee. At first I was disgusted that these guys where getting so excited about someone loosing everything they had in the world or worse someone they loved but then I realized something more. These guys were not happy for some ones misfortune but rather they were exited to finally get to use their training. Most calls to the fire house are not for fire but rather emergency medical calls and actuall fire calls are an event to be sure. It has occurred to me that there have been rangers that have acted in the same manor as the fire fighters I saw that day. "finally, I get to chase a bad guy." It's relative I know but think about it. You become a cop, of any stripe, so that you can catch law breakers. Remember, rangers and cops do not have the option of choosing what laws they will enforce and which ones they will not. I imagine it is the same for the ranger/cop as it is for the lion on the savannah. When you run from them, you trigger something inside them that makes them want to kick your ass. In fact, that is just the sort of behavior trait needed to become a cop in the first place. Right or wrong thats just how it is. True there here have been plenty of rangers who have taken this sort of behavior way too far and there will be those who will go too far in the future, but remember that most of them are just trying to provide for their families the best way they know how. If youask me, enforcing the laws of the NPS would be far better than walking a beat in south central LA. If we treat every ranger with the same disrespect that some of them have treated us with, then we will do nothing more than drive a wedge between us and those rangers who are not so over zealous and they may be the future brass of the NPS Sure, fight the good fight and stand up for your rights, but if you break the law (even a stupid one) expect a reaction. Don't make it worse by giving the responding officers the finger. That is unless of course you actually want to get your ass kicked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #13 July 6, 2005 I dig that, and I know a few BASE friendly Rangers too. There's one fellow I put through a skydiving AFF course when he was in college who later became a Park Ranger. He told me he's met other Rangers who don't hold with the old beliefs. However he said many young Rangers, who have no preconceived ideas on parachuting, regularly get their minds poisoned by the system. After Dan Osmond (spl?) was killed rope jumping at El Cap he wrote me saying Rangers were saying, "That's makes BASE jumping look pretty sane." So sure, I know there are good and bad everywhere. But I hold the system responsible, and I hold the instruments of that system responsible too. When I was in the Marine Corps we actively protested the Vietnam War from within and it cost some of us dearly. But, the lesson I learned is when you believe something is wrong, you can't hide behind the system. NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #14 July 6, 2005 QuoteRemember, rangers and cops do not have the option of choosing what laws they will enforce and which ones they will not. This is not entirely true. Law enforcement officers are permitted great leeway in some areas and none in others. The same applies to prosecutors to an even greater degree. The fact of the matter is that making an arrest for an essentially victimless crime speaks to the character of the arresting officer, not to mention his boredom index on any given day. My experience is on the state level as to parks and the federal level as to...other things. I've been wanting to use this C.S. Lewis quote for days: Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #15 July 6, 2005 QuoteYou become a cop, of any stripe, so that you can catch law breakers. I generally agree, but I also know rangers who didn't become rangers wanting to be cops. Backcountry rangers and climbing rangers, for example, generally become rangers because it's a job that allows them to live their chosen lifestyle (hanging out in the backcountry for weeks on end, climbing big walls, etc), rather than because they want to catch law breakers. While they are deputized for law enforcement duty (the Yosemite climbing ranger hauls his gun up big walls, believe it or not), I don't think it's where their real passion lies.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #16 July 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteRemember, rangers and cops do not have the option of choosing what laws they will enforce and which ones they will not. This is not entirely true. Law enforcement officers are permitted great leeway in some areas and none in others. The same applies to prosecutors to an even greater degree--------------------------------------------------------------- I would agree with you except for the fact that the NPS has actually allocated funds for the apprehension and prosecution of BASE jumpers. I hardly think that the supervisors are going allow the officers in the field to turn a blind eye to the matter when there is money ridding on it. Also remember that their policy is one that is meant to discourage the practice of BASE jumping and that is most effectively done by rigid enforcement and the handing down stiff sentences. Not turning a blind eye (unfortunately) BTW. I liked your quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KevinMcGuire 0 #17 July 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou become a cop, of any stripe, so that you can catch law breakers. I generally agree, but I also know rangers who didn't become rangers wanting to be cops. Backcountry rangers and climbing rangers, for example, generally become rangers because it's a job that allows them to live their chosen lifestyle (hanging out in the backcountry for weeks on end, climbing big walls, etc), rather than because they want to catch law breakers. While they are deputized for law enforcement duty (the Yosemite climbing ranger hauls his gun up big walls, believe it or not), I don't think it's where their real passion lies. No doubt. I'd love to be a ranger if all I had to do all day was keep yogi from steeling picka nic baskets. What a life that would be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #18 July 6, 2005 QuoteYou're right, in a way, What I was trying to say was that there is/was a better way for him to express his thoughts in a more productive manner and still convey the same intent in the message. There are ways to say fuk you without actually saying those words and say it with a smile PS RLK nice quote, I like the part "but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #19 July 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou become a cop, of any stripe, so that you can catch law breakers. I generally agree, but I also know rangers who didn't become rangers wanting to be cops. Backcountry rangers and climbing rangers, for example, generally become rangers because it's a job that allows them to live their chosen lifestyle (hanging out in the backcountry for weeks on end, climbing big walls, etc), rather than because they want to catch law breakers. While they are deputized for law enforcement duty (the Yosemite climbing ranger hauls his gun up big walls, believe it or not), I don't think it's where their real passion lies. No doubt. I'd love to be a ranger if all I had to do all day was keep yogi from steeling picka nic baskets. What a life that would be. As soon as the NPS de-criminalizes BASE, I'll be first in line to apply for the job of Yosemite BASE Ranger.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frankj23 0 #20 July 6, 2005 I know this is stupid, but I still wonder. What if 100 or 200 BASE jumpers all showed up at El Cap and started jumping, just like at Kjerag in Norway? No official notice, no promise to get arrested....no using somebody else's gear...and no notice to the media, unless a jumper has a lead to somebody who will for sure write a sympathetic article. I just wonder.....it is a dream, but why not dream? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #21 July 6, 2005 We've even got a date for it. Check BASE 428's signature line.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicrussell 0 #22 July 6, 2005 Mass Protest. You wouldnt really need to jump, just don the rigs at the exit point. Sort of a nonviolent (non jumpin) form of civil unrest. It would bring a certain amount of publicity, but no crimes would be commited. I'll go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #23 July 6, 2005 QuoteI know this is stupid, but I still wonder. What if 100 or 200 BASE jumpers all showed up at El Cap and started jumping, just like at Kjerag in Norway? No official notice, no promise to get arrested....no using somebody else's gear...and no notice to the media, unless a jumper has a lead to somebody who will for sure write a sympathetic article. I just wonder.....it is a dream, but why not dream? I like that idea... I wonder how many rangers are on call at any given point in the day near there?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tfelber 0 #24 July 6, 2005 I also think that's a great idea. You get a strong enough showing and the powers that be might look at things a little different. Then again we might all get arrested and have our gear confiscated, but that might present the NPS and the legal system necessary to support their actions a whole other level of introspection. It may give us the leverage necessary to file a class action suit and actually make a difference in the argument. Anbody got a date in mind??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frankj23 0 #25 July 6, 2005 Putting on rigs would not get the job done. The actual jumping would be essential, the more the better. It could not be just a few, it would have to be hundreds. Sort like trying to herd cats, but it is an idea that ought to be considered. I am tired of waiting out the bums who make the irrational NPS regs, or playing by their rules with lawyers and hidebound bureaucrats. I want to see legal NPS jumping in MY lifetime, not my grandchildrens'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 0
KevinMcGuire 0 #17 July 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou become a cop, of any stripe, so that you can catch law breakers. I generally agree, but I also know rangers who didn't become rangers wanting to be cops. Backcountry rangers and climbing rangers, for example, generally become rangers because it's a job that allows them to live their chosen lifestyle (hanging out in the backcountry for weeks on end, climbing big walls, etc), rather than because they want to catch law breakers. While they are deputized for law enforcement duty (the Yosemite climbing ranger hauls his gun up big walls, believe it or not), I don't think it's where their real passion lies. No doubt. I'd love to be a ranger if all I had to do all day was keep yogi from steeling picka nic baskets. What a life that would be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #18 July 6, 2005 QuoteYou're right, in a way, What I was trying to say was that there is/was a better way for him to express his thoughts in a more productive manner and still convey the same intent in the message. There are ways to say fuk you without actually saying those words and say it with a smile PS RLK nice quote, I like the part "but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #19 July 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou become a cop, of any stripe, so that you can catch law breakers. I generally agree, but I also know rangers who didn't become rangers wanting to be cops. Backcountry rangers and climbing rangers, for example, generally become rangers because it's a job that allows them to live their chosen lifestyle (hanging out in the backcountry for weeks on end, climbing big walls, etc), rather than because they want to catch law breakers. While they are deputized for law enforcement duty (the Yosemite climbing ranger hauls his gun up big walls, believe it or not), I don't think it's where their real passion lies. No doubt. I'd love to be a ranger if all I had to do all day was keep yogi from steeling picka nic baskets. What a life that would be. As soon as the NPS de-criminalizes BASE, I'll be first in line to apply for the job of Yosemite BASE Ranger.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankj23 0 #20 July 6, 2005 I know this is stupid, but I still wonder. What if 100 or 200 BASE jumpers all showed up at El Cap and started jumping, just like at Kjerag in Norway? No official notice, no promise to get arrested....no using somebody else's gear...and no notice to the media, unless a jumper has a lead to somebody who will for sure write a sympathetic article. I just wonder.....it is a dream, but why not dream? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #21 July 6, 2005 We've even got a date for it. Check BASE 428's signature line.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicrussell 0 #22 July 6, 2005 Mass Protest. You wouldnt really need to jump, just don the rigs at the exit point. Sort of a nonviolent (non jumpin) form of civil unrest. It would bring a certain amount of publicity, but no crimes would be commited. I'll go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #23 July 6, 2005 QuoteI know this is stupid, but I still wonder. What if 100 or 200 BASE jumpers all showed up at El Cap and started jumping, just like at Kjerag in Norway? No official notice, no promise to get arrested....no using somebody else's gear...and no notice to the media, unless a jumper has a lead to somebody who will for sure write a sympathetic article. I just wonder.....it is a dream, but why not dream? I like that idea... I wonder how many rangers are on call at any given point in the day near there?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #24 July 6, 2005 I also think that's a great idea. You get a strong enough showing and the powers that be might look at things a little different. Then again we might all get arrested and have our gear confiscated, but that might present the NPS and the legal system necessary to support their actions a whole other level of introspection. It may give us the leverage necessary to file a class action suit and actually make a difference in the argument. Anbody got a date in mind??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankj23 0 #25 July 6, 2005 Putting on rigs would not get the job done. The actual jumping would be essential, the more the better. It could not be just a few, it would have to be hundreds. Sort like trying to herd cats, but it is an idea that ought to be considered. I am tired of waiting out the bums who make the irrational NPS regs, or playing by their rules with lawyers and hidebound bureaucrats. I want to see legal NPS jumping in MY lifetime, not my grandchildrens'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
