Attaching your canopy...

[TomAiello 25]

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The only problem I see is in the case of a water landing where you have to cut-away ASAP before drawing and now you have to yank on three release systems instead of just one.

Presumably, if you were jumping over water, you could remove thos extra handles/cables before the jump.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[crwper 7]

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The 3-ring loop failed in a hard opening, maybe also combined with other circumstances.

Where did the loop fail? A the fold, or at the base where it inserts into the riser?

Michael

[crwper 7]

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Further, perhaps the cable housing should be more hidden to reduce the chance of hangups on a helmet cam.

I don't think the housing is the problem here. If you pull on the housing, it should not apply an extracting force to the yellow cable. It should just tug on the white loop. The exposed section of yellow cable on the far side of the loop is a problem, though. Perhaps this could be hidden better.

Michael

[460 0]

yes, i see what you are saying. i just personally wish the exposure was a little more limited, but i don't how that could be done yet.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[DaveO 0]

This thread almost makes me want to go put my sliders back on and tie them down instead of taking them off.

"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion"

[NickDG 23]

A slider is what saved The Pick. He snapped a mini-riser (Type-17) and the broken riser caught in the slider. Instead of going in with nothing he spiraled in and survived.

It's hard to imagine BASE jumpers, even the newest ones, getting to a point where improperly set up three ring systems becomes a major sport-wide problem, but I also never thought our skydiving brothers could get as gear complacent as they've become . . . so there may be something to it.

If your rings are making you paranoid, sure you can foul them so they won't release, but does anyone remember "cross connectors?" These would still allow you to release the canopy in the water, in a tree, or LOL, when a security guard has you by the pilot chute . . .

NickD BASE 194

[DexterBase 0]

What do you guys think about just passing a zip tie through the white loop and wrapping it around the riser?

That should keep the riser from releasing. If you're doing a jump where you want the release feature, then clip the zip tie off before the jump.

In all other jumps, the zip tie should prevent the risers from releasing even if the cutaway is pulled.

When KMonster was thinking about removing her slider completely she was asking about the pros and cons of each method. I jump with my slider on, one big reason is that I like the cross-connector ability. I'd rather spin in and get banged up than just streamer in and have no chance.

She decided to leave the slider on and attach it to the front risers.

[crwper 7]

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In all other jumps, the zip tie should prevent the risers from releasing even if the cutaway is pulled.

Except if the white loop breaks.

Michael

[TomAiello 25]

I wonder if the zip tie might have a sharpish edge?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DexterBase 0]

I wonder about that too.

[pBASEtobe 0]

How about a zip tie through the little ring, as far up as it would go to help with leverage, instead of through the white loop?

Edit to add - This way if the white loop breaks OR the yellow cable gets pulled the 3-ring still wouldn't release.

[FIREFLYR 0]

could you use slinks instesd of s zip tie?

"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
"There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act"

[DexterBase 0]

I really don't see any reason why a slink through the small 3-ring wouldn't work. As long as the white loop never fails and the cutaway is never pulled, the slink would be totally transparent as far as the system goes.

Only when the cable is pulled or the wite loop breaks would the slink ever get loaded.

I'm going to make some and put them on my rig.

Just a thought, has anyone here ever taken their hook knife to a set of risers? I wonder how difficult it would be to just lop off the risers if you needed to get away from the law. I imagine my "Jack the Ripper" would make short work of a set of risers.

[pBASEtobe 0]

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I imagine my "Jack the Ripper" would make short work of a set of risers.

If you're using slinks couldn't you just pull the cutaway cable and then hack away at the slink? Wouldn't that be easier than hacking through a riser? I don't know I never seen a slink in real life and I'm not exactly sure what they're made of. Yes I've been out of skydiving for that long!

[DexterBase 0]

I think if you need to get away from the cops, it doesn't really matter what you cut. If you manage to get away, the canopy is history.

It's not like you're going to walk ino the PD and say, "Hey, I'm the guy who ran faster than you last night... you happen to see my parachute kicking around here?"

I figure the fastest thing to do would be to grab the risers and slice 'em. Trying to find a little spectra loop around your riser, in the dark, is going to cost you time you don't have.

[FIREFLYR 0]

I bought a Rescue Hook for a hook knife, they are made for cutting off seatbelts I imagine a type 17 riser would be like butter.
It would probably be a good thing to have if you needed to get a rig off an injured jumper as well.
http://www.clavey.com/se_benchmade_hook.html
~J

"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
"There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act"

[JaapSuter 0]

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Just a thought, has anyone here ever taken their hook knife to a set of risers? I wonder how difficult it would be to just lop off the risers if you needed to get away from the law.

Any hookknife that is actually worth using will slice through a loaded set of risers like it goes through butter. I was actually taught this was one of the main risks when using a hookknife. Make sure you cut only the offending line. Stay away (above) from the risers, and preferably from the other lines as well.

If you can't cut your risers with your hookknife, throw it away.

Cheers,

Jaap Suter

Disclaimer: I will not buy new risers for the person who, after reading this post, cuts them to tests his hookknife.

[DexterBase 0]

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Disclaimer: I will not buy new risers for the person who, after reading this post, cuts them to tests his hookknife.

No, it would probably be better to ask your rigger for a length of type 8 you can test it on. Fold the webbing so it's double thickness like a riser pair, then have at it.

Note: It's probably best to replace the blades on your hook knife after you've tested enough to be satisfied. I know if I need to whip out my hook knife, I want some nice shiny, webbing/line-hungry new blades on there.

[TVPB 0]

L -Bars - someone has died using them. Bad in strong winds and in flowing water. or on quick getaways. Ditto for fully sewn in risers.

THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU NEED TO CUT AWAY QUICKLY. If you use any of the systems above, make sure you have a quality knife handy.

Capewells - they are outdated for a reason. Check out Poynter's manual to see how they work. You basically have to manually unclip them. They are bulkier too.

3 - Rings. Best system available at this time IMHO. It takes stuff all time to do an inspection. i.e. minutes at most. Every jumper has this time once a month or so. If you don't have this time, you are either an extremely busy executive, a pepsi max dude with a 3 second attention span, don't give a shit. or you thought that the 3 ring inspection takes longer than it should. The inspection is worht doing. Especially for faster opening canopies (BASE) and if you do water jumps.

Future designs. Other designs already exist. There are a few patents out. Only problem is lack of marketing and not a lot of beneficial differentiation from the established 3 ring system.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

Hi Treejumps

The 3 ring system also requires a rotation / twist / bend & stretch inspection also. See your rigger for details. Its easy. Not just the visual inspection. You are referring to checking for configuration when referring to just a visual inspection.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

There can be tension in high water flows.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

Think less. Maybe not jump anymore!!!!



Think more. Maybe jump less.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

Hi Jaap

Its cool to see people doing a lot of thinking & discussing.

There seems to be a lot of discussion / debate / etc about various gear issues and configurations.

One thing that people have to remember is this: NO MATTER WHAT BANDAID/OTHER SOLUTION YOU COME UP WITH TO RESOLVE PERCEIVED OR REAL PROBLEMS WITH EQUIPMENT, YOU STILL HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF HUMAN ERROR ENTERING INTO THE EQUATION. Human error is one of the main (if not the main) root causes in all accidents.

Increasing the complexity of a system in order to reduce the likelihood of one problem occuring is very likely to lead to other problems occuring. By definition, increasing complexity means a system is harder to manage if a situation deviates from the expected. People are more likely to react incorrectly in the face of increased complexity and higher stress.

The second thing that needs to be considered with ANY perceived or real problem is the root cause. If there have been 1000 riser releases in skydiving using 3 rings, does that mean they are dangerous? You have to look at the root cause of each situation or the collective situation if someone has done all the number crunching already. If for example, you find that all the riser releases occured on a certain type of gear whilst inexperienced jumpers were performing a certain maneouvre, then you fix that scenario. The problem is then minimised.

Most three ring releases occur because:

- cable is too short.
- cable is too short.
- loop is far too large.
- loop is incorrect material, improperly installed, or excessively worn. Not many people replace this loop yet it does wear out.
- cutaway handle is not firmly attached to its "mounting position" - i.e. worn velcro, etc.
- the cutaway handle it to "catchy". I recommend the soft loop behind the lift web for BASE gear or a lower profile handle.
- the cable is far too exposed to catch points, especially near the cutaway handle or the loop.
- design issues - one that comes to mind is routing. If the cable is routed in a complex fashion around the harness/container and the path is not firm (i.e. the cable can be tensioned/loosened by the parachutist moving in the harness), there is a chance that the cable can be pulled / cutaway. Check the worst case cable length by packing the gear and then pulling and twisting it to see where the end of the cable ends up.
- etc.

I check my 3 rings on every jump (30 secs), and I do the flex tests frequently.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Treejumps 0]

Zip ties were used in the early to mid 80s by jumpers who wanted a little extra guarantee. I still think that a properly maintained 3 ring sytem is bombproof. I don't know what happened to the failed loop, but Bill Booth posts on DZ.com and can elaboraate on the actual forces plpaced on the loop. I have the 3 ring design specs to build risers, and I have tried to learn all I can from Bill's explanation of forces on the 3 ring system. Accordingly, the force on the loop should never exceed 75#. At 75# the cable gets sucked through the grommet. The loop is rated at 550#, and it is double where the little ring touches it. Therefore the loop had to have its strength diminshed by a factor approcahing 75% for the break to occur, otherwise the cable would have gone through the grommet. Something does not add up with the loop failure. Maybe a burr on the little ring ate through the loop. You would have to drap your gear miles to wear out a loop enough for that kind of failure. Check your gear. Its not the 1 in 1000 thing that kills us, its the 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 thing that gets us.

[TomAiello 25]

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It's not like you're going to walk ino the PD and say, "Hey, I'm the guy who ran faster than you last night... you happen to see my parachute kicking around here?"

A jumper has successfully used "hey, my parachute was stolen from the dropzone yesterday...oh my gosh, they used it in a BASE jump?!" to get confiscated gear back.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com