Attaching your canopy...

[pBASEtobe 0]

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I think if you need to get away from the cops, it doesn't really matter what you cut.

Yeah, I was thinking the hook knife wouldn't cut through the risers in one cut.

[manship 0]

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Zip ties were used in the early to mid 80s by jumpers who wanted a little extra guarantee. I still think that a properly maintained 3 ring sytem is bombproof.

The loop is rated at 550

Hi Tree,

Well, I don't agree that a 3-ring system is bombproof. It is a good system, but can fail (usually due to improper rigging or wear/age).

The main thing on your post I want to point out is, that the closing loop has a much lower strength than 550 pounds. The loop is made of Type III SLEEVEING, not the whole cord with the inner strands. it is only the whole cord intact (not stripped of the inner strands) that is rated at 550 pounds. I don't remember the strength of the sleeve, but it is considerably less. It is somewhat subject to wear, and is the same thing as your pin closing loops are made of (usually). For BASE only (not skydiving) a more durable alternative MAY be the smallest braided line one could find - much stronger and wears better, though may require manual pulling and tugging to get a release (hence, NOT suitable for skydiving, but more "releaseable" than L bars for BASE).

Another idea if one wanted to turn his 3 rings into a non releaseable system, is to just put the smallest french link through the loop. In emergency, the loop could be cut (oops, there goes another $80).

If one wished a different set of hardware, then Capewell releases are quite sturdy, and having several break aways with them, I can say they work well when understood, properly assembled, and maintained/inspected -- like any other system. Another system one could possibly use for custom design harnesses is Koch releases or the Rocket Jet releases that were on Pioneer "piggyback" containers featuring "switchable" reserves (switchable from piggyback to chest mounts). I don't know if any real gain would be made using these other releases, but sure would get ya some conversation!!

Since this isn't face to face, you may not be able to tell it is intended to be non-confrontational, so I add this disclaimer to that effect!

later,
t

==========================================

I didn't invent skydiving, but I jumped with the guys who did.

[Treejumps 0]

Hi Tom,

Those are all great points Tom, and I agree that a 3 ring system is not 100% guaranteed, especially given the 4 or 5 innadvertant release being discussed. It is a really good system when properly set up and maintained. At 250#s I load that system more than most BASE jumpers, and I feel confident that it will continue to work for me. I check my 3 ring before every jump, and that is an important step in the proper operation.

The 3 ring release manual calls for Type 2A, 550# sheathing (mil-T-5038). I don't know if it is always followed, but that is what the spec is. Also acording to the manual , when a 600# force is applied to the riser the force needed to extract the cable should be 2 to 6#s.

I hate that people have to get hurt to bring up gear topics liek this, but this is a good discussion. Being able to release is not always required, but it is useful to have, and sometimes, like a swift water landing, an absolute must. Until something better comes along most jumpers will continue to use the 3 ring, and it is important to know your gear inside and out, chech it before each jump, and replace it if in any doubt.

Thanks for the discussion, and thanks again for the jump.

[NickDG 23]

I jumped with Capewells too and the problem I see with them in the BASE environment is, even when closed, they aren't that snag proof. I'm thinking of the bridle catch during an over-rotated aerial or just plain being unstable. They are also so beefy a bad landing, or hitting something can have the Capewell break your collar bone.

The later versions of the Capewell, like the Velcro closed types, aren't secure enough for BASE. (Hell, they weren't really secure enough for skydiving). The Rocket Releases were intended for non-emergency use and can be hard to operate in a hurry or if you are hurt.

I think the only time a quick release is needed is for intentional water landings, or for when there is a chance you "might" land in water. Other than that if the Three Ring scares you go with L-bars. Ditching your gear in a hurry with L-bars just means dropping the whole rig, and a hook knife will always get you out of tree.

Another thing is even with the recent "incident" we've been using the Three Ring system to BASE jump with for almost thirty years without an undo amount of problems . . .

NickD BASE 194

[Spy38W 0]

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The main thing on your post I want to point out is, that the closing loop has a much lower strength than 550 pounds. The loop is made of Type III SLEEVEING, not the whole cord with the inner strands. it is only the whole cord intact (not stripped of the inner strands) that is rated at 550 pounds. I don't remember the strength of the sleeve, but it is considerably less.

100# for the coreless sleeve

--
Hook high, flare on time

[Treejumps 0]

That would be for the gutted Type II, but the spec is Type IIA, which has no core to start with, so it can't actually be "coreless". I'm guessing that Bill Booth's spec of 550# Type IIa is probably correct. I'll call and check it out. It would be nice to know for sure.

[crwper 7]

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That would be for the gutted Type II, but the spec is Type IIA, which has no core to start with, so it can't actually be "coreless".

From Poynter Volume I, Section 4.040, describing MIL-C-5040...

Cord         Tensile      Identifying             Core         Feet

Type         Strength     Marks                                per

(lb)                                              Pound


Type II      400          Black dotted stripe     4-7          315

Type IIa     225                                  Coreless     495

Type III     550          Plain                   7-9          225     

Type III coreless         Plain                   Coreless

Tensile strength for Type III coreless is, for some reason, missing. My impression has always been that Type IIa is just coreless Type II, but I could be wrong on that. There's a green dotted stripe on the white loop on my risers.

Michael

P.S. Tensile Strength in the above table is the minimum tensile strength; Feet per Pound is minimum feet per pound.

[Treejumps 0]

Thanks, I could not find my manual.

[460 0]

I can think of several life threatening scenarios where the need to cutaway is while the lines are under tension.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[greeny 0]

I have used my 3-ring cutaway a number of times, I like the system and think that for the type of jumping I do I need a quick and easy cutaway system.

I have personaly cut my canopy away:

>Hanging in trees (Cops on route and back country)
>Canopy hooked on Pole (downtown)
>Intentional still water landings (much easier to swim if cutaway and pulled by PC)
> I also use it for faster get aways when needed. I stuff my rig leaving my harness and helmet on and run. When I reach my car i cut my rigg and drive.

I also heard about a guy who landed next to fast flowing water, his canopy droppedin and dragged him in with it (integral risers). He drowned. This is second or third hand info............... anyone know any more??

Greeny

[TomAiello 25]

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I also heard about a guy who landed next to fast flowing water, his canopy droppedin and dragged him in with it (integral risers). He drowned. This is second or third hand info............... anyone know any more??

I believe you may be thinking of a fatality here a few years back. If I recall correctly, the jumper had a 3 ring system. He just spent too long (in this case that may only have been a few seconds) trying to recover the canopy rather than just cutting it away and letting the river have it.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[greeny 0]

Tom,

I was told it was a few miles up river from you??

Greeny

[TomAiello 25]

Yep. That's the one. It's #54 on the list.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[riggerrob 558]

I thought "gutted 550 cord" (aka Type IIA) had a tensile strength of 300 pounds.

[riggerrob 558]

If you need to cut away, for example landing in fast-moving water, then you need three-rings, or some similar quick-release system.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

How well do Seawars work in fresh water?

Evil laughter!!!