Something's happening...

[JaapSuter 0]

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We'll agree to disagree then. For me, McDonalds - or MTV; or Pepsi; or Redbull for that matter - slapping a 'fun face' on BASE and pitching it as 'cool' with a capital C; conveniently wallpapering over the slightly nastier issues of injury and death and fear and sadness, well, for me that's harmful. It's harmful in many ways, not least because it's a selective lie. It's not the FULL picture. It's a distortion of reality; a misrepresentation. It shows just one facade, the marketable one, the one people want to buy into.

I don't think we disagree that much. We might lay the blame elsewhere though.

I am very worried about what the media is doing in our world and how their misrepresentations, illusions, one-sidedness, lack-of-impartiality and subjectivity are causing the general population to lose their ability to think and increase their fear of doubt.

I don't have television for this exact reason.

However, I don't blame the media. They're just providing what the people ask for. In a capitalist world (which I think is the least harmful economic system, sans too much Laisez Faire) providing what the customer wants is the only way to stay alive.

What really needs to change is how the public consumes media output and their level of skeptisism and doubt toward it. For that to happen, we need to invest more in education and change our opinions about those who teach.

Is there a more noble thing than to share knowledge?

Maybe the media is evil. But they can be only because the people is stupid. Change the people, and the media will follow.

I have a dream... wanders off in offtopic rambling soapbox style

To bring it back on topic; is the media image of base really that far from reality? I'm not sure. The public believes it is dangerous. The public believes it is mostly illegal. The public realizes that it is a sport and not a lunatic's passion. The public thinks lots of people die doing it, and that it causes a lot of grief.

If anything, the people think it is more dangerous than we think it is.

[JaapSuter 0]

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Just so we're clear, if McDonalds wants to pay the bills, I'm not too proud to wear a clown outfit and jump a Happy Meal canopy.

Ha! I'd like to see that! Forget about the canopy, just dress up as a clown. I'd like to see a come-back of the adventures of Boozy the Clown. Back when Whiskey was cool, and MTV hadn't stolen the idea and turned it into Jackass yet.

[Treejumps 0]

Can I jump the Hamburgler outfit. He is BASE material all the way.

[avenfoto 0]

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...lets not forget he and crew are pulling off some pretty sick-ass shit... sicker than most...

Two questions:

1) Is BASE really a quest to pull off the most "sick-ass shit"?

2) What is your basis for comparison, that has led you to conclude that any particular group of jumpers is "sicker" than any other? How many different groups have you jumped with and/or observed before making this conclusion?

1) absolutley not, and i dont belive i implied that either....
2) opinions are like assholes in the vein that everyone has one, and belives that only thiers is the one that does not stink...
-b

[avenfoto 0]

and anyone with balls enough to pack a rig, commit suicide, and subvert that fate with an inflatable wing shortly thereafter, is pretty "sick-ass" in my opinion...ymmv

[vandev 0]

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We'll agree to disagree then. For me, McDonalds - or MTV; or Pepsi; or Redbull for that matter - slapping a 'fun face' on BASE and pitching it as 'cool' with a capital C; conveniently wallpapering over the slightly nastier issues of injury and death and fear and sadness, well, for me that's harmful. It's harmful in many ways, not least because it's a selective lie. It's not the FULL picture. It's a distortion of reality; a misrepresentation. It shows just one facade, the marketable one, the one people want to buy into.

Well when you get on a plane do they show crash pictures of planes that went down and bodies of passengers..... or when you go diving ...do they show you people who ran out of air or drowned... how about when you go surfing..how about a person with there limb gone after a shark took them for a snack.... I could go on but It's fruitless.... They are not lying...they are telling you what you want to hear..All the products you see sponsored on race cars are highly visible on TV. I doubt that you will see a Chicken Micknugget sticker on Tom A's rig in the near futue. Even know he is jumping allot and Highly visible in base does not mean he will sell Micknuggets...

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Look at the queues for the reality shows. People with zero talent and even less intelligence, all scrambling to catch a slice of fame and fortune at any cost. That's your generation of gonna-be basejumpers right there. That's what BIG money brings in. A sea of greedy, selfish, cut-throat wannabes. But hey, among them we might have the next BASE version of Tony Hawk.

Not that i ever watch these lame ass shows....well my kids do....its just entertainment...and ratings dont lie...and sells advertising. It's hard to tell if they have no talent because most of the stuff they do is thought up by the show producers so it would be hard to practice for. As for any of them base jumping i highly doubt it...All the stunts they have to do are run by stunt people so they are safe.... "Most Deadly Season" is a reality show and they are some crazy ass people...they do this for a living not for fun.... You could not get me out there for a Million bucks.....You should check the Darwin #'s for thoes guys...And for big money....dont knock people trying to take a shot and a few dollars....This is America ya know...

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[sabre210 0]

whoooosssshhhhh

"What was that?"

"That was the point!!!!.....and you just missed it."

ian

[vandev 0]

I was just saying that they dont wallpaper over the black side, they just dont show it... Thats not a bad thing...They do that in everything..... Sorry if i did not completly understand....

for instance...check this out as it is a msn advertising flyer on msn's home page. Millions see this

http://www.expedia.com/daily/deals/Daredevil-Adventures/default.asp?eapid=7208-1

And yes base did not make the cut....

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[sabre210 0]

"wallpapering over" - "they just don't show it" - semantics. Two metaphors for the same thing: Hiding aspects of the truth.

This is BASE jumping. An activity where every option really, really ,really needs to be considered. Knowledge and harsh reality checks are our only weapons against certain injury and death....everytime; i repeat, every single time we jump. It's not the environment to be deluded. Knowing the facts, examining the evidence is what keeps us alive, so i disagree, not facing up to the grim realities is a bad thing. Painting a sanitized face on an intrinsically risky persuit is insanity. It displays a complete lack of understanding of the people who do it, and it utterly mis-sells to those who might consider doing it.

Skyglider. Are you a BASE jumper? I think it's important for us to understand where you're approaching this from.

[vandev 0]

Yes it is base jumping...Even a certified moron knows if you jump off of something 1200 ft high there is surely a risk of death. Just as someone who freedives...look at thoes fatality numbers...but you still see more of that on TV than you will base. Not because it is safer but because of the sheer numbers who partisipate..

As for facing the grim realities of stepping out side your front door....just stepping out is a grim reality...

I am a crappy painter....i hate painting...It's boring..

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[vandev 0]

Your to funny....I just watched that OLN thing on TV last night.. Actually 2 of my kids and the wife watched it and i was surprised to see they really enjoyed it. Only one of my kids can make it threw continuum 1 and 2.....I said the same thing ..that was this the 80's but the kids thought it was cool....

So tell me what do you see in the future?

Dont tell me all white..........

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[skyglider 0]

I was actually being a bit sarcastic when talking about the over kill of a marketing image hence the suv and picture phone – it’s just that’s the way t.v. seems to be – I thought I was rolling every commercial into one. I don't watch t.v. All I really watch is footage of BASE jumps and skydiving. I really don’t shop either. Although I still think that advertisers are going to love what BASE will offer them and that it will change the way people everywhere view the sport which will bring changes to the sport itself. I think it’s the people who are already putting together videos and the true BASE athletes that are going to be able to best portray what BASE is really all about. Through those modes of exposure, I think advertisers will capture the beauty in the reality of the sport making the viewer feel like they’re somehow a part of the jump/the experience – it could easily revolve around feelings of accomplishment, risk and reward, being successful, concentrated efforts, meticulous planning, setting goals and achieving them, dedication, motivation, capturing moments of life second by second. Besides I hate clowns.

The main reason I care about the marketing potential of BASE is because I want to see those people who are passionate about this sport make a good living doing what they are dedicating their life to. I think they will. My post was to support the BASE jumpers who only want to see the sport succeed. They are the ones making sacrifices to live their dream and to protect the sport. You have to be dedicated to BASE. You can’t just throw in a BASE jump here and there and expect to get good or stay alive or portray what the sport is all about. The BASE jumpers that spend all their time thinking about the sport and spend all of their time and save every penny that they have to put into the sport of BASE deserve to profit from it – probably most BASE jumpers don’t want or need to make money doing it – that they do it because it’s already offering them other things that they value beside supporting themselves – my post never touched upon that side of it – that’s an entirely different topic in my head. I get excited thinking about the potential growth and reward for the dedicated athletes. I also think that the right exposure can help bring changes to laws that will make our “world” more pro-BASE than not as well as supply funds for more research for better BASE stuff. That’s where I was coming from last night. I think the reason BASE is a good thing to share with the world **in it’s right light** is because it’s never been shown in it’s true glory. Has it? I think it can be a life changing experience to go from never knowing about BASE to knowing about it and then craving more.

I truly believe that the sport of BASE is a very sacred thing, and it’s fragileness (concerns with dazeblazing, site naming, burning a site, harming the environment, etc.) is taken very seriously by most experienced jumpers as it needs to be at this stage of it’s life. With that said, there are all types of BASE jumpers out there and no real designated authority within the entire scope of the sport when you take into account of all the B, A, S, and E on this planet. Some do it in the night, others do it in the day. Some do it from the rails, and some do it from where they are told to do it. Some do it illegally or should I say stealth, and some do it like robots. Some keep it undercover, and some shout from the exit points. Some are stupid, and some are smart. Some climb, and some ride. Some do it solo, and some don’t. Some are reserved, and some are more vibrant in their expressions. Who is anyone to say that one person’s experience with BASE should be like the next person’s? BASE jumpers are distinct individuals with all sorts of different personalities. It shows in their various styles. Who is anyone to say that they are better than the next? I once read – “if you compare yourself to others you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.”

The BASE community seems to be at odds all the time when it comes to the evolution of the sport and how it really should be evolving. I just gave my thoughts on the subject. Change is an inevitable part of life. Being adaptable is the only way to survive. There are professionals out there already in the sport of BASE that are making a positive impact with what they’re doing for the sport and that’s really exciting to a lot of people – including myself. There are those who would love to make a good living BASE jumping – not for the ego part of it at all, just so they could do more BASE off more high things around the world. They’re inspired to do more than just follow and I think that’s a good thing.

I dreamed all night about jumping and had a great time reading your posts when I got home tonight. I'm sure I've once again said something that someone doesn't agree with, but that's what a forum is all about right? - discussing thoughts and ideas with a variety of different people and considering the opinions of others.

[Treejumps 0]

Maybe I missed the answer in your last 3 full pages of writing, but the question asked a couple of different times was "are you a base jumper?". Have you ever base jumped?

[veter_ 0]

"Shut up and jump!"

[The111 0]

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Just as someone who freedives...look at thoes fatality numbers...but you still see more of that on TV than you will base. Not because it is safer but because of the sheer numbers who partisipate..

Slightly off topic, but where the hell do you see freediving on TV? Hardly anyone I know even knows the meaning of the word "freediving". I explain it to skydivers (and "normal" people ) all the time, and one thing I consider interesting is that people are much more "whuffo" about freediving than they are about parachuting. As much as the general public ridicules skydiving, many people want to try it at least once. But not many people I talk to understand why I want to go underwater and hold my breath for a few minutes, nor do they have any desire to try for themselves.

I'm also not sure about the "sheer number who participate". One of the reasons I rarely dive anymore is because I got sick of going alone (not to mention how dangerous some would consider that).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[littlestranger 0]

Ok, I'm trying to understand this idealized marketing dream you have for BASE and I have to ask myself why. Why market BASE? When you have so few BASE Jumpers in the world and fewer people interested in what many consider a suicidal mission. The bottom line is...there is NO MARKET for BASE. If some guy can't make money off it, he's not going to invest in it. The world is just not ready for it. The best way to get BASE out in the mainstream is through documentaries like Adrenaline Rush. You have to have a viable market to target before you start marketing to it. BASE is too small, it's not financially smart to throw money at it on a big scale.

The day I can walk into a sporting goods store and buy a pilot chute for my skydiving rig will be the day the mainstream is ready to be exposed to BASE on a bigger scale.

You don't my any chance work in marketing?

[sabre210 0]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and guess that you're not a BASE jumper. I'm basing this on many, many things you have written, but a subtle example being:

[B] I think the reason BASE is a good thing to share with the world **in it’s right light** is because it’s never been shown in it’s true glory. Has it? [/B]

I don't know why, i just think that if you were a BASE jumper, you'd know (in your mind) one way or the other if video was ever capable of capturing what it is to jump. If I'm wrong, then I apologise.

What does it matter whether you are a jumper or not? Well it kind of does and it kind of doesn't? You are certainly right that you're entitled to your views (jumper or not), and equally correct that a discussion forum is the venue to air them.

For me, reading your posts, i feel a need to know if you are; a BASE jumper who has the fire, and who has a vision for where they see BASE taking them and indirectly maybe me; or a non BASE jumper who is fired up having viewed some footage, thinks they understand the motivations of jumpers in general, and wants to try to market it and deliver it to a mass audience, making a bit of money in the process.

The former i would say is deluded , the latter over excited and arrogant. Either way, you seem to only be able to value BASE in terms of it's broader appeal or marketability. In Short, how can we make money from this. You said so yourself.

To distill BASE down into this, to me, SCREAMS!!!!! out that you haven't even come close to understanding what it is that drives most people to do this.

You're no doubt a very nice person, and i hope you appreciate this isn't an attack on you, but a criticism of what i believe are yout really misguided dreams.

[crwper 7]

Sure, these things aren't as obvious in the real world as they are inside your head, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. You need to look for them, because it's not as easy as the stuff in your head. It all looks different. It's somehow messier than the crystalline visions of one person. But the real world is surprisingly versatile and adaptable. I speak from experience when I say, if you think the world is playing catch-up with your grand vision, you need to look a little more at the world around you, and a little less at the world as it exists inside your head.

Michael

[kleggo 138]

Two questions:

1) Is BASE really a quest to pull off the most "sick-ass shit"?

Well, since you asked, definately NOT in my world.

BASE, to me, is about;in no particualr order
feeling peace on the exit point.
satisfaction
confidence
relationships
exercise
being in the "great outdoors"
solitude
messing with gear
beautiful sunrises
and more...................................

be safe

kleggo

[crwper 7]

Kleggo,

I dig your list. It reminds me of the diversity of reasons people do this.

Michael

[mccordia 73]

This saterday/sunday...Holland wil be hosting this countries first legal base-jumping 'contest'..

I think acceptence is going up a bit....but still...one false step and it's back to the stone-age...I think...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[jimmyh 0]

Hey Guys,
Getty, the worlds largest stock photo agency just picked up three of my BASE jumping images for potential advertising shots.

I get 50% of whatever they sell them for. They have access to a huge market of potential advertisers. One of the images is a beautiful shot of JT and Karina Hollekim holding hands while doing a gainer in Norway. I doubt they would have gone to the trouble to find me and ask for model releases if they didn't think the shot has potential as an advertising image.

Like it says on my website...For those who don't already know, BASE jumping is the next "big Thing."

I just didn't know that it was other BASE jumpers who didn't know that.

What's the harm in thinking big?

-jimmy

[tfelber 0]

I think you guys are totally misinterpreting skyglider's vision.

littlestranger, skyglider is not talking about marketing to BASE and the BASE community. It's about using the excitement of BASE jumping in advertisements for other goods to catch people's interest.

sabre210 and many others, it's not about selling out hopes and dreams, it's about accomplishing something that a number of people are putting a great deal of effort into which is improving the public's perception of BASE and possibly regaining access to many of the best exit points in the US and elsewhere.

I would love to go to Yosemite and make some jumps without the risk of getting arrested. If companies using BASE jumping footage to attract customers' attention enables non-jumpers to see the beauty of a jump gone well and thereby get behind the legalization effort, all the better.

The person who jumped for the video is no different than most of the video out today. A single commercial would surely pay a great deal more than all the revenue from all the Triax videos combined. I don't see that as a bad thing.

I don't think the release of Radix, Continuum, Thread the Needle, etc. has taken from BASE. It may have made it less underground which may remove some of the aura of the endeavor, but I'm not in it for the aura.

Publicity probably makes it look easier and less dangerous than it really is, but perception and facts often vary greatly.

[jimmyh 0]

WORD.

[littlestranger 0]

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littlestranger, skyglider is not talking about marketing to BASE and the BASE community. It's about using the excitement of BASE jumping in advertisements for other goods to catch people's interest.

I understand this, I guess what I was trying to say (apparently not very successfully
Skydiving is only now bridging that gap, I see more skydiving images today than ever, just don't think BASE is there yet.