Perky77 0 #26 February 5, 2004 I did my first 200 jumps after student status on a Sabre 170, loaded about 1.1, Loved it, had one bad opening that was my fault in packing it. From what I have heard it is the lightly loaded sabre's that tend to be more violent openings. I now have a sabre2 150, like it, but like the spectre 150 I have jumped several times also. Edit to say: and I never rolled the nose. "Sacrifice is a part of life. It is supposed to be. It's not something you regret . It's something to aspire to." Mitch Albom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #27 February 6, 2004 I'm a relatively new jumper and I purchased a used Sabre 1 size 150 and loaded it at 1.1 - exactly what you are getting ready to do. First, I would reccomend you sit down with a rigger, especially if you are buying used and have him/her look it over. (obviously) As far as hard openings, I haven't had ONE. Learn to pack it correctly and give it a lot of love and it'll open everytime w/o trying to take your head off. I've heard a bunch of rants/raves about hard openings at DZ's. When these people see me jumping a Sabre 1 I normally have to listen to a 15-20 lecture on how a Sabre2 is so much nicer and how much Sabre1's suck. I just smile and keep on doing what I'm doing. There are a bunch of ways to pack a Sabre that will minimize the opening impact, the one I use, and the one that seems to be repeated more often than not, is rolling the center cells toward the nose and taking special care with the slider and the tail. A Sabre1 is a 9 cell, so roll the first 4 cells toward the middle nice and tight and tuck em in. Do the same for the last 4 cells. I would also reccomend you think about getting an enlarged slider (talk to that rigger). It's not an absolute, but I got one on my used Sabre and I think it helps. So, as somebody who's done what you are getting ready to do, I say go for it. They're inexpensive, good learning canopies, and they still can give one hell of a ride. I don't claim to be an expert, but almost all my jumps are on Sabre1's.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #28 February 6, 2004 " Just as a note here, old Sabres make brilliant wingsuit canopies. Our decreased vertical speed make for better openings and Sabres open straight all the time. They are also dirt cheap on the used market" I'm looking for a Sabre 120 or 135 to borrow, rent or buy ultra cheap just for that purpose if anyone has one they'd like to share.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimDave 0 #29 February 6, 2004 I have an old Sabre 150 with who knows how many jumps on it. It is so "experienced" that the data panel was unreadable and PD replaced it when I got it relined. It opens great after a lot of jumps. Be particular about how you pack it and it should treat you good. BTW this trusty old Sabre is now for sale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMonkey 0 #30 February 6, 2004 Quotewhats your opinion on a Sabre canopy i wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy....ok, maybe on my worst enemy, but nobody else... --------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #31 February 6, 2004 Quotethe trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. The manufacturer absolutely recommends Do Not do this. It can cause off heading openings and damage the nose of the center cell. That is an old trick passed around by a lot of well meaning jumpers who just didn't know any better. Some of them are even very experienced.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #32 February 6, 2004 QuoteThe manufacturer absolutely recommends Do Not do this. It can cause off heading openings and damage the nose of the center cell. That is an old trick passed around by a lot of well meaning jumpers who just didn't know any better. Some of them are even very experienced. alan That certain manufacturer also denies there is a problem with hard openings on that particular canopy. saying it is a packing/user issue. I have the broken knuckles to prove it is a bit more of a packing issue with that canopy. but you are right it will damage the nose of that cell. what people need to do is add a pocket slider and not mess with the nose. YMMV... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #33 February 7, 2004 I'd call it more of a design issue than a packing issue. The Sabre was aleading edge canopy that set the standard for performance for many years after it was first introduced and the fact that it is still a popular canopy and in production is a testament to that. Times have changed though because ten years ago few experienced skydivers would have suggested the Sabre as a good student/novice canopy, yet aside from wing loading issues, today that is fairly commonplace. All of that aside though, the Sabre design has over time proven to be inconsistent by todays standards with respect to opening characteristics. Some people have put in hundreds and hundreds of jumps on them and no complaints. Others have had very bad experiences and then there are the vast majority who have had the occassional slammer. All are valid. Any canopy that requires a modification to the slider to tame the openings has more than packing issues. The Sabre was a great canopy in its' heyday, but the more modern models available today have set a new standard, with many that stay in the "snivel" phase of the opening sequence longer than is really necessary. My guess is that we would see more of the newer designs open in the 400' to 600' that was typical of the Sabre design but the 600' to 800' foot openings on newer designs have motivated us to start opening a little higher, reinforcing a trend in the saftey and training recommendations. With the right balance of snatch force, snivel, and inflation, 600' openings can be soft enough to satisfy even the most wary of camera/video jumpers. The Sabre did that, just not with enough consistency and besides, we are always striving to improve.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aerialcameraman 0 #34 February 7, 2004 IF i'm not jumping I'm packing for other and have learned the whole roll the nose thing is for the birds. You pack the way you want to but I never have rolled a nose on a canopy and people ask for me to pack and complament me on the opennings. Even a sabre. I just push the nose in, pull the slider all the way to the front, fold the stablizeris and the roll the tail tight. NO problem i have even jumped a sabre with the nose not rolled and it openned sweat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #35 February 7, 2004 QuoteI think I already know the answers I'll get, but whats your opinion on a Sabre canopy. I'm looking at a 170 and have been told they can have some real violent opening shocks. Also would it be good for a beginner? It would be loaded at just over 1.1. Thanks Marc Hey Marc, How you doing up in New York? Asking about sabre openings is a good way to start a controversial thread. Thanks. It gave me a lot of new material for my compilation of "SabreWhack" stories. Go to the gear page and read my review of the sabre that everyone wrote for me. I'm off work now. Not jumping or flying and will probably have double discechtomy as a result of the chronic whiplash I had from jumping sabres years ago.For all you young and invincible jumpers out there who think it's OK to have an opening as violent as a car wreck every hundred jumps or so, Remember, Sooner or later the bills come due. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #36 February 7, 2004 You warned me not to start a thread about this, but every rig I see seems to have a Sabre in it. Maybe thats why there for sale. Thanks Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apley 0 #37 February 7, 2004 the sabre has a reputation for hard openings. you want snivel and soft, forgiving landings while you perfect your canopy skills? buy a SPECTRE! i'm on my 2nd one, and if you don't believe i'm a landing retard, ask anyone at my dz... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #38 February 7, 2004 My first canopy was a Sabre 170, and I miss it! It was really good to me. So, yes, it's a great beginner canopy (mine was loaded just over 1:1 too). Mine didn't slam me too badly until I had it relined (I had bought it used, with 300 or so jumps on it -- apparently the trim change softened the openings). The rigger here has had some success softening Sabre openings with slightly larger sliders. But the problem can be largely solved through meticulous packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivingdutch 0 #39 February 7, 2004 I have a sabre 135 that always opens nice. I have never had a slammer yet. http://dropman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #40 February 7, 2004 I am a newbie and did a whole lot of research prior to buying a rig and the majority of responses were in favor of the the sabre2. With my exit weight @ 188 the 190 was perfect. I have 5 jumps on it and all were off heading, but not severe. With reading these threads I guess this season is going to be a "whacker". Body position has a huge effect?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #41 February 7, 2004 It just comes out of nowhere.Don't do anything different packing,and all the sudden your looking for the train....Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #42 February 8, 2004 QuoteI am a newbie and did a whole lot of research prior to buying a rig and the majority of responses were in favor of the the sabre2. Quote This thread is not about the sabre2. That is a different canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #43 February 8, 2004 QuoteI'd call it more of a design issue than a packing issue This is what I was getting at...but I find it interesting that PD still denies it has any hard opening tendencies....that kind irks me.. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflajankie 0 #44 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuotethe trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. The manufacturer absolutely recommends Do Not do this. It can cause off heading openings and damage the nose of the center cell. That is an old trick passed around by a lot of well meaning jumpers who just didn't know any better. Some of them are even very experienced. I do this ALL the time. I also Psyko pack which PD doesn't reccomend on their canopies. But to me it's perfect. If I pack it normally thats when I get bad openings. So I think it's a preference of how you pack and how good you are at packing it that way. I jump a Sabre 107 and I don't have any problems with it. When I started I had a Sabre 170. So I can definately reccomend the Sabre.Skydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #45 February 8, 2004 Quotethe trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. I don't roll the nose 4/4 into the center. I take all the cells and roll them all in one direction. It is faster to pack and it creates more of a snivel. I understand what PD is saying, the center cell would take a lot of abuse if you did the 4/4 into the center method. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #46 February 9, 2004 Thanks Tomspoon, Didnt know there was such a difference between the sabre & sabre 2. Thanks to these forums, I do now?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #47 February 9, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. QuoteI do this ALL the time. So do a lot of other people. I even used to ten years ago. Most will never have a problem, but every now and then some one will need to get their canopy repaired because of the load put on the nose by tucking the rolled cells into the center.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #48 February 9, 2004 QuoteSo do a lot of other people. I even used to ten years ago. Most will never have a problem, but every now and then some one will need to get their canopy repaired because of the load put on the nose by tucking the rolled cells into the center I agree I have seen the damage that this causes and the guy had to get the center cell repaired. he didn't do the 4 n 4 thing. he was taking all of em and rolling them into the center cell... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #49 February 10, 2004 Quotehe didn't do the 4 n 4 thing. he was taking all of em and rolling them into the center cell... Uhhh correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "taking all of em and rolling them into the center" the 4 n 4 thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomSpoon 2 #50 February 11, 2004 QuoteI have a sabre 135 that always opens nice. I have never had a slammer yet. Dear skydivingdutch, From your profile I see you only have about 65 jumps on your sabre. Here, hang on to this link. http://www.neckreference.com/anatomy.html You'll need it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
skymedic 0 #43 February 8, 2004 QuoteI'd call it more of a design issue than a packing issue This is what I was getting at...but I find it interesting that PD still denies it has any hard opening tendencies....that kind irks me.. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflajankie 0 #44 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuotethe trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. The manufacturer absolutely recommends Do Not do this. It can cause off heading openings and damage the nose of the center cell. That is an old trick passed around by a lot of well meaning jumpers who just didn't know any better. Some of them are even very experienced. I do this ALL the time. I also Psyko pack which PD doesn't reccomend on their canopies. But to me it's perfect. If I pack it normally thats when I get bad openings. So I think it's a preference of how you pack and how good you are at packing it that way. I jump a Sabre 107 and I don't have any problems with it. When I started I had a Sabre 170. So I can definately reccomend the Sabre.Skydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #45 February 8, 2004 Quotethe trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. I don't roll the nose 4/4 into the center. I take all the cells and roll them all in one direction. It is faster to pack and it creates more of a snivel. I understand what PD is saying, the center cell would take a lot of abuse if you did the 4/4 into the center method. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #46 February 9, 2004 Thanks Tomspoon, Didnt know there was such a difference between the sabre & sabre 2. Thanks to these forums, I do now?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #47 February 9, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the trick someone showed me is too role the 4 left cells into the left half of center cell and the right 4 cells into the right half of the center cell. QuoteI do this ALL the time. So do a lot of other people. I even used to ten years ago. Most will never have a problem, but every now and then some one will need to get their canopy repaired because of the load put on the nose by tucking the rolled cells into the center.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #48 February 9, 2004 QuoteSo do a lot of other people. I even used to ten years ago. Most will never have a problem, but every now and then some one will need to get their canopy repaired because of the load put on the nose by tucking the rolled cells into the center I agree I have seen the damage that this causes and the guy had to get the center cell repaired. he didn't do the 4 n 4 thing. he was taking all of em and rolling them into the center cell... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #49 February 10, 2004 Quotehe didn't do the 4 n 4 thing. he was taking all of em and rolling them into the center cell... Uhhh correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "taking all of em and rolling them into the center" the 4 n 4 thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #50 February 11, 2004 QuoteI have a sabre 135 that always opens nice. I have never had a slammer yet. Dear skydivingdutch, From your profile I see you only have about 65 jumps on your sabre. Here, hang on to this link. http://www.neckreference.com/anatomy.html You'll need it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
