Legal and Illegal Cliff Jumps at Lake Pow***

[base428 1]

Did you know that it's perfectly legal to jump from the cliffs of Lake Pow***?
Tip: Just make sure you don't use a parachute. The attached pics will show you what is LEGAL (an ad from a recent backcountry.com ad) and ILLEGAL (a base jump from a 220' cliff).

God Bless America....

Non-powered, non-polluting, non-intrusive, and harmless.......but still illegal?

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[The111 0]

I'm confused. Powers? Powwow? Powder?



But yes, it is ridiculous. Welcome to free country USA.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[LouYoung 0]

It's true. I've made many cliff jumps into Lake Powell without a parachute.

I was standing atop a 90 footer once and the lake patrol boat came out and parked to watch me. I don't know why, but I yelled down to ask them if they'd arrest me if I jumped. It's not like I could think of any reason it should be illegal, but I inherently distrust authority figures, so I figured they were waiting for me to do something wrong.

They replied that there's no rule against it, but that jumping off the cliff would be stupid and they advised against it.

I jumped, landed, climbed back up and jumped again.

They motored off without another word.

What would have happened if I took a bed sheet up there with me?

[QuickDraw 0]

You can just make out the name of the lake in the second photo.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[jalisco 0]

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You can just make out the name of the lake in the second photo.

Yes, but that's just the name of the lake into which the legal jump occurred...

[DexterBase 0]

Same story in Yosemite.

If there was a nice rock next to the Merced river, say a nice 80 footer with a deep swimming hole at the base, you could jump off all day and not be in any trouble.

If you put on a BASE rig and did a static line jump from the exact same spot and landed in the exact same swimming hole, suddenly you're guilty of illegal aerial delivery.

Now, even after you paid to enter the park, and were already legally standing inside the national park, you somehow "delivered yourself into the park by parachute."

I paid the admission into Yosemite, legally hiked to the summit of the big stone there, and parachuted to the valley floor. I was found guilty of illegal air delivery even though I never deliverd anything into the national park. My jump started after I was already inside the park.

If I would have jumped from the same spot without a parachute and somehow miraculously survived, I would have been in less trouble. Probably none at all.

More proof that the air delivery law is not based on any logic, other than "BASE jumpers are bad."

[nicknitro71 0]

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paid the admission into Yosemite, legally hiked to the summit of the big stone there, and parachuted to the valley floor. I was found guilty of illegal air delivery even though I never deliverd anything into the national park. My jump started after I was already inside the park.

Same here in 1996 but did not get cought

Any way here is the definition (again):

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AERIAL DELIVERY LAWS - DEFINITIONS
CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS
TITLE 36 - PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY
CHAPTER 1 - NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
PART 2--RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION

36 CFR 2.17 - Aircraft And Air Delivery
(a) The following are prohibited:
1. Operating or using aircraft on lands or water [...]
2. Where a water surface is designated pursuant to paragraph (a.1) of this section, operating or using aircraft under power on the water within 500 feet [...]
3. Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.

As Chad said we are not delivering anything that is not already there.

I don't understand how a good attorney is not able to have the charge dismissed.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[nicrussell 0]

I wonder what the ACLU thinks of this.

[The111 0]

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3. Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.

Hmm... so if a friend (I mean a "stranger") held a gun to your head at the exit point, handed you a BASE rig, and told you to jump, would that be considered an emergency situation? And as long as you don't press charges against him for threatening your life, he didn't do anything wrong...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[lawrocket 3]

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I don't understand how a good attorney is not able to have the charge dismissed.

I do...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[nicknitro71 0]

Do you mind to share...

Memento Audere Semper

903

[DexterBase 0]

Care to explain it to us?

[jalisco 0]

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...we are not delivering anything that is not already there.

Would this be true if you rode a helicopter which took off from and then landed in the park? After a 10 sec, 10ft flight? Perhaps the argument is that a canopy flight is like any other aircraft flight -- once you're in flight, you've effectively "left" the park...

On the other hand,

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...other airborne means...

apparently, we must always keep at least one apendage on the ground at all times.
"Chlidren?! No running or jumping in the park!! Go outside if you want to do that..."

[DexterBase 0]

My argument is that BASE jumping is not illegal in the National Parks. If it is, then they need to come out and say it.

If it isn't, then they need to put a system in place for us to get permits, and then they need to actually issue permits.

[460 0]

Perhaps we need a 3000 foot tether on us when we jump so that we don't officially leave the ground. Tethers seem rather impractical though.

How can we create an emergency relating to a serious property loss?

Actually, Dead Steve Morrell (RIP), got busted for aerial delivery and creating and maintaining a hazardous condition. I think the laws could easily be changed as needed to persecute backcountry parachutists.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[lawrocket 3]

There are several reasons why a good attorney would not be able to get this thing dismissed.

The first is the regulation. It references "delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute..." Just because you are in the park doesn't mean that a retrieval or a delivery does not happen. Try sending an e-mail to yourself. It is sent, delivered and retrieved to and from the same source. As written, the rule indicates that delivery (regardless of from where it was delivered) and retrievel (regardless of from where it was retrieved) is against the rule. It's that simple.

Second reason - history. Unfortunately, you've got a lot of BASE jumpers who have been charged and convicted of the same thing over and over under the same circumstances. This means that the court is going to do the same thing over and over until an appeals court says otherwise. Is Judge Best still operating that court? If so, you think he's gonna up and change his mind on you?

Third reason - ineffective arguments of defendants. I'll admit that when I see some examples of letters and requests made to Yosemite to jump there, I shake my head. Too many of these would make nice fluff in a lint trap. Ask Chuck Brown of Russel Webb on here about clients who say the judge wouldn't even listen to them when they tried talking. If it doesn't go to an element of the case, the court doesn't want to hear it.

This creates another problem, too. Counsel can't say much, either, because the judge has already made rulings, etc., in the past that make argument by counsel useless quite often.

Fourth problem - resources. Attorneys can't just show up in court and shoot from the hip. They need to learn the facts, the law, and prepare themselves thoroughly for court. This takes time. Lawyer time equals money. Give a lawyer $10k to defend you, you'll therefore have an attorney who can possibly get an acquittal.

Or, the attorney can prepare a brief getting the judge to overturn the Regulation on which the jumper is charged. That is rare, especially for a judge who has used it countless times to convict somebody. Then again, maybe he's been willing all along to overturn it, but nobody has ever bothered to ask.

Or, if the acquittal doesn't happen, then the attorney with the resources can go to the 9th Circuit and appeal it. But, he better have made all of those arguments to the trial court that he makes to the 9th. This also has a flip side - it IS the 9th Circuit, and they may construe it to ban rock climbing and all sorts of stuff while they're at it. "We therefore read the regulation as banning the delivery of all objects by air. This includes, if the park superintendent so desires, picking a leaf off of a tree and dropping it, or leaping from rock to rock across the Merced River."

Final point - "dismissal." I'll paraphrase Vinnie Gambini from My Cousin Vinnie - "Two ute-ful BASE jumpahs were seen with parachutes coming off of El Capitan and landin' in da meadow. Der is NO WAY dat dis is gettin' dismissed."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rpersi 0]

I will be renting a boat and vacationing at Lake Pow*** next month with the wife. I am guessing it would be a bad idea to bring a rig onto the boat in case I see something real nice?

I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who has done something at this lake which is pretty damn big on the map.

[87SupraT 0]

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It's true. I've made many cliff jumps into Lake Powell without a parachute.

I was standing atop a 90 footer once and the lake patrol boat came out and parked to watch me.

A 90 footer?! Wow, that is high, I take it the landing didn't hurt cause you did it again. How do you go about landing in water that high without hurting yourself. I have learned not to keep your arms out and wear shoes on 40+ cause if not it hurts. Care to share your technique to landing from that high? Thanks.

Dale

~Dale

[bertusgeert 1]

What if you cut before you splash?

---------------------------------------------
As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[QuickDraw 0]

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How can we create an emergency relating to a serious property loss?

Maybe if someone was 'stealing' your car ?

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[NickDG 23]

>>I am guessing it would be a bad idea to bring a rig onto the boat in case I see something real nice?<<

Bring gear . . .

When John Wesley Pow*** first discovered the area in 1869 he called it a, "Vertical desert." The erection of the Glenn Canyon Dam in 1956 changed that in some regard but with the recent drought (you'll see the bathtub ring right away) there are hundreds of places to jump.

It helps to have a smaller boat with you to traverse narrow slot canyons, and facilitate pick ups, but BASE jumping there is just like most places. Be stealthy loading your stuff onto the houseboat and certainly don’t mention jumping to any of the dockhands. When you realize how big Lake Pow*** is use that to your advantage, and pass up the first jumpable sites you see. In fact your necks will ache from going, "Look here, Oh my god, now look over there!"

Also keep in mind round BASE jumps are perfect here because of the water landings and if something happens it's much better to brush a wall with a round than slam into it with a square.

Bon Voyage!

NickD BASE 194

[TomAiello 25]

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I will be renting a boat and vacationing at Lake Pow*** next month with the wife. I am guessing it would be a bad idea to bring a rig onto the boat in case I see something real nice?

People have been busted there based on just having gear in their boat.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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There are several reasons why a good attorney would not be able to get this thing dismissed.

Rick H. (now head of the United States BASE Association and occasional reader of these forums) was able to beat the rap for Aerial Delivery some time in the way back, on behalf of himself and another jumper (Rick's a real lawyer, so he wasn't just some yahoo trying to defend himself in court). I haven't ever asked him details on how he did that, but perhaps he'll read this and chime in. Perhaps it's just that Rick is a better than good attorney, though.

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The first is the regulation. It references "delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute..." Just because you are in the park doesn't mean that a retrieval or a delivery does not happen.

Do you think this also applies to jumps made from the park, but landed outside the park boundary? I know of one case where jumpers were busted like that, and they plea bargained, so it never saw court.

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Final point - "dismissal."

Isn't that what the trial court decided in Oxx, though?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicknitro71 0]

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Do you think this also applies to jumps made from the park, but landed outside the park boundary? I know of one case where jumpers were busted like that, and they plea bargained, so it never saw court.

Are you suggetsing a WS jump?

Memento Audere Semper

903

[NickDG 23]

>>People have been busted there based on just having gear in their boat.<<

Tom's right and I should have mentioned that.

I've always thought at places like this we should jump as much as possible, even if it means someone gets caught once in awhile. Just make sure you are prepared as the consequences can be steep.

We owe that to Dennis who went to jail for months fighting to jump there.

The battle for legal BASE would suffer if the powers that be didn't see how important BASE is to so many people. If they didn't realize people are actively jumping the issue falls off their radar screens. And I don’t think we will ever win the battle using lawyers and the courts.

We, those jumping now, probably won't benefit from the ground work already laid. While those "new" to the fight might disagree, my real hope now is BASE will finally be fully accepted in the future and by a more enlightened generation of people.

I think in the long run we will win not from asking permission but by telling those who somehow think they have the right to regulate our lives to go F themselves over and over and over again . . .

NickD BASE 194