op5e 0 #51 July 16, 2005 I first would like to say congrats on your first BASE. I am way off doing mine, so im kinda jealous. Threads like this (female base jumpers doing new things) always make me think of Tom's thread linked below. Normally I think that the people argueing are jealous, most of the time both parties have some valid points. Life is what you make of it and life is too short to harp on the negatives. I have one question what is the average number of skydives for people who do the first jump course on this bridge? How many skydives does this mentor normally require, if any? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=297315;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #52 July 16, 2005 Holly.....read this post...follow this link....read...read...read.... or read this... #63 Lori Barr, July 23, 2002 Cliff Jump Norway Wall Strike (in freefall) Lori launched and lost stability on her first cliff jump. With five previous Perrine bridge jumps and the required amount of skydives Lori is on an organized BASE expedition to Norway. The trip included a site specific BASE jumping course taught by very competent instructors. However, Lori hit the cliff wall in freefall at about 11 seconds. What makes this fatality a little more chilling is the fact Lori did everything right as far as following the current advise on how to get into BASE jumping. She did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking.... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #53 July 16, 2005 Quote...and to think, I was scared to tell him about my first jump (which was a hand held three second delay...btw) Bet you should have been more worried about telling your BASE brothers and sisters, I am guessing you are about to get a internet kicking about starting with sod all experience in skydiving.................... seriously, 40 odd jumps is not ideal to do what you are doing................ I had 500 (with CRW and accuracy) when I went to that span for a FJC, and even then I knew I had a lot to learn about short canopy rides.......................... Hope your luck holds out............ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #54 July 16, 2005 Quote She did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking.... huh?!? take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard... this thread lacks any reason for your comments. Holly did NOT mention jumping anything but her local S. and she is being guided by someone with vasts more experience than yourself. it's just not possible to judge her fear level, how well it's controlled, or her preparation from the limited comments made. so why be so harsh? and why add the second post when she never responded to the first? yes I could make and post assumptions about you, but I'll refrain. it just seems so, well, rude. DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #55 July 16, 2005 QuoteShe did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking.... She did everything right and she died anyway. So does that mean she was simply unlucky or that the "current advise" [sic] is wrong? No matter how you look at it, Holly jumped a bridge not a cliff, so the two cases aren't comparable, unless your point has something to do with the "women in base" issue. More than the evolution of skydiving, the underlying philosophy here is beginning to remind me of what happened when the hippies grew up, got real jobs and had kids of their own. "It was okay for me, but it's not okay for you" and "I want you to learn from my mistakes" have never been very successful in preventing the behavior you don't want to see in the next generation. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #56 July 16, 2005 I really dont need to take a deep breath when i see something that is not right... and yes guided by someone who actually helped her with her experience level....thats not what you will find advise wise in this forum... Well anyone in there right mind should have a fear level ....control is based on experience..and in this endever of hers.. she has none... not being harsh...just the truth ... i responded to another post not hers if you looked.. not trying to be rude either...If i can influence someone to seek a better and safer path than great.. if someoen else is offended by that ...i can live with that.. if it will help someone else.... [;) They arent assumtions...Holly posts about her skydiving and base exposer and we have PM'ed briefly about these subjects. I was not being rude to her... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #57 July 16, 2005 No...it is more a case of rushing into something... 6 jumps and then Norway....i tend to think a bit over confident... Base to me seems about how good you are when all goes wrong not so much when all goes right... Anything is easy when everything goes right...but when all goes wrong..it's then that that experience that takes you to live another day.. Ask any pilot... when the shit hits the fan ...how you react is how good a pilot you are... again..i have been known to be wrong.... Nothing to do with woman. Look at Jill Salo in continuim 1 and 2. That is one solid incredible base jumper that makes it look so easy.... I probally would not have posted to much about her jump if she lived in Maine or Aruba. But she did it in a place she has access to some very experienced and good base jumpers who i know would think that that was not a great choice. I said "Choice" ... and yes.. i was a surfing hippy that grew up and had kids but still live for my passions. never tell my kids not ok unless they want to go out and surf Mavericks...Then i will instill my thoughts as well as try to get there brain working.... Its all in good fun...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base736 0 #58 July 16, 2005 QuoteI have seen a guy with over seven thousand skydives almost die on his first skysurf jump....... This anecdote goes to show (if number of skydives is a singularly important variable in readiness for skysurfing) that a person should wait until they've got more than seven thousand skydives before doing that first skysurf jump. You must be looking forward to your first skysurf in (if your profile is up to date) 6,400 skydives... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base736 0 #59 July 16, 2005 More importantly... Congratulations on your first jump. Be careful out there. BASE was something I was strictly forbidden from doing by my step-father, who skydived back when BASE was all skydiving gear and black death. So, when I headed out for a jump from a span while visiting back home, I opted not to invite him. Called home and told them about the jump after the fact, and he was upset that I hadn't invited him. "Yeah, I think it's a stupid thing to do," he said, "but if you're going to do it anyway I want to watch!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #60 July 16, 2005 i may have worded it in correctly as to making a point that if you have a lot of experience and things go wrong ..it's that experience that ..will or can help.... saved his ass as he said and yes when i had 400 or so jumps and he saw me with the board...he gave me a mouth full that i took to heart and has kept my ass still alive... i think and as he told me.. if he did not have the experience he had.. he said he would have definetly gone in.. i hope thats a little clearer...maybe not... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skinflicka 0 #61 July 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteShe did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking.... She did everything right and she died anyway. So does that mean she was simply unlucky or that the "current advise" [sic] is wrong? No matter how you look at it, Holly jumped a bridge not a cliff, so the two cases aren't comparable, unless your point has something to do with the "women in base" issue. More than the evolution of skydiving, the underlying philosophy here is beginning to remind me of what happened when the hippies grew up, got real jobs and had kids of their own. "It was okay for me, but it's not okay for you" and "I want you to learn from my mistakes" have never been very successful in preventing the behavior you don't want to see in the next generation. rl She prepared accoring to the accepted wisdom...she did not do everything right, unfortunately. You're just cranky cuz you're on the rag. $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #62 July 16, 2005 Quote...ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #63 July 16, 2005 QuoteQuote...ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility? Because at the time Skin made his post, he didn't know who the culprit was. And Le Roy's post didn't contain the information in the first draft; he added it in during the edit. By that time all that got done, the thread was already off and running. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skinflicka 0 #64 July 16, 2005 Sorry, Tom. I'm a dick. No new info there either. $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hollyhjb 0 #65 July 16, 2005 If you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives. This jump was very well planned out, in fact we waited three days for perfect conditions. There were life vests, rescue swimmers, and three very experienced jumpers coaching me. The delay was decided on because I was jumping a round and we didn't want to risk a random gust of wind (which happen all the time in Twin) blowing me over the land. I was just comfortable jumping the bridge because I have been around it for 18 years, and I go out there almost every day to watch jumpers. This jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon. Holly Joan ~edit to add comment~ Despite the general "that was not smart, Holly" topic in this thread, I actually really like what points have been brought up. I've heard it all before, but it's all important enough to be said again. I was never planning to do more than this base jump until after a lot of skydives. I know my canopy experience sucks, that's why I jumped a round into the water. Having so many experienced locals and hanging out with, and packing for, so many jumpers, and "over hearing" FJCs, I have gleaned a ton of great information. I made the decision to jump after taking in a lot. I've read "the list." I know what happens when things go wrong, and I'm involved in another dangerous sport (nascar). I felt ready to do one round jump off what is considered by many the best place to make a first jump."I reject your reality and substitute my own" ~Adam Savage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #66 July 16, 2005 QuoteIf you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives. Why even think about doing a jump from someone who does FDC..... This i dont understand... I see on the internet he has a huck doll...did you get one after you jumped?? yes i saw him on TV and seemed like a rodeo star...That should be your first natural reaction to be uneasy... i think that if my first AFF jumpmasters acted like yee hahs...i would not get on the plane... Planning.... well planning is great if you are experienced in what you are doing....if not ...you are just on for the ride... ask the Seals that never made it back from there recient mission in Afganistan, planning will not keep you alive only adjust the odds and even then there a thing call"screw the pooch" . I spent 3 years as a ranger in the military and i can tell you alot about planning ...99% of the time it goes wrong....it also make a big difference about who's doing the planning.... IE...idiots.... and you also have poor planning...like lettting someone with 40 some odd jumps jump off a bridge.... delay....well i wont even go there...I will leave that to someone with experience... Comfortable because you have been around it....what if you lived in the swiss valley....would that make you comfortable to go with 40 jumps and jump there..? teaser.....watching base videos is a teaser....what you did was not smart.... And for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer...2 they malfuction allot... and you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant..... Ok, you race cars...you can relate then to someone with an hour of race experience going to Daytona to race the 500....It wouldnt be smart besides if they even would have lived threw it... And..yeas you can take with you all that you have experienced in life....thats what life is about... Stay safe and .....slow down....... All the best you nut...... Chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #67 July 17, 2005 Quoteis it that the beginner jumps I see on tape are from aussie land where objects are usually quite low (bridges below 200 feet), so low skilled jumpers shouldnt free fall them or is it different teaching techniques of different mentors ? The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. We tend to just keep the extra altitude as a safety margin, with the understanding that a quicker deployed canopy has less time for the students possibly bad body position to screw things up. Unless the object is high enough to track, I'm pretty convinced that a PCA is a better first jump regardless of altitude.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #68 July 17, 2005 Quote The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #69 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuote The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed? If I recall your details correctly, yes. The Apex BASE courses have been doing PCA's for first jumps--isn't that who you took your course from? When I learned, the "standard" was a 2 second, hand held slider down jump.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #70 July 17, 2005 yes it was with CR, and my and others first jumps were 3 secs hand held freefall, one guy on my course consistantly turned 180 head low in freefall before he pitched.......... - he was a good advert for the PCA! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wwarped 0 #71 July 17, 2005 QuoteThis jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon. Holly Joan, congrats on the jump! and I'm happy your father took it well... too bad I missed you when I was up at the potato bridge. I did meet a fellow death camp survivor. he actually likened the event to a well executed stunt (a la fear factor...). his teacher had even forewarned him that he was NOT prepared to BASE. but he loved his experience. went to the dz for training, and then took a real BASE course. now I won't recommend this path, but you have access to lot's of friendly, knowledgeable people. just continue using this resource to lower your otherwise elevated risk! DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #72 July 17, 2005 I have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for ... if the studident has total brain lock and does not throw his pilot chute..?? I.E.... brain lock... ground rush... sensory overlaod..... I have seen AFF students do this as well as a Navy Seal climb back into the plane from a Cesna 172 on his first static line jump ....No sh%^$T.. I was hanging from the side to video him and could not beleive my eyes as this bad boy climbed back in. And he was hanging from the strut with his feet flying in the wind. When he got to the ground he only remembered that something in his head said no way....and he froze in panic....i think he said the ground at 4000 ft looked like 500 ft or something.. It can happen to anybody...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #73 July 17, 2005 QuoteAnd for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer... Not true, they do have steerable rounds in the military, -1B, -1C, SF10-A... at least in my unit... And also though you can't steer a round... you can Slip a T-10 in a general direction Quote2 they malfuction allot... Actually They malfuntion alot less than Squares... I heard a few riggers say it has over a 99% chance of working... Quoteand you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant..... agreed... ADDED: in no way am I condoning what this individual did...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #74 July 17, 2005 i was talking about a t-10 and that was over 20 years ago for me...we use to pump the risers to try to manuver them with a rucsack hanging and your wepon strapped to your leg... ..if it did release... you just wabbeled around... trying not to land on top of each other. We had 6 malfuctions in my airborne class...i forget the broken legs and backs but none where walking fo a long time and 3 got discharged. My Halo school got canceled as a butter bar went in on jump # 4 i think it was.... During my tour i think i can remember at least 2 or so every deployment that went bad...They evn had a guy on a deployment to Alaska who streamered in and lived....allot of snow i think it was that saved his ass... All i remember that i hated when they were below 1000 ft and the idiot jumpmaster put us out after or before the intended dropzone...Thank god i was very young and stupid to make it threw that in one piece... What unit where you in? In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #75 July 17, 2005 QuoteI have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for In the words of Dennis McGlynn, so that "the parachute is out before your bad body position has time to screw things up." Many students have problems with exit stability. A PCA (or other quick deployment method) gets a canopy before the student can go head low, head high, off axis, or tumble (or at least before they can do much of it). In general, you want the student to make a couple PCA's and demonstrate a good, stable exit before you put them off for a free fall.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 0 Go To Topic Listing
base736 0 #59 July 16, 2005 More importantly... Congratulations on your first jump. Be careful out there. BASE was something I was strictly forbidden from doing by my step-father, who skydived back when BASE was all skydiving gear and black death. So, when I headed out for a jump from a span while visiting back home, I opted not to invite him. Called home and told them about the jump after the fact, and he was upset that I hadn't invited him. "Yeah, I think it's a stupid thing to do," he said, "but if you're going to do it anyway I want to watch!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #60 July 16, 2005 i may have worded it in correctly as to making a point that if you have a lot of experience and things go wrong ..it's that experience that ..will or can help.... saved his ass as he said and yes when i had 400 or so jumps and he saw me with the board...he gave me a mouth full that i took to heart and has kept my ass still alive... i think and as he told me.. if he did not have the experience he had.. he said he would have definetly gone in.. i hope thats a little clearer...maybe not... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skinflicka 0 #61 July 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteShe did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking.... She did everything right and she died anyway. So does that mean she was simply unlucky or that the "current advise" [sic] is wrong? No matter how you look at it, Holly jumped a bridge not a cliff, so the two cases aren't comparable, unless your point has something to do with the "women in base" issue. More than the evolution of skydiving, the underlying philosophy here is beginning to remind me of what happened when the hippies grew up, got real jobs and had kids of their own. "It was okay for me, but it's not okay for you" and "I want you to learn from my mistakes" have never been very successful in preventing the behavior you don't want to see in the next generation. rl She prepared accoring to the accepted wisdom...she did not do everything right, unfortunately. You're just cranky cuz you're on the rag. $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #62 July 16, 2005 Quote...ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #63 July 16, 2005 QuoteQuote...ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility? Because at the time Skin made his post, he didn't know who the culprit was. And Le Roy's post didn't contain the information in the first draft; he added it in during the edit. By that time all that got done, the thread was already off and running. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skinflicka 0 #64 July 16, 2005 Sorry, Tom. I'm a dick. No new info there either. $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hollyhjb 0 #65 July 16, 2005 If you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives. This jump was very well planned out, in fact we waited three days for perfect conditions. There were life vests, rescue swimmers, and three very experienced jumpers coaching me. The delay was decided on because I was jumping a round and we didn't want to risk a random gust of wind (which happen all the time in Twin) blowing me over the land. I was just comfortable jumping the bridge because I have been around it for 18 years, and I go out there almost every day to watch jumpers. This jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon. Holly Joan ~edit to add comment~ Despite the general "that was not smart, Holly" topic in this thread, I actually really like what points have been brought up. I've heard it all before, but it's all important enough to be said again. I was never planning to do more than this base jump until after a lot of skydives. I know my canopy experience sucks, that's why I jumped a round into the water. Having so many experienced locals and hanging out with, and packing for, so many jumpers, and "over hearing" FJCs, I have gleaned a ton of great information. I made the decision to jump after taking in a lot. I've read "the list." I know what happens when things go wrong, and I'm involved in another dangerous sport (nascar). I felt ready to do one round jump off what is considered by many the best place to make a first jump."I reject your reality and substitute my own" ~Adam Savage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #66 July 16, 2005 QuoteIf you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives. Why even think about doing a jump from someone who does FDC..... This i dont understand... I see on the internet he has a huck doll...did you get one after you jumped?? yes i saw him on TV and seemed like a rodeo star...That should be your first natural reaction to be uneasy... i think that if my first AFF jumpmasters acted like yee hahs...i would not get on the plane... Planning.... well planning is great if you are experienced in what you are doing....if not ...you are just on for the ride... ask the Seals that never made it back from there recient mission in Afganistan, planning will not keep you alive only adjust the odds and even then there a thing call"screw the pooch" . I spent 3 years as a ranger in the military and i can tell you alot about planning ...99% of the time it goes wrong....it also make a big difference about who's doing the planning.... IE...idiots.... and you also have poor planning...like lettting someone with 40 some odd jumps jump off a bridge.... delay....well i wont even go there...I will leave that to someone with experience... Comfortable because you have been around it....what if you lived in the swiss valley....would that make you comfortable to go with 40 jumps and jump there..? teaser.....watching base videos is a teaser....what you did was not smart.... And for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer...2 they malfuction allot... and you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant..... Ok, you race cars...you can relate then to someone with an hour of race experience going to Daytona to race the 500....It wouldnt be smart besides if they even would have lived threw it... And..yeas you can take with you all that you have experienced in life....thats what life is about... Stay safe and .....slow down....... All the best you nut...... Chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #67 July 17, 2005 Quoteis it that the beginner jumps I see on tape are from aussie land where objects are usually quite low (bridges below 200 feet), so low skilled jumpers shouldnt free fall them or is it different teaching techniques of different mentors ? The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. We tend to just keep the extra altitude as a safety margin, with the understanding that a quicker deployed canopy has less time for the students possibly bad body position to screw things up. Unless the object is high enough to track, I'm pretty convinced that a PCA is a better first jump regardless of altitude.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #68 July 17, 2005 Quote The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #69 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuote The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed? If I recall your details correctly, yes. The Apex BASE courses have been doing PCA's for first jumps--isn't that who you took your course from? When I learned, the "standard" was a 2 second, hand held slider down jump.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #70 July 17, 2005 yes it was with CR, and my and others first jumps were 3 secs hand held freefall, one guy on my course consistantly turned 180 head low in freefall before he pitched.......... - he was a good advert for the PCA! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wwarped 0 #71 July 17, 2005 QuoteThis jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon. Holly Joan, congrats on the jump! and I'm happy your father took it well... too bad I missed you when I was up at the potato bridge. I did meet a fellow death camp survivor. he actually likened the event to a well executed stunt (a la fear factor...). his teacher had even forewarned him that he was NOT prepared to BASE. but he loved his experience. went to the dz for training, and then took a real BASE course. now I won't recommend this path, but you have access to lot's of friendly, knowledgeable people. just continue using this resource to lower your otherwise elevated risk! DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #72 July 17, 2005 I have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for ... if the studident has total brain lock and does not throw his pilot chute..?? I.E.... brain lock... ground rush... sensory overlaod..... I have seen AFF students do this as well as a Navy Seal climb back into the plane from a Cesna 172 on his first static line jump ....No sh%^$T.. I was hanging from the side to video him and could not beleive my eyes as this bad boy climbed back in. And he was hanging from the strut with his feet flying in the wind. When he got to the ground he only remembered that something in his head said no way....and he froze in panic....i think he said the ground at 4000 ft looked like 500 ft or something.. It can happen to anybody...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #73 July 17, 2005 QuoteAnd for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer... Not true, they do have steerable rounds in the military, -1B, -1C, SF10-A... at least in my unit... And also though you can't steer a round... you can Slip a T-10 in a general direction Quote2 they malfuction allot... Actually They malfuntion alot less than Squares... I heard a few riggers say it has over a 99% chance of working... Quoteand you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant..... agreed... ADDED: in no way am I condoning what this individual did...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vandev 0 #74 July 17, 2005 i was talking about a t-10 and that was over 20 years ago for me...we use to pump the risers to try to manuver them with a rucsack hanging and your wepon strapped to your leg... ..if it did release... you just wabbeled around... trying not to land on top of each other. We had 6 malfuctions in my airborne class...i forget the broken legs and backs but none where walking fo a long time and 3 got discharged. My Halo school got canceled as a butter bar went in on jump # 4 i think it was.... During my tour i think i can remember at least 2 or so every deployment that went bad...They evn had a guy on a deployment to Alaska who streamered in and lived....allot of snow i think it was that saved his ass... All i remember that i hated when they were below 1000 ft and the idiot jumpmaster put us out after or before the intended dropzone...Thank god i was very young and stupid to make it threw that in one piece... What unit where you in? In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #75 July 17, 2005 QuoteI have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for In the words of Dennis McGlynn, so that "the parachute is out before your bad body position has time to screw things up." Many students have problems with exit stability. A PCA (or other quick deployment method) gets a canopy before the student can go head low, head high, off axis, or tumble (or at least before they can do much of it). In general, you want the student to make a couple PCA's and demonstrate a good, stable exit before you put them off for a free fall.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 0
vandev 0 #60 July 16, 2005 i may have worded it in correctly as to making a point that if you have a lot of experience and things go wrong ..it's that experience that ..will or can help.... saved his ass as he said and yes when i had 400 or so jumps and he saw me with the board...he gave me a mouth full that i took to heart and has kept my ass still alive... i think and as he told me.. if he did not have the experience he had.. he said he would have definetly gone in.. i hope thats a little clearer...maybe not... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinflicka 0 #61 July 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteShe did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking.... She did everything right and she died anyway. So does that mean she was simply unlucky or that the "current advise" [sic] is wrong? No matter how you look at it, Holly jumped a bridge not a cliff, so the two cases aren't comparable, unless your point has something to do with the "women in base" issue. More than the evolution of skydiving, the underlying philosophy here is beginning to remind me of what happened when the hippies grew up, got real jobs and had kids of their own. "It was okay for me, but it's not okay for you" and "I want you to learn from my mistakes" have never been very successful in preventing the behavior you don't want to see in the next generation. rl She prepared accoring to the accepted wisdom...she did not do everything right, unfortunately. You're just cranky cuz you're on the rag. $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #62 July 16, 2005 Quote...ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #63 July 16, 2005 QuoteQuote...ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility? Because at the time Skin made his post, he didn't know who the culprit was. And Le Roy's post didn't contain the information in the first draft; he added it in during the edit. By that time all that got done, the thread was already off and running. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinflicka 0 #64 July 16, 2005 Sorry, Tom. I'm a dick. No new info there either. $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hollyhjb 0 #65 July 16, 2005 If you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives. This jump was very well planned out, in fact we waited three days for perfect conditions. There were life vests, rescue swimmers, and three very experienced jumpers coaching me. The delay was decided on because I was jumping a round and we didn't want to risk a random gust of wind (which happen all the time in Twin) blowing me over the land. I was just comfortable jumping the bridge because I have been around it for 18 years, and I go out there almost every day to watch jumpers. This jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon. Holly Joan ~edit to add comment~ Despite the general "that was not smart, Holly" topic in this thread, I actually really like what points have been brought up. I've heard it all before, but it's all important enough to be said again. I was never planning to do more than this base jump until after a lot of skydives. I know my canopy experience sucks, that's why I jumped a round into the water. Having so many experienced locals and hanging out with, and packing for, so many jumpers, and "over hearing" FJCs, I have gleaned a ton of great information. I made the decision to jump after taking in a lot. I've read "the list." I know what happens when things go wrong, and I'm involved in another dangerous sport (nascar). I felt ready to do one round jump off what is considered by many the best place to make a first jump."I reject your reality and substitute my own" ~Adam Savage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #66 July 16, 2005 QuoteIf you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives. Why even think about doing a jump from someone who does FDC..... This i dont understand... I see on the internet he has a huck doll...did you get one after you jumped?? yes i saw him on TV and seemed like a rodeo star...That should be your first natural reaction to be uneasy... i think that if my first AFF jumpmasters acted like yee hahs...i would not get on the plane... Planning.... well planning is great if you are experienced in what you are doing....if not ...you are just on for the ride... ask the Seals that never made it back from there recient mission in Afganistan, planning will not keep you alive only adjust the odds and even then there a thing call"screw the pooch" . I spent 3 years as a ranger in the military and i can tell you alot about planning ...99% of the time it goes wrong....it also make a big difference about who's doing the planning.... IE...idiots.... and you also have poor planning...like lettting someone with 40 some odd jumps jump off a bridge.... delay....well i wont even go there...I will leave that to someone with experience... Comfortable because you have been around it....what if you lived in the swiss valley....would that make you comfortable to go with 40 jumps and jump there..? teaser.....watching base videos is a teaser....what you did was not smart.... And for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer...2 they malfuction allot... and you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant..... Ok, you race cars...you can relate then to someone with an hour of race experience going to Daytona to race the 500....It wouldnt be smart besides if they even would have lived threw it... And..yeas you can take with you all that you have experienced in life....thats what life is about... Stay safe and .....slow down....... All the best you nut...... Chris In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #67 July 17, 2005 Quoteis it that the beginner jumps I see on tape are from aussie land where objects are usually quite low (bridges below 200 feet), so low skilled jumpers shouldnt free fall them or is it different teaching techniques of different mentors ? The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. We tend to just keep the extra altitude as a safety margin, with the understanding that a quicker deployed canopy has less time for the students possibly bad body position to screw things up. Unless the object is high enough to track, I'm pretty convinced that a PCA is a better first jump regardless of altitude.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #68 July 17, 2005 Quote The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #69 July 17, 2005 QuoteQuote The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed? If I recall your details correctly, yes. The Apex BASE courses have been doing PCA's for first jumps--isn't that who you took your course from? When I learned, the "standard" was a 2 second, hand held slider down jump.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #70 July 17, 2005 yes it was with CR, and my and others first jumps were 3 secs hand held freefall, one guy on my course consistantly turned 180 head low in freefall before he pitched.......... - he was a good advert for the PCA! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #71 July 17, 2005 QuoteThis jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon. Holly Joan, congrats on the jump! and I'm happy your father took it well... too bad I missed you when I was up at the potato bridge. I did meet a fellow death camp survivor. he actually likened the event to a well executed stunt (a la fear factor...). his teacher had even forewarned him that he was NOT prepared to BASE. but he loved his experience. went to the dz for training, and then took a real BASE course. now I won't recommend this path, but you have access to lot's of friendly, knowledgeable people. just continue using this resource to lower your otherwise elevated risk! DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #72 July 17, 2005 I have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for ... if the studident has total brain lock and does not throw his pilot chute..?? I.E.... brain lock... ground rush... sensory overlaod..... I have seen AFF students do this as well as a Navy Seal climb back into the plane from a Cesna 172 on his first static line jump ....No sh%^$T.. I was hanging from the side to video him and could not beleive my eyes as this bad boy climbed back in. And he was hanging from the strut with his feet flying in the wind. When he got to the ground he only remembered that something in his head said no way....and he froze in panic....i think he said the ground at 4000 ft looked like 500 ft or something.. It can happen to anybody...... In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #73 July 17, 2005 QuoteAnd for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer... Not true, they do have steerable rounds in the military, -1B, -1C, SF10-A... at least in my unit... And also though you can't steer a round... you can Slip a T-10 in a general direction Quote2 they malfuction allot... Actually They malfuntion alot less than Squares... I heard a few riggers say it has over a 99% chance of working... Quoteand you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant..... agreed... ADDED: in no way am I condoning what this individual did...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vandev 0 #74 July 17, 2005 i was talking about a t-10 and that was over 20 years ago for me...we use to pump the risers to try to manuver them with a rucsack hanging and your wepon strapped to your leg... ..if it did release... you just wabbeled around... trying not to land on top of each other. We had 6 malfuctions in my airborne class...i forget the broken legs and backs but none where walking fo a long time and 3 got discharged. My Halo school got canceled as a butter bar went in on jump # 4 i think it was.... During my tour i think i can remember at least 2 or so every deployment that went bad...They evn had a guy on a deployment to Alaska who streamered in and lived....allot of snow i think it was that saved his ass... All i remember that i hated when they were below 1000 ft and the idiot jumpmaster put us out after or before the intended dropzone...Thank god i was very young and stupid to make it threw that in one piece... What unit where you in? In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #75 July 17, 2005 QuoteI have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for In the words of Dennis McGlynn, so that "the parachute is out before your bad body position has time to screw things up." Many students have problems with exit stability. A PCA (or other quick deployment method) gets a canopy before the student can go head low, head high, off axis, or tumble (or at least before they can do much of it). In general, you want the student to make a couple PCA's and demonstrate a good, stable exit before you put them off for a free fall.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
