Accident - Last Night?

[base587 0]

That struck me as well seeing one of those reports.

Our small group was made up of very different personalities but we all adhered to a BASE ethic that kept us under the radar, both in Calgary and Alberta as a whole.

Good luck with the fallout guys

[fenceline 0]

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CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
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A 42 year old man from Golden, British Columbia, has been charged in connection with the property damage incurred as a result of his base jump from the ****** ***** building on March 31, 2005.

After leaping from the southwest corner of the building located at ### # Street SW, a wind gust blew him into a window on the 24th floor, causing it to break. He then continued his flight and landed on top of the 5th storey glass dome walkway, smashing several other panes of glass. Total damage is estimated at $10,000.00. As a result of his fall he suffered non-life threatening injuries, and remains
in hospital at this time.

7 Fire units, including the CFD High Angle Rescue team, 3 EMS units and 7 CPS units were utilized during the rescue of the base jumper.

Scott ******* has been charged with Mischief to Property over $5,000.00, as well as Mischief Causing Danger to Life. He is due to appear in court in Calgary on May 31, 2005.

(For the non-Canadians, the charges are criminal code offences)

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

(For the non-Canadians, the charges are criminal code offences.)

What the Americans would call misdemeaners. The fine will likely be relatively small, but he will be permanently inadmissable to the US.

[Treejumps 0]

Hi Ray,

You hit the nail on the head. The real story that all of the media types are missing is how Scott came to find himself in this spot in the first place. How can the media miss the many posts Scott made on this board and the PG pilots board about how great a "teacher" Miles is and how easy they both think base is. Rememember Scott, base is so easy a bag of dogfood can do it. The fact that Scott was out SOLOING A BUILDING demonstrates Miles' so called teaching.

This was not an accident. This was the predictable outcome of teaching BASE to those without the proper and accepted prerequisites. This is what happens when those driven by ego and the desire to earn a few bucks while feeling and looking cool, shrug off all accpeted base ethics. There were many, many very experienced jumpers who told Miles this was bad, and look how quickly that has played out.

This is incredibly bad and avoidable PR for BASE, and we can all thank Miles D, and Redbull for it. Without Redbull's stipend Miles might have to actually get a job, and perhaps would not feel so cavalier. I hope that Redbull will now realize that they must select thier sponsored athletes more carefully, as Miles has put them at legal risk with this. Who are the deep pockets to go after for the emotionally traumitzed janitor who was in the atrium cleaning when Scott crahsed in, covering him with shards of glass? Redbull. Who subsidized Scott's training with Miles? Redbull. Who pushes their sposored athletes with an attitude of "any publicity is good publicity"? Redbull. Who uses BASE for its own furtherment with no regard for the sport or its participants? Redbull.

So now Miles, you have proven exactly what we told you would happen. You should not "market" BASE to anyone, let alone those without proper prerequisites. You clearly did not teach Scott correctly, or this would never had happened. I really hate to see base accidents, I've had them myself, and know all to well that shit happens. But in this case it was not just shit happening. This was an untrained, unsupervised whuffo in so far over his head that he could not of possibly understood what he was doing, and the facts bare that out.

While I sincerely doubt there will be many PG pilots lining up to train with Miles, I will bring many copies of the newspaper reports on this with me to TF in May, and sharing them with any of his would be PG students.

We'll see what happens once this real story gets out. The fun is just beginning.

[base736 0]

Scott is going to have his fair share of detractors, I'm sure, and God knows I was one of them at one point. Nobody will argue the fact that inexperience might have played an important role in this incident. But each of us takes his own path into the sport, and Scott has followed his. Red Bull is not to blame. Miles is not to blame. And pointing out that you saw this coming sure as hell isn't going to improve matters.

[NickDG 23]

>> How can the media miss the many posts Scott made on this board and the PG pilots board about how great a "teacher" Miles is and how easy they both think base is <<

While your causes in this incident sound probable, you are giving the media too much credit. There is no way they are capable of seeing the difference between the injured jumper, Miles, or any other BASE jumper. The idea some jumpers are "better" than others goes right over their heads. BASE jumping to them is nuts, therefore we are "all" nuts too.

Reporters work on deadlines and usually can't, or won't, take the time to educate themselves. Reporters I talk to now, ask the same silly questions, and draw the same conclusions as reporters I talked to twenty years ago. It seems like nothing in this area has changed. I know how to explain BASE in a positive way to reporters. But, they only hear what they want, and only write the things that fit their pre-conceived notions.

I once thought, years ago, we should have a mechanism in place so when a BASE accident occurs a press release is issued. These press releases, after a few years, would begin to hammer home the point that BASE is a sport and accidents do happen. Maybe it's time for something like that now. These press releases could also be issued when good stuff happens.

Many reporters are lazy, or just too busy, so well written and balanced BASE press releases have a very good chance of being run almost verbatim.

I mean we can write about us, or we can let them write about us . . .

NickD BASE 194

[RhondaLea 3]

Sometimes, Tree, shit just happens.

Scott isn't the first person who has been in this situation, and he won't be the last. And if you look at The List, there is no more correlation between "doing it right" and evading disaster than there is "time in sport" or "number of jumps" or anything else you might want to point to as a factor. In fact, there are more than a couple people walking around hale, hearty and whole whose imminent deaths were predicted by many, and many others who are somehow dead when it was impossible that they should ever die.

Miles may or may not be doing the right thing, but this isn't the incident that proves it one way or another.

Heal fast and well, Scott.

rl

[GaryP 0]

I heard it was the "gust of wind" that's to blame....

...Damn that gust - always pushing us back into the objects - always lurking

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[Treejumps 0]

It does not matter that I saw it coming, but it does matter that a significant number of experienced jumpers saw this coming, said it was a bad idea, and that the few can and will fuck it up for the many.

It is my opinion and I am free to share it. Many others agree but choose not to speak about it.

Miles' attitude is poor, and Redbull is part of that. (I'm a cool sponsored jumper, I'l do whatever I want you can't tell me what to do) Scott has demonstrated a very poor approach to BASE, and since Miles is his paid instructor, I fail to undertand how that is not relevant.

Scott does not appear to have followed a path to BASE, rather he has tried to blaze his own trail under the tutelege of Miles. Its a hard sport to try to make your own way or do the hard (stupid) way. The hard way has been figured out by those who came before us, and we benefit from their trial and errors. That is why there are reccomemded prerequisites by all of the established and reputable first jump courses. I doubt you will ever see BR, CR, Vertigo, or Morpheus teaching non skydivers, and for a good reason.

It is very shortsighted to attempt to get into base without skyding, given what is common knowledge today. Whether Scott took the shortcut because of bravado, ego, or just becasue there was that one person telling him it was OK, I don't know. He will, however, serve as an example of what not to do for some time and at least he wasn't another statistic.

[K763 0]

Hey Ray...

I can always count on you to chime in with the perfect scarcastic remark...have you seen Miles' ad in skydiving?

:)
K

[AirCanada 0]

... this is getting ridiculous.

QUOTE-“You clearly did not teach Scott correctly, or this would never had happened. I really hate to see base accidents, I've had them myself, and know all to well that shit happens.”-END QUOTE

Huh? This is a logical paradox. If Scott had been taught correctly this would never have happened? Yet you have had BASE accidents... so, were you not taught correctly? Or perhaps it is possible to have a BASE accident, AND have been taught correctly?

An accident has occurred, and there are quite likely things to be learned from it, both from the technical details of dealing with the off heading, to greater questions of proper preparation, training, background, psychological preparedness etc. for a jump.

However, this doesn’t say anything about Miles, Redbull (Redbull? How did Redbull come into this anyway? Janitor suing them for emotional disturbance? Maybe things have gotten this ridiculous in the US, but up here a judge would fine YOU for making his head hurt trying to figure out how you came up with this.) or the validity of skydiving vs. paragliding backgrounds.

Scott did not “blaze his own trail”, into BASE, he just didn’t come from your background. Last I checked, Scott had racked up 50 or freefalls to terminal from his paraglider... sounds like someone getting some training time to me.
This doesn’t indicate that “Scott has demonstrated a very poor approach to BASE”... it just indicates that he has had an accident... with undoubtedly things to learn from that.

Deciding that PG’s pilots with little skydiving experience have a “very poor approach to BASE” on the strength of one accident is silly. By that reasoning, skydiver’s and BASE jumpers have an exceptionally poor approach to BASE, as they appear to be having plenty of their own accidents.

I, for one, am very interested to hear Scott’s own analysis of this. I’m sure that there are things that everyone can learn from this.

Josh Briggs
Canmore AB, CANADA
5 basejumps, 3 skydives, Lots of paraglider time.

[leroydb 0]

To add to this, Can we wait till the individual in question decides to talk about what happened?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Skydawg 0]

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You clearly did not teach Scott correctly, or this would never had happened. I really hate to see base accidents, I've had them myself, and know all to well that shit happens.

Yep, Sh(t does happen, we've all had off-headings, be it from a dropped shoulder or whatever... What makes this any different?

[Zennie 0]

OK there's an awful lot to digest here, but I'm going to throw in my $0.02 ... which I think is a little over 1 pence or 22 pesos last time I checked the exchange rates.

As far as Miles goes, I've met Miles and he seems like a genuinely good guy who's fun to be around. My main beefs were with the choices he and others made which many of us felt was drawing negative publicity to the Potato bridge and endangering access for other jumpers. By all reports that no longer seems to be an issue, so as far as I'm concerned that's water under the (Potato) bridge. I'm looking forward to meeting Miles again and making some jumps with him out there.

I *do* still have a beef with Red Bull. I have boycotted them and will continue to do so as long as their corporate mentality of "Any publicity is good publicity" remains. That said, I think blaming Red Bull for this particular incident is a bit of a stretch.

The main issue here, I think, is whether it's a good idea to teach someone with little or no skydiving experience to BASE jump.

Can a person learn to race Indy cars having never made their way up the smaller racing circuits first? I suppose so, if they took it slow and listened to the advice of accomplished Indy car drivers. Would most Indy car drivers think this is a good idea? I seriously doubt it.

Can a person learn how to BASE jump with no prior skydiving experience? Well, it has been done (I believe by Nick Feteris or Richie Stein... veterans help me out here ), so yes it's do-able. Is this a very good idea? I think most BASE jumpers would agree that it is not.

Yes skydiving and BASE are totally different sports. The only thing we really share in common is a parachute. Still, there are important skills, such as canopy control and body awareness, that skydiving teaches which will help us be better, safer, BASE jumpers. These are skills learned over several hundred jumps, not just a few.

Now, was Scott's lack of skydiving experience a factor here? It's really hard to say not having been there. I can't necessarily fault him for soloing a B, since I've done it myself. However, those were Bs very familiar to me, I never soloed unless the wind conditions were perfect and I had "virtual ground crew" via telephone.

Just from what I've read here, it appears that the wind conditions were less than optimal, at least on the side that he chose to jump from. Would more skydiving experience have made an impact? Maybe, maybe not... at least as far as how his canopy flight choices and responses go. Again, I wasn't there so it's really hard to say.

Would having an experienced BASE jumper around to assess the situation have made a difference? This seems more likely, though again, it's hard to say not having been there.

This could be a simple matter of all the correct decisions being made, but S$%^ happened, or it could be a situation of someone with far too little experience getting in way over their head. Hard to say at this juncture.

Obviously something went wrong, and when something goes wrong there are lessons to be learned. I'd like to hear Scott's story and maybe we can all piece together the lessons to help others in the future.

This is how we've gotten to where we are, and it is how we will continue to evolve and hopefully all be better, more knowledgable jumpers in the future.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[RayLosli 11]

Hey Ray...
I can always count on you to chime in with the perfect sarcastic remark...have you seen Miles' ad in skydiving?
:) K
...................................

Strange that you mention that Karen. Why, Yes I did.
Well I might as well chime in with some more remarks, observations and possible Sarcasm.
There were Four different BASE advertisements in this months Skydiving.
The add :
Join the Pro's in the Circus. ...with the world's greatest BASE Jumper.
I thought it was very flamboyant, colorful. A Bold advertisement for BASE instruction.
Quite different from the, Asylum, Apex BASE or Morpheus Technologies adds
that were in Skydiving. It was nothing to out of the ordinary of all other advertisement that
was taken out by others in Skydiving as a whole.

I am self employed and have a small business and I got to say that an add taken
out and displayed to the public reflects much about the Owner and there personality.
I thumbed through Skydiving Mag. this months issue and looked at each one to
get a feel of what kind of add & First Impression that I get & what catches my eye.

Miles Daisher - Join the Pro's in the Circus. ...with the world's greatest BASE Jumper.
Asylum designs - Commit Yourself
Apex BASE - Everything BASE
Morpheus Technologies - Go the distance

What is each add trying to say ? What does is that business owner trying to reflect
to the public ?
Is, Join the Pro's in the Circus ...with the world's greatest BASE Jumper. going to draw
a different kind of Personality or Skill Level or Recklessness to that BASE instruction ?

What responsibility does a, single BASE Instructor or Base Instruction course have
Before of After that person leaves and walks away from it's instruction ?

Jumpers go back to His or her own Base Environment. They Make decisions, Make jumps
Make mistakes and sometimes get maimed or killed.
Was Scott suppose to be BASE Jumping ? Apparently YES. He went through a
BASE course, Looked @ an object, Packed his own Container, Stood on top of a building
and made the decision to Exit.

Karen : I would be interested in hearing your opinions on this.

Tree : Miles is probably a nice guy and is good @ what he does, but
No one Ever can See It Coming & Everybody Blazes there Own Trail into BASE.
Red Bull has nothing to do with it. Miles D. has nothing to do with Scotts accident.
Other that he should have never given a BASE jump course to him in the beginning solely
on the grounds that he did not have the experience back himself up.

Mr. Air Canada :Josh Briggs
Canmore AB, CANADA
5 basejumps, 3 skydives, Lots of paraglider time. :
Your Post Caught my eye. After reading your Post I am sure you are a nice guy & good @ what
you do but I am going to say this as nice as I know how.
You do not know your Ass from a Hole in the Ground when it comes to BASE, BASE instruction
& Especially the desired amount of MINIMAL SKILLS to approach BASE.
You do not have the acquired BASE skills to back your mouth up. Yet.

Now Listen Up: I do not want to be, Captain Blatantly Obvious.
I will explain this as nice as possible to everyone that has a brain & let everyone on this, Well Known Fact.
Paragliding, Skydiving & BASE Jumping are Three Different Disciplines & the only thing they have
in common is a fucking piece of Nylon that is Inflated over you head to STOP you from Dying
when you are achieving the rewards of the Discipline that you are doing @ that moment.
also: Anyone who does not know this is a fucking Moron & should Never attempt to do any of these
Disciplines with out the proper instruction and guidance.

All BASE jumpers BLAZE there Own Path. BASE jumpers will Jump & thing will go Wrong
& BASE jumpers will continue to HIT things.
the most Sorry-Ass Excuse I know that you can tell yourself is, ...Shit Just Happens.
.
.

[RhondaLea 3]

Quote

the most Sorry-Ass Excuse I know that you can tell yourself is, ...Shit Just Happens.

But it does.

Not all consequences are foreseeable. Failure analysis may prevent repeats, but there will always be more than one way to fuck up the same exact jump.

Which is why it is not only knuckleheads who die untimely deaths.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Skinflicka 0]

Quote

Not all consequences are foreseeable. Failure analysis may prevent repeats, but there will always be more than one way to fuck up the same exact jump.

Which is why it is not only knuckleheads who die untimely deaths.

rl

Whilst this is certainly true, so is the fact that if you delve back through the events preceding a consequence you will see that the consequence was absolutely preventable.

Decisions made...consequences determined.

PS sorry for disagreeing with you R. Please don't beat me up.

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[Faber 0]

even as i think shit just happens sometimes i must say that im not surpriced that it happened.

I wont Question Miles for his training im sure he knows what his doing,but i guess he forgot to teach a few lessons,even as this object strike were from an offheadding other of us might aswell had spanked in aswell.

I think Scott should have been told that soloing his first B aint the way to do it..

Im in the true belive that none pof us likes to get injuryed or bustet but it happens.

Heal fast Scott

Miles pleace teach your student evrything before you let them play the game them self..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[skypuppy 1]

There is one other facet about this BASE jump which is causing concern among the local skydiving population. Calgary has been the site of two recent inquiries into skydiving deaths over the last couple of years, in fact the last one (which took about a year to work its way through the court) just finished up its testimony on the day of this jump, and sent the judge back to his chambers to mull it over....

The skydivers in the area, and indeed in Canada, since this is the third inquiry in that many years or so, are concerned that this is another bad example that will possibly lead to increased government intervention. And the papers seem to play it up that way.

Perhaps if this person had been a skydiver he may not have jumped a building in this particular city at this particular time? Considering he was not a local anyway? (He is apparently from BC)

Not necessarily my opinion, I'm just throwing it out for comment.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Base66 0]

Hi everyone,

Being a very inexperienced BASE jumper compared to most of you I do have a suggestion. Couldn't we send the poor guy Scott some positive energy so that he heals better and quicker instead of fighting it out within the community? I believe the last thing Scott needs is to get news that everybody is debating about why he hit the building, why he shouldn't have, what he did wrong, how he screwed up, how he missjudged that and how he missjudged this etc. Let's support our collegue instead.
Jevto ( a very old fart from the 80ies)

[blair700 0]

Hey man,
On a side note (sorry for the hi jack TA)
NICE BOOK!! Thank YOU for writing and sharing it!
Blair
BASE 700

[crwper 7]

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I think Scott should have been told that soloing his first B aint the way to do it.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. Scott had two ground crew. He was the only jumper at the exit point, but he did have backup on the ground. Also, this wasn't his first B. As I count them, it was at least his third. Not to say he's super-experienced, but let's not kid ourselves by thinking the causes of this accident were simple.

Perhaps Scott would have benefited from having a more experienced jumper at the exit point, but maybe not. A this point it's unkown whether the cause of the accident was body position, winds, or just something that came out of nowhere--we've all had off-headings we couldn't explain, and it would be foolish, I think, to assume this doesn't also happen to jumpers taught by Miles. Does anyone here seriously believe they are immune to building strike because they were trained by the "right" people?

In my limited time knowing him, it has struck me that Scott is the kind of person who has to learn something for himself. Is this the safest/easiest way to get into BASE jumping? That's a whole other discussion. Will debating that question make any difference at all in Scott's learning style? I think we'd have to be fairly self-important to believe Scott would adopt our learning style any faster than we would adopt his.

As for the different routes one can take to BASE jumping... I think it's obvious that a well-prepared paraglider is on equal footing with a well-prepared skydiver in this sport. If I was going to give advice to a beginning skydiver who wanted to get into BASE as soon as possible, I'd tell them to focus on canopy skills and rigging. I certainly wouldn't tell them how handy it will be if they can do a style set in under 15 seconds, or nail a diving exit. We all know that the exit in BASE is mainly gymnastic, and has little in common with a skydiving exit.

The causes for this accident are probably quite simple, but it will be a little while yet before Scott can share those causes with us. In the mean time, I think casting about at the usual supsects is probably going to get us nowhere we haven't already been.

Michael

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I originally wasn't interested in participating in this thread other than reading it and following it. But my brother lives in Calgary and he's let me in on some extra information (and my brother is aware of my BASE jumping activities). It turns out that the winds were 20-30kts with unpredictable gusts that night. Now I'm pretty new to BASE myself and agree with Ray Losli that sometimes shit just happens. But this fellow was "not too smart" in my brothers words for jumping in these WX conditions and I think I might just have to agree with my whuffo brother here. It's one thing to have an off heading opening on a B during no-wind conditions (the shit happens part of BASE), but any one of us who were taught by knowledgeable people (and paid attention to the instruction) knows that jumping Bs in wind is a no-no. Anyway, I'm done here. I don't want to bash the injured person any more because one day you guys could be bashing me from an accident I get involved in. I hope the injured jumper heals so that he can resume his jumping career (using better judgement this time).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[crwper 7]

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Perhaps if this person had been a skydiver he may not have jumped a building in this particular city at this particular time? Considering he was not a local anyway? (He is apparently from BC)

Rest assured the local skydiver/BASE jumper population is doing plenty of BASE jumps in spite of the ongoing inquiry. I can't believe skydivers are seriously suggesting that BASE jumpers should put their sport on hold because of an issue which has been carrying on for years. If the inquiry had taken place in the middle of the skydiving season, am I to assume that the local dropzones would shut down for the duration?

No disrespect intended to the families of those who have died at Jim's dropzone, and I understand this is not necessarily the personal view of the poster. It just kills me that skydivers are seriously suggesting this has anything to do with them.

Michael

[crwper 7]

Quote

It turns out that the winds were 20-30kts with unpredictable gusts that night.

The winds were about 20 km/h at the airport that night, but they were 9 km/h at Canada Olympic Park. As the locals know, downtown sits in kind of a depression which means winds here can sometimes be radically different from what they are at the airport, which is basically on bald-ass prairie.

Michael