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NickDG

Should Ken Swyers be on the List . . . ?

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I vote yes.

The attempt was truly courageous. He landed on the top. Despite losing his footing on the fixed object, he deployed his reserve, which failed him.

If we do not honor such limit pushing, what have we become?
Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

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Where did you get that logic from? It is certainly not mine. I think I will allow you to take the credit for that. ;)

But since you want to discuss semantics:

Skydiving is the delay between exiting an aircraft and initiation of your deployment (I think they call this freefall). Last time I jumped off a cliff, it didn't have a roaring Pratt & Whitney anywhere nearby so I am not going to give that rock an aircraft definition. You would need some awesome power to get a cliff off the ground and flying. But I'll check again in case I've missed something.

In a hop 'n' pop from an aircraft, there is a freefall component. Albeit short. Hence you are skydiving. On a static line, deployment is initiated immediately. so you are not skydiving but are in fact parachuting.

Think about that for a second, if you did a s/l would you dive out? How far would you get on the dive? Not very. That is why a s/l is not a sky"dive" but a parachute descent.

Any jump off a fixed object is a BASE jump. Cliff = Earth = E = 4th letter in BASE = first half of terminology BASE Jump = . . . .


Oh, I give up. :D

;)

p.s. the definitions are not mine. They are an integral part of parachuting / skydiving / BASE jumping vocabulary. If you don't believe me, go to para publishing and buy Poynter's manual. It has the definitions in there.
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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I vote yes.

I agree what Wendy says:
_________________
Had it worked it would have been a BASE jump.
_________________

If this would have been his second BASE Jump, he would have been on the second list.
But as he was not yet a BASE Jumper, he can not be on the second list. He died trying to do a BASE Jump.
To get to the exit point he did a Skydive but the Skydive was only a part of the preparation.
Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

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Hey Nick...

Maybe making a poll thread would make it easier for you to tally the vote...

So after reading some more of the thread I'm wondering....did the guy that slipped off an icy edge with a packed BASE rig on his back die BASE jumping? He had hiked up there to jump, he had BASE gear in a stash bag on his back, if he hadn't slipped he would have jumped (and ironically probably would have lived), so did he die BASE jumping?

Someone mentioned Dwain...is he on the top half of the list? Why? He had exited an airplane in wingsuit. That isn't a BASE jump....

Wow, this is confounding. Did I volunteer to take over The List when you retire? Oh yeah, I did. Silly me...(j/k, I'll still do the job even when it goes gray instead of being black and white.)

Love ya Nick, you're the best. :P

Peace,
K

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He was attempting a base jump, even though it seems the skydive is what ended his life. I still think he should be added to the bottom list.

***Free bird Forever

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>>Maybe making a poll thread would make it easier for you to tally the vote...<<

I didn't use a poll so everyone would be more apt to explain their reasoning.

>>Someone mentioned Dwain...is he on the top half of the list?<<

Dwain is on the bottom section of the List.

>>How could you not include people like Franz Reichelt who plunged to his death after intentionally stepping off the eiffel tower<<

The List only includes fatalities that occurred after the "modern age" of fixed object jumping began in 1978.

Besides, there's some confusion about Reichelt's jump. I always believed he had a canopy loosely draped over some type of framework so that it would more easily deploy as he fell. Others think this was really an early bird man suit, and still others say he was just counting on the drag of all that material to slow him down.

It's twenty-four for, and nineteen against . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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Hi Nick --

In my opinion, he did not die BASE jumping. He died sliding off an object that he intended to BASE jump from. He did not make any BASE jumps prior to this, and therefore was not a BASE jumper yet.

My vote is a definitive "No" for the top half of the list.

And my vote is "No" for the bottom half of the list. (BASE jumpers who died outside of the sport)

Bryan

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It's twenty-four for, and nineteen against . . .

Quote



VOTE EARLY~VOTE OFTEN!

Close the polls...B|


I got an idea!
Ken was deploying a 26' Strong LoPo,
put him under a "probably wouldda died BASE jumping" heading.













~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I think its a yes - the fact that he hadn't made any BASE jumps is merely semantics and splitting hairs with regards to the criteria of the list - and as it is your list, Nick, you decide whether that is the issue here. He died during the access portion of a BASE jump (see Neil Q [:/]) and therefore deserves to be added.

....but on the other hand; if his family don't want him included, that should decide the matter.

My £0.0106696 (current exchange rate)
"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

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I think he deserves to be on the list, but not at the top. While he'd never had a BASE jump (that anyone knows of) it appeared that he was certainly attempting one so should be on the bottom. He deserves no higher place that the Feb. 02 fatality, since that jumper actually had jumps.

Then again, Swyers shares much in common with Fatality #56, who slipped on launch, which is on the top of the list.

Still, if I hadda, I'd put it on the list, at the bottom.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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I think he'd be right at home on the bottom list. There are a couple of BASE jumpers there who slipped on the way to an exit point. Anyone who makes a serious attempt to land on the arch (with the intention of jumping from it) is already a BASE jumper in my mind. If he had stuck the landing but decided not to jump, that would be different. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on whether or not he "would have" done it.

Michael

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Ok it seems that #56 died while making the jump, he slipped on exit but he was still in the process of doing the take-off, which is why he's on the top list.

Jurgen Ornburger and Neil Queminet died while reaching the exit, which is why they're on the bottom.

Ken's jump seems more like Jurgen and Neil's incidents than #56's. He died reaching the exit, not doing the launch portion of the jump like #56.

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ooooohhhhhhhhhh - now I get it!

;) :) :)
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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I like Phree's suggestion of "In Pursuit of the Sport"

Perhaps to include all those who die intending to carry out a BASE jump. Those who are climbing to the exit intending to BASE are in pursuit of their sport. Whilst they died outside the sport (climbing) they were pursuing BASE.

I feel the same goes here - many would argue he died before he commenced his BASE attempt (I'd perhaps disagree here but, just for the sake of argument let’s assume its not a true BASE jump). I think there would be a strong argument for saying he died pursuing a BASE jump though, would their not?

Thus you would have three strongly defined categories:
deaths by way of a BASE jump,
non-BASE jumping deaths of BASE jumpers,
and finally those who died during the commission of an act which is more than merely preparatory towards the conduct of a BASE jump - "In Pursuit of the Sport".

Those are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

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with all due respect, NO for the existing 2 lists. he was neither a base jumper, nor did he die attempting to basejump. he did not even get to the attempt because he did not survive his skydive to begin with.

nevertheless, for his spirit (wanting to basejump) and for educational purposes i think there should be references as "other base-related deaths" for him and the rocket guy.

c-ya,
flummi
flummi
* Respekt - ist uns're Aufgabe (fanta4) *

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Quote

But since you want to discuss semantics:

Skydiving is the delay between exiting an aircraft and initiation of your deployment (I think they call this freefall).
.
.
.
Oh, I give up. :D



I vote yes for being on the list but in a new category.

And this discussion opens a new can of worms, I now realize I'm not sure how to classify plane to plane jumps when one lands in the same or another plane that one has just jumped out of.

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Okay, case closed . . .

I'll add Ken and Robert to a third section of the List.

Thanks, everyone for replying . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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And this discussion opens a new can of worms, I now realize I'm not sure how to classify plane to plane jumps when one lands in the same or another plane that one has just jumped out of.



What about a McCutaway? I was firmly informed (only partly tongue in cheek) that a McCutaway is neither a skydive (no aircraft) nor a BASE jump (no packed rig when leaving the object).
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Plane to Plane = Skydive

Plane to Impact = Skydive

They all involve freefall pre-deployment. No one said you had to deploy. I guess it was just assumed you would.

This is too hard. I might just flop off or out of something and call it what all my non jumping friends call it, crazy. ;) :)
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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And what about the obscure case of jumping from a ferris wheel and being killed in freefall by a plane in flight?
Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

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I've jumped off a "ferris wheel" - parachute opened well (just) before "impact". ;)

I'll let you call that scenario whatever you like.

Have you got a photo of you smling for your avatar? :)
Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

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