Remove the BASE Fatality List

[freakydiver 0]

Isn't it kind of hard to remove the "grim reaper" aura from a list of the dead? No offense to those that have past or friends and family...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[sitflybaseboy 0]

Doesn't Parachutist post a fatality List every Year? What about that Jason? Nobody seems to have a problem with that particular list, which lists 20-35 fatalities a year, as opposed to 85 over the life of the entire sport.
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy

BASE 1043 Night BASE 160
BASE is to skydivers as skydiving is to whuffos

[base428 1]

Mark, as mentioned in my original post more than one month ago, my main beef with the list is that it is "made morbidly available to the media". And in the last month, there was yet another reporter who referenced the current death count in his anti-BASE story about the Canadian building incident. The list is definately valuable to jumpers, but it only serves to weaken our image because it is often misused by the media.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[freakydiver 0]

Media misuses these fatalities on both sides of the coin and most likely always will due to the nature of the sports of skydiving and base jumping. Until skydiving and base jumping are part of gym class curriculum (tounge in cheek as they never will) they will always be considered extreme sports and sensationalized from the media.

I think the importance of the fatality list both in skydiving and base jumping to jumpers far outweighs the attention it may get from media. I for one could care less about the bullshit media prints about both sports because I know they never a) have all the facts and b) couldn't disseminate those facts even if they had them anyhow given the outside nature of the media. More times than not they have no clue about the circumstances behind these incidents - but just like all other media output, they are going to print what sells more than what is true.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[NickDG 23]

The "best foot forward" idea was discounted years ago in skydiving. Drop zones have been pro-active in dealing with the media since the early 80's when PARACHUTIST began running articles on the subject. However, skydivers are still misunderstood by the media and they have more access issues than ever. In fact, you can say over the years the best thing for the image of skydiving was the advent of BASE jumping. In articles about BASE jumping, where skydiving is cited as a way to explain it, skydiving comes off like the more sane activity.

Something I think lost on more recent BASE jumpers is the fact we thumbed our noses at authority a long time ago. It's a founding principal of our sport. As soon as we bargain for access we must make promises in return, promises no single BASE jumper has the right to make on behalf of the rest of us.

I can't help but get the feeling that because some don't favor illegal jumps they're looking to change the very nature of the sport. Jean Boenish (without Carl to guide her) tried to impose "her own" ideas of what BASE jumping should be and finally she left the sport frustrated.

Will the day come when an illegal BASE jump gone wrong in Nevada reflects negatively on our year round access at Bridge Day? Will that Nevada jumper be ostracized by the BASE community? When that days comes shut the lights and lock the door as BASE jumping as we know it is finished.

The organization of Bridge Day is the best it's ever been. The people who do that organizing are referred to as "leaders of the sport" by the media. But the truth is they aren't, no one is. I'm really not the rabble rouser I sound like here and I'm willing to play ball up to a point. But we pass that point by hiding the truth.

Something unseen is the amount of contact I've gotten over the years from people outside the sport. People who say they understand more about BASE then before. These people get more from the List than the distracters who see it only as the "death list." The List shows our human side, it shows we care about our past, and it shows we mourn our losses.

The only way BASE jumpers would ever get the media into their corner is the same way the government has done it. We have to get our buddies to start purchasing media empires. If Jason asked me to remove the List while he was trying to purchase FOX news I might accommodate him . . .

The BASE Fatality List will stay up as long as I can manage it.

When the time comes when I can't do it anymore I will pass the job onto someone who'll promise to do the same. To those who don't like it I say find a way to use it to your advantage.

NickD BASE 194

[vandev 0]

Glad to see yuo back Nick!!! Hope you are feeling well....All the best Chris

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[tfelber 0]

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...base jumping are part of gym class curriculum (tounge in cheek as they never will)...

Careful about your assumptions there. There is a BASE course at a TF campus and while it doesn't involve jumping that's not beyond possibility.

[TomAiello 25]

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...base jumping are part of gym class curriculum (tounge in cheek as they never will)...

Careful about your assumptions there. There is a BASE course at a TF campus and while it doesn't involve jumping that's not beyond possibility.

I'm very careful about what's in the College of Southern Idaho curriculum.

However, there has been a high school BASE club in Boise (still is, I believe) that took high school students for actual jumps here.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[freakydiver 0]

But we most likely could all agree that insurance will prevent BASE from ever becoming regular in gym class no? After all - show me a gym class that uses atrampoline anymore due to the litigation suits brought against schools in the 80s. Come on people, playing devils advocate in this instance is just not realistic and I think you all know that...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[tfelber 0]

This is quite off-topic from this thread, but if universities are subsidizing skydiving clubs, it seems they are just a liable as if it was part of their curriculum.

[freakydiver 0]

True true - perhaps another thread altogether... My bad for getting off topic.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[sitflybaseboy 0]

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Mark, as mentioned in my original post more than one month ago, my main beef with the list is that it is "made morbidly available to the media".

I agree with you, but is the skydiving fatality list not made "morbidly available" as well? The media will ultimately find out anyway, and usually tell the whole story out of context. When I read a reporters story, it usually doesn't make since, but when I read Nick's page, the stories seem to make alot more since.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing on the subject, I'm just saying with the advent of high speed media, the world will eventually find out one way or another. Why not hear it from a person who actually has an idea of what really happened, and has some basic knowledge of BASE.
I don't really know the solution, but censorship of Nick's List is definitely not the solution.
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy

BASE 1043 Night BASE 160
BASE is to skydivers as skydiving is to whuffos

[jasonwhack 0]

Wow =), that was the most interesting 25 minutes I have had in a long time.

"Something I think lost on more recent BASE jumpers is the fact we thumbed our noses at authority a long time ago. It's a founding principal of our sport."

This is why you jump? This is the spirit that new jumpers have lost. How depressing, I sure hope the founding principal is more then sticking it to authority.

Jason

www.backcountryparachutists.org
--Fair and Equal Access--

[NickDG 23]

I think most understood what I meant . . .

NickD BASE 194

[RhondaLea 3]

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Wow =), that was the most interesting 25 minutes I have had in a long time.

"Something I think lost on more recent BASE jumpers is the fact we thumbed our noses at authority a long time ago. It's a founding principal of our sport."

This is why you jump? This is the spirit that new jumpers have lost. How depressing, I sure hope the founding principal is more then sticking it to authority.

Somehow I think you missed the point, and in so doing, you changed the entire meaning of what Nick wrote.

I don't like it when someone takes me out of context and recasts my words. For that matter, I do not know anyone who does, so I don't expect that Nick appreciates it very much either.

rl

Edited for clarity, although I'm not certain it matters.

[TomAiello 25]

I dunno. Even pulled out of context, I get what Nick was saying.

BASE culture is pretty complex. It's definitely got a certain amount of nose-thumbing in it. There's lots of other stuff, too, but I'm pretty sure that's why Nick said it was a founding principle, not the founding principle.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jasonwhack 0]

I understood =) Completely...

I am an firm supporter of shared information. Keep the list up.

Jason

Jason
Darrow Said
"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."

[leroydb 0]

The more I think about this the more I think the list should stay up for a number of reasons

1. Shared information
2. Because the info is shared, it will scare a lot of people from getting into base

this off topic but....

I propose the idea that the less (mass influx) people that BASE illegally, the better chance that the rest of us can continue to BASE, legal or otherwise.

For whatever it'z worth

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[BASE813 0]

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it will scare a lot of people from getting into base

If this is true, then the amount of people who would get into BASE is massive. There is an amazing amount of people entering the sport at the moment, some of these people (from speaking to them) seem not to have the knowledge or skills once thought of as needed before BASE jumping. I have even spoken to people who now jump (as it seems fucking easy to get into BASE with all the "courses" available) who have not even heard of "The List" or flown a 7 cell before their FJC's! or know how to pack slider down v up! - I met a guy who did not even know what a mesh slider was before his FJC!

We are reaching critical mass here, we are getting reports of day blazing, people doing things they dont have the skill for (B's on jump 8 and the like), teachers taking students to objects they have not even jumped, the list goes on.............

People are entering the sport without any concept of working for it or making any effort............. this in the long run is going to be the downfall of the sport.......

so to say the list should stand as it puts people off I disagree with - the fact remains - BASE is now trendy and so very easily accessable - and I think (certainly in the UK) we are about to enter some dark times................

the List is never going to stop this............

[Sean621 0]

leave it up...i for one have seen a change in the sport in five years...its now TOO accessible (yeah im selfish)..also the hurdles that made you think long and hard about getting into it arent as visible as they were so, your average 150 jump dickhead from the dropzone can get on a course then hey presto hes a BASE jumper day blazing the objects in your locale (already happening here in england)...leave the list up and raise the jump number threshold to 500 jumps ,show them the death video as a mandatory experience to go through before they get accepted on a course..maybe we should make them talk to mates of Slims,Niks,DW,Duane Thomas,Jason F and the rest of the 86 before they even get a look in...i dont know..but for one thing leaving the list up is a good place to start...

http://www.extreme-on-demand.com

[klapaucius 0]

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it will scare a lot of people from getting into base

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If this is true, then the amount of people who would get into BASE is massive. There is an amazing amount of people entering the sport ....

A wannabie following this list and some other websites, like Vertical Vision's will conclude that the Bridge day jump is something reasonable for any skydiver who is willing to listen:

Do your skydives, practice 7 cell canopy a bit, register, listen to the seminars and jump.

He will get an impression (apparently correct), that Bridge Day is safe fun for responsible adults). The impression is reinforced by jumpers doing such things as you can see in 'airfarce' and JebCorliss bridge jumps: If they can do this, a simple jump with 2-3 second delay not must be simple, but IS simple.

Also this forum reinforces the impression (again correct!) about the reliability of modern equipment. The significant risks discussed are landing and cliff strike.

When I read 'the list' the first time I had an immpression that those who did not make it were either pushing the envelope - or had a cliff-strike for whatever reason. :

"to have jumped into a fog bank and may have lost his bearings"

"The conditions are pretty bad: It is raining and the wind is strong and gusty"

"over delayed in a back to earth position while filming other jumpers "

"Using a skydiving rig not modified for BASE, and without any prior BASE training"

"he is caught in a time warp as far as BASE equipment is concerned."

"Friends said it is too dark, the wind isn't right, and the water is too high"

"took too much time to come back to a good position facing away from the wall"

"as a canopy with a reputation for not being suitable for BASE jumping"

"the fog has extended almost all the way to the ground"

"should not have been on that load with his obvious inexperience "

" it does have a sketchy launch point"

"believed he could out fly the ledge right up until he died"

"Not having a pilot chute connected to the canopy on a single canopy system has always been a nightmare scenario"

An the list goes on and on. There seem to be not that many entries where the accidents could be called "non-preventable".

The early pioneers opened the frontiers, often paid the ultimate price, and there will be an influx of people to all extreme sports including this one.

[outrager 6]

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show them the death video as a mandatory experience to go through before they get accepted on a course..maybe we should make them talk to mates of Slims,Niks,DW,Duane Thomas,Jason F and the rest of the 86 before they even get a look in..

Been doing just that for the last couple of years. I firmly believe that a carnage video must be shown to each and every student before they make a decision to enter the sport. Aside from many technical aspects it really shows on emotional level what they will be dealing with.

Funny enough, i still have not seen any student who would walk away after watching a video.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[Thijs 0]

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Funny enough, i still have not seen any student who would walk away after watching a video.

I think this has to do with the 'unpersonal' aspect of a video. If I would for example be shown the video of Slims accident it wouldn't hurt me that much. I mean, I don't like it so see him get killed, but I didn't knew him. It would hurt me much more if I knew him more, or if it was someone I knew in the video (but why to see the video then).

I think someone who has lost a good friend in skydiving (perhaps even in base (before the person started to basejump)) is more likely to walk away from base, then someone who has never lost a friend and is just shown a video of someone he doesn't know.

This is why I'm a big 'fan' of longterm ground crew (a year or more) before base. Experiencing a person getting hurt (even if it is 'just' a broke arm or leg) can and will do much more then a video can ever do.

Thijs

[TomAiello 25]

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...show them the death video as a mandatory experience to go through before they get accepted on a course..

I've found that the memorial videos are usually better "wake up calls" than the actual death videos. It hits home a lot harder if you see the person's whole life, their family, the people who loved them, etc. If you just watch the carnage, it's too easy to see it as a "video game" and disconnect it from reality. The point of showing the footage ought to be to get people to connect the reality of the sport with the reality of their life, and understand that the consequences are real, and can really affect them.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skreamer 1]

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People are entering the sport without any concept of working for it or making any effort

This is the part that gets me, these guys who are fucking around are just following in other jumpers footsteps and screwing up established objects. They are making no effort whatsoever to open anything themselves.

I'm still new to BASE, but the level of attitude and ignorance from some people even newer to the sport than me is unbelievable.

Is this 'I want it and I want it now' attitude a new thing or have there always been this many fuckwits not willing to pay their dues?

On the positive side, the newbie on our crew (Richard) is sound, he listens and he thinks. I've also jumped with two newbies up north who were really switched on (both very experienced skydivers and have packed many reserves). I do think people who have paid some dues in skydiving think a bit more about consequences.

Last year was a bad year but unless people stop jumping objects that are beyond their ability/experience we are heading for worse.

Will