Random thoughts about dealing with family (long)

[freefal 0]

I was watching the Fearless special on OLN featuring Jeb Corliss with my wife the other night. Her and I have had many discussions about the risks associated with BASE jumping. During many parts of the show, especially Jeb’s waterfall incident, she would nudge me with this look as if to say, “See what I mean? How can you argue that jumping isn’t crazy.” Following the show there was another episode of Fearless that documented the life of Greg Lamond and his Tour de France victories and it included a section about a hunting accident in which he almost died.

It struck me later how similar the two incidents were and how even though I saw them as such, most people probably didn’t see the same parallels that I saw. In both events people were pursuing their form of recreation and doing something they find pleasure in. They were outside with friends engaging in one of their passions. Neither one of them wanted to die, but both of them came very close. In fact they were “trying to live” by experiencing something they enjoy.

Both accidents were due to mistakes, or more accurately multiple combined mistakes that led to serious, life threatening injuries. Greg’s brother in law shot at something without awareness of where his buddies were and he shot below the horizon. This resulted in Greg getting shot at close range, almost dying, and to this day he still has over 30 lead shot pellets in his body. Jeb jumped in less than ideal conditions and dropped a shoulder. This gave him his off heading opening that sent him into the waterfall and resulted in several broken bones and a long hospital stay.

The key is that they were both due to mistakes. The most important thing to note though is that hunting is considered “normal” while BASE jumping is not. The reason is that jumping taps into the primal fear of falling that all humans have. This primal fear is the root of all the problems, laws, discussions, etc. against activities like BASE. In Garret Soden’s book Falling: How Our Greatest Fear Became Our Greatest Thrill he discusses how there is this unconscious prejudice against people who participate in gravity driven sports like BASE jumping. A “normal” person can’t comprehend why someone would do something that makes most people sick to their stomachs. They can’t help but ask ‘why’ and be angry that someone would do something so ‘stupid’. They see BASE jumping as ‘unnatural’ and ‘insane’ and …”there should be regulations against things like that”. A jumper however, sees jumping as somewhat normal in the sense that it is their form of recreation. It’s their version of hunting, golf, racing, whatever. If they make a mistake, they will suffer the consequences, but they do everything in their power to avoid mistakes. Hunters take hunter safety courses to avoid getting shot or killed, but it still happens. Jumpers take first jump courses and discuss safety issues in depth with one another to avoid getting hurt or killed, but it still happens.

If one removes the emotional aspect and looks at these two incidents from a purely analytical point of view and only assesses the facts, then they are very similar in many ways. And if the hunting accident, although tragic, can be considered somewhat normal and an acceptable amount of risk, then why can’t BASE jumping and the risks involved with it be considered acceptable as well? We as BASE jumpers can understand this logic, but since this fear of falling is so ingrained in “normal” peoples’ minds they don’t even realize the basic cause for their frustration.

Sorry that this turned out to be such a long rant, but I thought it might offer someone a little help if they’re trying to explain BASE jumping to their family and friends.

"Ignorance is bliss" and "Patience is a virtue"... So if you're stupid and don't mind waiting around for a while, I guess you can have a pretty good life!

[Calvin19 0]

well said.
When I started BASE i still lived with my dad right out of high school. There was a tension about it. (as there was when i started hang gliding in middle school) I am sending this to him, i hope it helps him understand.

-SPACE-

[basehoundsam 0]

Just an opinion ......
The only thing similar in my mind, is the fact that both incidents were life threatening. BASE is dangerous ...... hucking yourself off of an object, tossing out a piece of nylon that drags out another bunch of nylon that is connected to you by fine strings, is never going to be safe.
A friend of mine puts it like this...... when you go out on a BASE mission/trip its like going to war...... everyone may come back intact, but more than likely there is a likelihood of an injury or death... even to yourself. I know of very few people in the sport who have not seen a fatality in person, or at least been to a jumper friends funeral.
I hunted for years. The sport(or pastime in many cases) is riddled with "Accidents" involving ones self or others in ones party. Who you choose to hunt with, and how you choose to take simple firearm safety will almost completely protect you from getting dead.
I truly believe what we do is more dangerous per person than almost any other "Sport" out there. Just like the manufacturer says : Even if the gear is assembled, packed, and jumped in ideal conditions........ there is a very real potential for injury or death.

Any-one getting into this "Sport" with the expectations that it can't happen to them , that they are to smart/analitical/anal/carefull/conservative ........better realize the potential price for playing is....Dying a painful death/crippling ones self/ watching a friend get hurt/killed.

Trying to downplay what the very real-deal about this "Sport" is, will only give people more ammunition against you later in the sport. Last year a friend from the local DZ who wants to get into BASE brought his girlfriend out to the R.G. bridge on Sunday . He had been telling her about how safe jumping was . How if he made all the right decisions and was super conservative, he could live a happy and long life jumping simple object like this Bridge. 10 minutes later Dwaine died............ He'll never jump shit as long as he's with this person......



Just food for thought........

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com

[freefal 0]

I completely aggree with you Jay. The point of my post wasn't to downplay the dangers associated with BASE, but more to illustrate where a lot of the misunderstanding and emotion comes from when we try to explain why we do what we do to the those that are close to us.

We always talk about how BASE is about personal decisions and motivations. No matter how well we try to explain this to some people though, it just falls on deaf ears. After reading some of the psychological theories and studies behind sensation seeking and especially the Falling... book, it started to become clear to me why alot of our family and friends will never understand our motivations. Fortunately, some will be accepting but deep down it just doesn't make sense to them why we throw ourselves off stuff. I just think trying to understand where they might be coming from (even if its on such a sub-consious level that they may not understand it themselves) can be helpful for jumpers or potential jumpers who are dealing with resistance from people who think they're crazy.

All things considered though, I still think Tom gave some of the best advice when he said that even though BASE has been the most rewarding thing in his life, he would never advise anyone to do it.

"Ignorance is bliss" and "Patience is a virtue"... So if you're stupid and don't mind waiting around for a while, I guess you can have a pretty good life!

[basehoundsam 0]

I see.... I guess my reply is more related to the comparing of the two incidents. I guess its probably difficult for anybody to explain to others why giving up everything is worth the risk to achieve a goal...... be it a an Olympic Gold or a nice gravity fed free-fall. I think outsiders have a problem because BASE, rightly so, is attached to injury and death, while you rarely see or hear of people pursuing other "normal" hobbies being killed or crippled. A lot of this is perception ... It's also impossible to explain to people the things that BASE does for you inside. It's too..... personal....

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com

[NickDG 23]

>>she would nudge me with this look as if to say, “See what I mean?<<

Of course, this would be like explaining scuba diving to your spouse after she saw an episode of the old TV show Seahunt . . .

NickD BASE 194

[TVPB 0]

I agree - it can be a dangerous sport.

But what I don't like is the fact that people are too ready to accept that it is a VERY dangerous activity and consequently don't do enough to minimise the danger & risk. To add to that, they then take excessive risk. This does not make the sport excessively dangerous, it makes the actions of the individual excessively dangerous. There is a difference.

"Oh well, I could get killed doing this, stuff it, lets just do it". OR - "since this is dangerous, I might as well go the whole way".

DW died because he erred on the wrong side of caution. If he had of erred 100 feet higher, the conversation would have been different. Obviously this wont affect the perception of the girlfirend and others there.

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TomAiello 25]

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This does not make the sport excessively dangerous, it makes the actions of the individual excessively dangerous. There is a difference.

I wonder if the sport attracts individuals prone to act in such a manner, though?

And even more so, if the presence of such individuals is central to the underlying fabric of the sport?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[basehoundsam 0]

It's not that it "can" be a dangerous sport......the reality of it is that there are not many sports that compare ..... name one that you go to funerals on a regular basis. Or better yet in your other sports..... how many "other" sport friends do you have that are crippled???? I see more naive people not realizing how dumb/dangerous they are compared to I Don't care about life types. I agree that it "can" be a dangerous sport... and it is. When I got up to go snowbaording yesterday(18 " fresh) I didn't take a med kit, I didn't alert my friends as to look for me if I don't check in, and I seriously doubt that with over 1000 ski days, I was going to get killed or even hurt. Even with a 1000 jumps...... anything can happen on any jump. You can minimize it, pretend it doesn't exist, or even rationalize it all day..... but BAD things happen to experienced/not experienced people. Deny this and you deny reality..... just look at Nick's Site.

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com

[TVPB 0]

Dangerous Sports / Activities Where I have met/known people who have ended up dead &/or severely injured:

- Rock Fishing
- Ultralight Flying
- "Extreme Skiing"
- Running with the bulls & Matadors
- Skydiving
- Mountaineering
- general aviation
- Scuba Diving
- hang gliding

& to a lessor extent:
- football
- skiiing
- motor racing
- ETC

r.e. your skiing comment - in your 1000 days of skiiing, did you choose to ski the 80 degree chute covered in rocks or did you just stick to the black runs? Did you go to the 90m ski jump first or did you start on moguls? Did you try aerobatics on a cliff on your 10th jump or did you stick to flat and stable p/c in hand?

Did you go rock fishing during a storm with a big swell or did you fish from the beach during calm weather? You are thinking correctly - you can't control the force of mother nature or determine exactly when the killer wave is going to wash you out to sea. But you can decide to go beach fishing instead of rock fishing during these weather conditions or just buy the fish from the markets. Just like you can decide to go pca off a bridge into water instead of freefalling that underhung cliff during questionable windy conditions into a tight arese landing area.

Of course you can't control everything, I am not denying that. But you can choose to control most things. Anything can happen on any jump???? Only if you make it happen. You bounce if you don't deploy. You don't deploy because you lost height awareness, or you got yourself into trouble trying advanced manouvres, or you jumped something underhung, or you forgot your rig, OR . . . . . . . . . . ..

It is not about rationalisation. It is about preventing problems from occuring by recognising them beforehand and making a conscious decision to act on those problems beforehand. It is not about pretending danger does not exist, its about accepting the reality that you can control most of the things that may stuff you up. Pretending you can't control risks is not accepting reality either. Blaming "bad things" or "bad luck" is an attempt to hand the responsibility of your safety to other forces.

If you choose to make an extremely risky jump, you ARE increasing the likelihood of problems occuring. But you made that choice. Bad things did not happen. Bad things resulted from your choice.

Experienced people & the inexperienced alike have made poor decisions & will continue to do so. I have. Bad things happened as a result of the choice they made, not because some alien force.

r.e. Nick's site - yes, look at Nicks site. Lots of bad things have happened. But if you look closely you'll see that lost of choices were made, some not so good. Often several bad choices were made at once.

p.s. There is probably no need to think Tom A - these types of activities do attract the individuals you referred to. And each one of us probably has a percentage of that individual in us.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

And at no stage am I saying to people that they should stop doing what they are doing. I have a strong belief in freedom of expression and the right to pursue the activities you want to pursue, in whatever form you choose. I also have a strong belief in pushing personal envelopes - balanced with a strong sense of personal responsibility, awareness, & preparation. I have been fortunate to witness personally & film a lot of this in our sport.

BUT WHAT I AM SAYING IS THIS - IF PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO THINGS WELL BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT THEY KNOW AND ARE REALISTICALLY CAPABLE OF, WE SHOULD NOT EXCEPT THAT IT WAS JUST BAD LUCK. Thay have consciously decided to either make or not make decisions on information they possess or have chosen not to attain.

In the last 4 years or so, the sport has gone from only a few gifted &/or brave individuals performing advanced techniques to the better part of the whole jumping community doing the same thing at a much earlier stage of their jumping career. There are very sports with such a steep "progression" curve in such an "uncontrolled manner". By progression I mean attempting advanced manouvres earlier. By uncontrolled I mean without adequate coaching and/or structured skill development.

You don't see people drive formula one cars in their first season of driving. You don't see people surf pipeline during the peak winter months in their first season, there are very few people who climb K2 just after starting mountaineering, not many fighter pilots out there with no cessna/light GA experience, etc. AND IF PEOPLE DO WHAT IS CONTRARY TO THE ABOVE - it is usually heavily funded and supported by a team of experts with intensive development programs. Yet, there are many BASE jumpers who jump wingsuits off underhung cliffs with minimal wingsuit experience, many jumpers who jump in winds without a true appreciation of what affects turbulence has on their deployment & canopies, many people doing aerobatics without any dive/gymnastic experience/training. Accidents that result are not bad luck. These are the type of things that I am saying the individual CAN control. If they really want to. If people are unsure, they can get a second opinon. Being naive is choosing not to pursue other sources of information or blindly believing the first thing you are told. Either way, these are all decisions (both conscious &/or subconscious) that we have made.

It is your choice. Choose life!!!!!!!!! Choose it wisely.

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

& Go Hard after you have done adequate preparation.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Bigwallmaster 0]

Reply to Jay Epstein Ramirez:

"It's not that it "can" be a dangerous sport......the reality of it is that there are not many sports that compare ..... name one that you go to funerals on a regular basis. Or better yet in your other sports..... how many "other" sport friends do you have that are crippled????"

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I agree with everything you have said Jay. But I feel there are quite a few really dangerous sports out there that are on the same level as BASE, as opposed to just a few. I'm not going to name them all. One I feel that deserves some credit is hard Alpine climbing on big mountains. And no, I'm not talking about some yahoo that climbs El Cap or walks his way up the trade route on McKinley. I'm talking about extremely steep Alpines walls that are covered in rock/ice, where the climb is done in 1 push, ground up with minimal equipment, or even solo without a rope. Like BASE, there are a limited number of individuals in the world that are capable of climbing such things. Alot of very experienced climbers die every year trying Alpine style ascents of big technical mountains in the Himalaya, Canadian Rockies, etc. And most of them at one time or another in their career get confident to the point where they become naive. I guess that is what we commonly refer to as complacency. I would say that most fatalities in these sports happen for the same reasons you emphasized. . . . .naive people that have not taken the time to truly evaluate the degree of risk involved. . . .on a given day! In some cases these naive people happen to have alot of experience!

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"When I got up to go snowbaording yesterday(18 " fresh) I didn't take a med kit, I didn't alert my friends as to look for me if I don't check in, and I seriously doubt that with over 1000 ski days, I was going to get killed or even hurt. Even with a 1000 jumps...... anything can happen on any jump."

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I think this is a good statement, and really captures the very thing separates BASE from other sports. I also think that this relates to why basehoundsam's girlfriend is having trouble rationalizing the risks associated with BASE. Snowboarding/Skiing is not nearly as dependent on the functionality of gear, as is BASE jumping. I mean yeah, to some extent maybe if you were charging a really big and fast line up in Alaska. . .okay gear is important in that situation. But for the most part, let's face it BASE not only requires flying skills, but also gear thats going to work no matter what. I think it is this concept that makes it so difficult for our families and friends to relate to BASE jumping.

Cheers,

bigwall

[Witold 0]

What you fail to realize is that different people have different levels of risk aversion and tolerance.

It's not that they don't understand. They do understand.

They perceive BASE as dangerous, and rightly so. There are very few sports out there that have the same fatality rate. (even though no scientific figures exist for BASE) Your golf and hunting analogy is inaccurate in that respect.

As such, they think that this level of risk is not worth it for a 'pastime/hobby'. Too much to lose.

BTW, I'm not a base jumper. I'm not even a jumper. This winter I hope to start AFF. Maybe, one day far into the future I will try base.

But as a sportbike rider (road and track) I get the same attitude, for the same reasons. I've watched my buddy die in front of me, and had other friends die or get seriously hurt. I've never been to a trackday where someone hasn't used the ambulance or was medivaced out.

For some people, the benefits out weight the risks. For others, they do not.

[TomAiello 25]

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It's not that they don't understand. They do understand.

I have met a surprisingly large number of newish BASE jumpers who don't understand.

And a disturbing number of BASE "instructors" who don't discuss the risk level at all with their "students".

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

Quote

In Reply To
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It's not that they don't understand. They do understand.

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I have met a surprisingly large number of newish BASE jumpers who don't understand.

I think people cant belive it(will/can),most times people realice it the day they loose a freind or get injuryed(and there are some who did understand all the time).

I were thinking if mentors fail to talk about this as the same reassons i normaly dont ask people to gc me?
I feel that asking people to do so is the same as say"come wach me beeing an badass",which i dont feel.
Perhaps some mentors feel the same to students..telling a person about how dangerus this is could feel like bragging about big balls and shit which most BASE jumpers dont really talk alot about(atleast not about them self)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[RhondaLea 3]

With only five jumps off a bridge, I'm not a base jumper, I'm just someone with five jumps off a bridge.

That being said, I was actively skydiving during the time my daughter was old enough to understand that skydiving is statistically more likely to kill you than a trip to Great Adventure.

She was 11 when she saw one of her friends get badly hurt. She was sixteen when one of her best pals--someone who had been a day-to-day presence in her life for a couple of years--died not 30 feet from where she was sitting. She saw the whole, horrible show from start to finish. In between, and even since, people she knows and cares for have died. (Skypunk comes to mind--consider the effect he would have had on a teenage girl, and how she might feel at his passing.)

My daughter never had any doubt that mommy could get killed, and she knew that no matter how careful I tried to be, shit has a way of happening. Was she scared? Yes. Did she ever try to keep me off the airplane? Never.

But I never tried to persuade Beck that skydiving or BASE (she attended Bridge Day in '96, and she has been present during other BASE trips) is safe. And I never tried to pretend that people do not die or sustain permanent injury jumping.

What I did tell her is that anyone can die at any time, and that the only comfort from statistics is the *idea* that one activity is safer than another.

One of her skydiver friends was killed riding his bicycle. And he wasn't even *riding* the bicycle when he was killed. It was just a freak accident involving an automobile driver who had difficulty figuring out the difference between the road and the sidewalk.

So what my daughter knows is that anything can happen to anyone at any time, and the only real safety any of us possesses is that which we construct inside our own heads. She also knows that if someone isn't doing what they want to do, the whole point of continuing to take breath is lost--i.e., if one spends her entire life doing what someone else thinks is right, proper and good, then whose life is it anyway?

The other side of all this, of course, is taking responsibility for one's actions and the consequences of those actions. Beck knew what would happen to her--where she would go, how her life would be--if something happened to me. And that's usually the biggest issue: "What's going to become of me if you die, are paralyzed, rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills?" For someone who isn't morally or legally bound to another (i.e., a spouse or a child or an ailing parent), long explanations, justifications and so forth are optional--if you feel like arguing for your lifestyle, it's just an exercise. Or at least it should be. Hanging around with people who want to control how you live isn't very healthy in the long run.

On the other hand, if you have made adequate provision for the people in your life who will be impacted by your sudden absence, then the only answer is "this is what I need to do to live, to be happy. It is who I am. And by trying to change me, you condemn me to a different kind of death. One that is slower and far more painful."

The sad fact is that the most controlling people in the world are shockingly deficient in self-control. The converse is also true. But it is often difficult to make another person understand that they have enough to handle in their own life without trying to direct the lives of others.

I've had some bad moments with my daughter, but no one ever said growing up is easy. What I'm really proud of is that she understands the difference between other-control and self-control, and she knows that anyone who tries to force her into their mold of what she should be does not have her best interests at heart.

Finally, if you're trying to explain to a loved one to whom you owe a duty that you should be able to go out and do as you please without regard for their welfare, shame on you.

rl

P.S. I'm not the only one who talked to my daughter about these things. Credit to several of the skydivers at Lousia, Laurel and DeLand, as well as 416 and, most particularly, 193.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Bigwallmaster 0]

I have met a surprisingly large number of newish BASE jumpers who don't understand.

And a disturbing number of BASE "instructors" who don't discuss the risk level at all with their "students".

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Yeah Amen to that Tom. I think there's alot truth in this statment. BASE instructors need to emphasize and re-emphasize that this is not skydiving. As a newcomer to BASE, reading posts in the BASE ZONE and chattin' with people at DZ has really helped me understand that going from skydiving to BASE is like taking a quantum leap in terms of safety, required training, & progression. When it comes to clearly explaining this to my whuffo family and friends I really struggle at doing a good job of trying to justify my actions to them.

J.P.

[TomAiello 25]

It's actually pretty easy to explain to experienced climbers.

"You know the difference between leading and free soloing? Well..."

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Bigwallmaster 0]

It's actually pretty easy to explain to experienced climbers.

"You know the difference between leading and free soloing? Well..."

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. . . . .Yep. That pretty much sums it up!!

J.P.