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Treejumps

The World Famous Miles D

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"Yes it was borrowed gutter gear (Warp 3/Pegasus). "
.......................................

HEY....VisionAir
No need to defend yourself.
That is what Bridgeday is all about.
That is what bridgeday has always been about.

(definition of Bridgeday).....FUN...FUN....and, MORE FUN.

(did I mention bridgeday was about, fun ? )
................................

Excuse the highjack....
Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit :P

Hey... VisionAir
THAT"S THE BEST THING I HAVE READ IN THIS FUCKING THREAD !
.
.

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>>"The one thing we learn is we never learn."<<

By "we" I mean the collective we, as in the entire BASE community.

I, and many others, have seen this too many times. One generation learns the lessons of BASE (the hard way) and then another generation comes along that needs to learn the same lessons over again. (And I know, to you, it sounds like, oh, boy these kids today with their music and . . . )

I'm sorry, but we, the collective we, know more about being new to BASE jumping, and the euphoria and abandon that entails then you do. But we also know more about what comes later after being tempered with our own injuries, and the deaths of so many friends. I hate it when we fight over this thing we all love, but I have to sleep at night. And we couldn't do that if we didn't say anything. My hope is after a few years, I see you sometime Kidwicked, and you want to shake my hand . . . and I want to shake yours.

And as far as Avery goes, he's paid his dues in this sport, and can do whatever the hell he wants. Freedom is earned, not bestowed . . .

NickD :)BASE 194
http://www.basefatalities.info/

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[However, learning BASE through gymnastics and paragliding is like learning to fly a jet plane by learning to fly a canopy or a radio controlled plane]
---------------------------------------------------------
That is very true.

However.....since you brought it up..........with 14 years in the aviation industry, after flying several different types of airplanes and with over 100 hours flying helicopters, I felt that this experience did indeed help me learn to fly a paraglider. And now a base canopy.

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[My only concern is that your satisfaction in the course may be unfounded and once you have a few hundred jumps under your belt you may realize the true danger you were placed in]

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Believe me that I fully felt the danger I put MYSELF in when I stood on that plank the first time. (run soundtrack of 8 yr old girl screaming)

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Hey...VisionAir ... (pretend this is NickDG telling this bit of wisdom to you )
(use his voice to.)

Did ever tell the old story that happened way back when ? You know ?
I remember way back when. There was this Thread on DZcom.

The time, Miles D. got an,....Obscene amount of public of Exposure.

And never had to say a Word. ???

(did I fail to mention that was brilliant ?)

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Whether Daisher (or prancer, or comet, or vixen) is good or bad is perhaps
not the important point of this thread. Supposing someone in BASE is truly bad, what exactly did you think, in reality, hard tacks would or should happen to them? Venting on dropzone is one thing. Dealing with an offender, whoever that is, even supposing that all agreed that said person was an offender, is quite another. Many threads in the past have sidestepped this topic. Self-policing? Uh, No. There is little of this. Lets face it, the legend of Tarring and Feathering is one incident away from being a Myth. If the "really bad man" does show up, he likely will care little for his peers or their bruising commentary. But if, on the other hand, a 6' 9'' 280LB business owner does show up to comment in person, this category is handled by laws on assault, vandelism, kidnapping, and the like. The judge will be unmoved in sentencing you because you were policing the ban on rail bailing.

I do not support Miles, although I have met and jumped with him. I do not support Jimmy's approach to Base, but I know him as well, having watched him arrive on the Lodi scene long ago. And even though I realize the Golden Age of Base is over, I am both "anti commercialism" and "anti expansionism" in what some of the BASE oligarchy consider "advancing" Base. Keeping base simple and closed is "advancement" enough for me, seeing as how "making a buck" seems to drive many of BASE's ethical dilemmas as well as bringing into the sport people who have a frivolous and disrespectful and flippant opinion of Base history, Base and its uniqueness. Expanding BASE should in no way be anyone's goal. Keeping self-indulgent PR efforts, and those that come into the base scene influenced by those efforts at a minimum sounds much better.

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No, you're wrong. His statement was as follows: "The one thing we learn is we never learn."



It's called a self-referencing paradox, like "This statement is false".

Here's an old but sobering image for everyone. Mr. Aiello should make a new thread and mark it sticky because it always seems relevant, but i think he might be too politically correct for that ;).

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Denpar,

I wondered when someone was going to bring this up.

Many shots are fired across the bows of errant jumpers (Kidwicked - I know this will make no sense to you . Jumpers don't have bows. It's a metaphor. Don't worry about it) but apparently the new generation of BASE is not self-policing. Denpar is right. This is myth from yesteryear.

I used to pride myself on being part of an elite group called BASE jumpers. These were guys / girls who you knew you shouldn't make a wager with over a dare. They would do it. Whatever it was. They were not skydivers of any kind when it came to BASE. They were people who threw themselves over the edge. The canopy ride was just a way to slow you down. What was important was that you went further than other people would and for that shining moment between commitment and control, exit and opening, all hell broke loose and you revelled in it. It was about attitude not athleticism, guts not science. No matter how fat, stupid or ugly you were you knew you could make it to the bottom but in order to get there you had to go beyond that point of no return. This is the uniqueness of our activity.

So now you pay and play. No requirements, no qualifications and essentially no exposure to the harsh realities of the sport prior to practicing it. This is where the value is lost.
I myself am more fearful with every jump I make. I'd never have walked down in my first 50. I have no issue with walking down now even if it's just because I'm no longer in the mood to jump. The initial bravado is a very dangerous emotion. It serves a new jumper well to get rid of it as soon as possible if he/she hopes to live longer (it ain't brave if you ain't scared).
I too was blissfully ignorant of some of the aspects of this sport when I began to jump even though I'd researched, studied and trained for around 3 years in preparation. My prep didn't include many skydives at all. They were mostly geared towards BASE, however. I certainly think a certain amount (of the right type) is essential. If I'd know what kind of gnarly-assed objects Skypunk was going to hurl me off I'd have prepped twice as hard and done many more drills.

I would spare any prospective jumper the pain of a jump gone wrong if I could. I've seen the poorly prepared begin to jump and it's awful to watch. They have no idea how close they come to bad accidents. Blissfully unaware of the nature of the risks they are exposed to and the fluidity with which the risk changes in response to every decision and control input made throughout the jump is no way to participate. Risk on a BASE jump is a function of time and that function inflexes at every decision point to give new considerations to the jumper.

There is more to this than falling off a cliff but you can go for years without knowing that. This is why we say skydive before BASE. Just like at school we say learn arithmetic before algebra. The activities are different. The skill set is not transferrable. Why then, is it done?

You are being educated.

The more you learn to integrate skills, adapt to change and familiarize yourself with the characteristics of certain models then more likely you are to be able to extrapolate those skills, self-develop, innovate, adapt and overcome when faced with a situation which is unfamiliar. Nobody can teach you how to fix a 180 with lineover as you fly next to a waterfall. We don't have that ability. Therefore, you must prepare yourself as well as you can so that if that ever happens you immediately react in a way which creates a downturn in the risk or exposure level.
Why does the army insist you run the obstacle course in training? Do they really have walls with ropes draped over them in Afghanistan? Same reason. The obstacles are different but your strategy must be clear to you quickly and you must react appropriately. This will keep you alive. At the risk of driving Kidwicked insane...expect the unexpected.

So back to the point.

All of us who preach ethics are at fault. We are the whining public baying for blood and we sit on our hands and bitch on the net. We have appealed to the morality of those displaying poor traits and, ignored by our those we saught to reach, we have been inactive, benign and basically, we are now their bitches.

The old school were men of action. They changed things.

The new school appear to have their pants round their ankles.

Unless we change the behavior, not only proactively by acting as role models but also reactively by active self-policing, the culture will not change and the current culture is headed for disaster. We can help. We can each do our bit.

It's time we looked after our own. For their own sakes.

So please, when it you feel the stickiness in your hair and you look up and one of us is emptying a pillow over your head, remember...

We're doing this because we love you.

;)
$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

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For many of you, base jumping is still a hobby


i would say lifestyle:)

Quote

for Miles it is a profession. I doubt he would walk into your workplace and demean you in front of potential customers, business partners, etc.


actualy i hope he would. if i were making the mistake i feel Miles are making by letting people whith 0 experience in flying canopyes,taste BASE whith out ending the education then i think its dangerus.I dont like the idea if one of thouse people dies or get injuryed becourse they think theyre BASEjumping after a few jumps off a S whith no place to hurt them self.

In DK people pretty much jump A´s all the time were you can hit the tower wires or not see the landingarea due night..It would be BAD to DK BASE to get such a person back home were your forced to teach him/her or they will huck them self off somewere and might burn the object..

I do respect Miles as a person and for his dreams,but this is just against my etics and i would say the same to Nick,Tom Dexter,even Skin(and all others) if it were them doing the same.So dont say its becours of that im jaloux that he makes a few buck...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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No, you're wrong.



Perhaps. Why don't you research it and get back to me:

Willard Van Orman Quine
Critical Thinking on the Web
Attacking Faulty Reasoning: A Practical Guide to Fallacy-Free Arguments

with particular attention to:

Conversational Terrorism

I also highly recommend you read Robert A. Heinlein's discussion of the illogic of language in his novella "Gulf."


On the other hand, you don't have to do any of that, really, because we all know you're just being a smart ass.

rl [#669999]
If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

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...I highly recommend Miles D.'s BASE camp. He was very professional and extremely safe with us.



Can you tell us your basis for comparison in making this judgment? Have you seen or participated in any other BASE training courses?

Thanks!
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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I was impressed with Miles conscientious... almost anal approach to pack job, gear inspection, pre- jump checks, site / landing inspection.



Can you tell us what your basis of comparison for this judgment was? How many other BASE jumpers have you observed or jumped with to compare their techniques? Have you observed or participated in any other BASE training programs?

Thanks!
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Well everyone,
After thousands of views on this thread and many, many well-worded and thought provoking replies, I think we can all agree that it's official....

MILES DAISHER IS A WORLD FAMOUS BASE JUMPER!

Since all the while we have been discussing this, Miles has been at the local swimming pool practising new tricks off a diving board such as full twisting double-double fronts and won't be available for a reply, I'd like to thank a few people on his behalf; without whom none of this would have been possible:

Mr. Tree Jumps. Good job starting this thread. I have to admit, at first I didn't know where you were going with it. I hear that Miles would like to take you out for beer next time you're in Twin.

Mr. Tom Aiello. Once again you have facilitated an informative and timely discussion. And your intermittant little quips,-to many to mention here-BRAVO!

BASE 704, 813, and 570. Thank you

Also Nick DG, Kid Wicked, Badenhop, Whatever, leroy db, and many others thanks for taking part in this momentous occasion.

I don't know about anyone else, but I need a cigarette.

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I must agree, what a great time. Sniff sniff, reminds of the good ole bitch board. I'm glad to hear that Miles is training; there is always hope for everyone. I'll take him up on that beer this April, and accept it as tuition for my base areobatics course. We just may be able to get his rotations on axis yet.

Did you save your house from that parking ticket? :P

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BASE 704, 813, and 570. Thank you



Yo jimmyh...

You might want to look back at what I've contributed to this thread thus far, before you go "thanking" me...

Hugs and kisses,
-704
You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

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Actually I would bet that most high end gymnasts would pick up base much more quickly than the average jhoe shmoe. Spatial awareness can go a long way when you need to be accurate with your movements and reactions.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

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"Yes it was borrowed gutter gear (Warp 3/Pegasus). "
.......................................

HEY....VisionAir
No need to defend yourself.
That is what Bridgeday is all about.
That is what bridgeday has always been about.

(definition of Bridgeday).....FUN...FUN....and, MORE FUN.

Quote

and don't forget the carnage not to be seen at your normal BASE locations!

(did I mention bridgeday was about, fun ? )
................................

Excuse the highjack....
Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit :P

Hey... VisionAir
THAT"S THE BEST THING I HAVE READ IN THIS FUCKING THREAD !

YES, ABSOLUTELY!!!!

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