Faber 0
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What I don't understand about this part of the discussion, is what is the big fear of a tailgate hang up? Am I missing something? Did someone almost die from using a black banded tailgate appropriately? I have not heard of one single instance of this, so I'm confused as to why everyone is so adamant that the black bands on the tailgate is a bad idea. Please enlighten me; I need this information. Thank you.
Karen:
I'm not aware of any fatalities, yet.
I'm not concerned about a total malfunction, I'm concerned about hesitation on a low jump. Has it happened? I think it probably has. Whether or not the jumper realized what happened is another story.
Has it been documented? I don't know, but theoretically it could. I'm not going to wait for a fatality before I take the risk seriously. YMMV.
The environmental concerns occured to me. I think a happy compromise would be girth hitching a small brown rubber band. I'd imagine that this is safer, and generally, even a broken band that's been girth hitched will stay with the gear.
It's what I usually do. If I'm doing an ultra low jump, I won't even girth hitch it, just for extra peace of mind.
A side note:
FWIW I don't doubt the motives of any manufacturer so far. We're all in this for fun, but it's a complex game with a steep learning curve and huge penalties for screwing up. It is the nature of the sport.
I'm sure every one of us is clueless about something that others take for granted. That's why this forum is so valuable.
-Josh
If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.
peterk 0
What is the big fear of a tailgate hang up? DEATH or serious injury!
I don't think anyone is saying that you will die using a black tailgate band. I think the growing concensus is that you can die from a black rubber band, (I think we established that they suck for skydiving, and really suck for BASE). In fact, I will never use a rubber band on any of my gear, except for the primary stow for slider up. I am going to use masking tape for my tailgate, just taping the lines together.
I remember reading about the environmental impact of jumpers trashing objects with bands. Not only are they really small and natural color, but I have walked the bottom of Tstone several times to check, and found three bands that looked like rubber bands left in the sun for a year. They broke into pieces when I picked them up. And I was staring at the ground walking for a half hour, at perhaps one of the most jumped cliffs in the world. I actually can't believe that I am discussing on the internet about the use of black bands saving the environment, when they serve NO advantage at all, and have met several jumpers who have had tailgate hangups, because of the black super bands.
If saving the environment, one rubber band at a time is such a concern that it overrides your instinctive desire to not get killed, do your thing. But I am going to carry a packet of flower seeds from Home Depot, and sprinkle them at the landing areas to counteract the rubber bands and masking tape that I leave behind, until they biodegrade in the sun anyways...
Seriously, what is the fascination with black rubber bands in BASE?
I don't think anyone is saying that you will die using a black tailgate band. I think the growing concensus is that you can die from a black rubber band, (I think we established that they suck for skydiving, and really suck for BASE). In fact, I will never use a rubber band on any of my gear, except for the primary stow for slider up. I am going to use masking tape for my tailgate, just taping the lines together.
I remember reading about the environmental impact of jumpers trashing objects with bands. Not only are they really small and natural color, but I have walked the bottom of Tstone several times to check, and found three bands that looked like rubber bands left in the sun for a year. They broke into pieces when I picked them up. And I was staring at the ground walking for a half hour, at perhaps one of the most jumped cliffs in the world. I actually can't believe that I am discussing on the internet about the use of black bands saving the environment, when they serve NO advantage at all, and have met several jumpers who have had tailgate hangups, because of the black super bands.
If saving the environment, one rubber band at a time is such a concern that it overrides your instinctive desire to not get killed, do your thing. But I am going to carry a packet of flower seeds from Home Depot, and sprinkle them at the landing areas to counteract the rubber bands and masking tape that I leave behind, until they biodegrade in the sun anyways...
Seriously, what is the fascination with black rubber bands in BASE?
---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime
wzettler 0
faber: is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1364
I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1364
I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.
Faber 0
nope it were from a tower
Stay safe
Stefan Faber
Stay safe
Stefan Faber
peterk 0
I actually just did a search for the same thing a couple minutes ago. I honestly don't understand why someone would endanger themselves when it is quickly becoming documented worldwide that only bad (very bad) things can, and DO, happen using these black bands, in skydiving and especially BASE...
These malfunctions are only the ones that have video, during dawn/dusk, with skilled jumpers who can analyze this stuff and post them on the internet...
These malfunctions are only the ones that have video, during dawn/dusk, with skilled jumpers who can analyze this stuff and post them on the internet...
---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime
base311 0
QuoteIf saving the environment, one rubber band at a time is such a concern that it overrides your instinctive desire to not get killed, do your thing. But I am going to carry a packet of flower seeds from Home Depot, and sprinkle them at the landing areas to counteract the rubber bands and masking tape that I leave behind, until they biodegrade in the sun anyways...
Seriously, what is the fascination with black rubber bands in BASE?
I talked to a guy named Rick at Keener (the mil-spec rubberband manuf.) today and - while he was unable to say _exactly_ how long it would take for a band to degrade, he did go as far as saying approx. 2-3 years. The issue for them is that their bands need to perform to a certain standard that is contrary to biodegredation. That said, he did tell me that higher UV exposure and lower humidity will accelerate the process, so (at least at the pizza rock and others) the process is quicker in the higher altitude, arid climes. As you mentioned, you had a hard time finding bands. I have looked before and found many many bands. I don't know if you were just looking in the wrong place or if someone (or some group) had done a rubber band clean-up day. Either way, the bands are rapidly (in terms of geologic time) reduced to clay and basic organic compounds in relatively short order.
I am guessing your plan to plant flowers from Home Depot seedpacks is purely tongue-in-cheek. If not, and you did intend to do that to offset your guilty conscience, why not just go up and look around and pick up whatever bands you can find. Planting (possibly) alien seeds on public lands may not be such a good idea, from an environmental standpoint (and I don't purport to be an expert). Nice to know you care, though.
BSBD,
Gardner
P.S. On the Keener Material Safety Data Sheet for natural rubber, I got tickled by the "Cleanup Procedures"
To wit:
CLEANUP PROCEDURES:
Sweep, shovel, vacuum into container for disposal. Incinerate or landfill in accordance with all applicable environmental control regulations; not a hazardous material.
K763 0
I think you know a Belgium dude who were really lucky not to get hurt on a tailgate hang up on black rubberbands.This were spoken about aprox 1 year ago.
Yes, I'm very familiar with this incident; I saw the video. The jumper took 3 wraps on the tailgate for a very low static line jump. The opening forces were not enough to blow the 3 wraps off the tailgate; he pumped his brakes which opened the tailgate and he flared and landed. This is a situation where the packing was at fault, not the band. This jumper had no training and no mentor. THIS WAS NOT A BAND PROBLEM. IT WAS A PACKING PROBLEM.
Two wraps of the band would have been sufficient.
Please don't assume that I am trying to push the black rubber bands for use in BASE. I could care less what everyone uses as long as it works. The black band has worked on the tailgate flawlessly for years, and I still have not heard of a legitimate instance where the band was at fault for a hang up. Yet I see the black bands being demonized because people did not use them appropriately. It's starting to feel like a witch hunt, which is what I'm trying to avoid here. We need to use common sense, know our equipment, components, and accessories, and use them in the manner they were intended. Personally, I will continue to use the black bands on my tailgate because they work, they last, and have enough of the buggers to last me the rest of my life. I am NOT into littering our precious sites with rubber bands that take decades to biodegrade.
I will be changing the Multi Sheath stow bands in my containers for the beige "barely there" bands, however.
Peace,
K
Yes, I'm very familiar with this incident; I saw the video. The jumper took 3 wraps on the tailgate for a very low static line jump. The opening forces were not enough to blow the 3 wraps off the tailgate; he pumped his brakes which opened the tailgate and he flared and landed. This is a situation where the packing was at fault, not the band. This jumper had no training and no mentor. THIS WAS NOT A BAND PROBLEM. IT WAS A PACKING PROBLEM.
Two wraps of the band would have been sufficient.
Please don't assume that I am trying to push the black rubber bands for use in BASE. I could care less what everyone uses as long as it works. The black band has worked on the tailgate flawlessly for years, and I still have not heard of a legitimate instance where the band was at fault for a hang up. Yet I see the black bands being demonized because people did not use them appropriately. It's starting to feel like a witch hunt, which is what I'm trying to avoid here. We need to use common sense, know our equipment, components, and accessories, and use them in the manner they were intended. Personally, I will continue to use the black bands on my tailgate because they work, they last, and have enough of the buggers to last me the rest of my life. I am NOT into littering our precious sites with rubber bands that take decades to biodegrade.
I will be changing the Multi Sheath stow bands in my containers for the beige "barely there" bands, however.
Peace,
K
I think you know a Belgium dude who were really lucky not to get hurt on a tailgate hang up on black rubberbands.This were spoken about aprox 1 year ago.
Mail me if you dont know who im speaking about..
I dont birther to find the treads but guess people should search under "larkshead" on Blinc im sure youll find some about this.
Black rubberbands has showen on SL and PCA that they can make hangups..even if you dont larksheard them..
Stay safe
Stefan Faber
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