Rubber bands?!

[jalisco 0]

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...but [maybe] there was some gear fear...

I think that's an important "but" -- in my very very limited experience, seems like I have seen a few people take short/no delays in response to gear- or exit-point-nervousness, and I'm thinking that it's often the wrong response. I saw a few shrivel flaps take their time peeling after go and throws last weekend. Seems like a little speed can improve deployment by increasing instantaneous loading (snatch), and, of course, a little time puts you further from the object, both in terms of your trajectory, and sometimes because of the shape of the overhang. So, taking a little more delay improves your chances of a good deployment, even though it might seem counter-intuitive (since it's leaving you a little less time).

Maybe I'm either stating the obvious, or am mistaken somehow -- either case, maybe I'll learn from your responses.

[base704 0]

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but, it was borrowed gear packed by someone else, not great wind conditions. So I think (can't speak for P) there was some gear fear there too.

One would think that the above would be enough to keep ones' feet on the rock...

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

[nicknitro71 0]

A buddy of mine rented a Vertex and a Flik for BD. The canopy had the multi. When I was packing it I noticed the rubber bands (black) inside the container. So I grabbed the manual and found out there were the stow for the multi. The first thing that came into my mind was WTF! IMO stowing a bridle is asking for a death sentance in the BASE enviroment. I told the guy that I was only going to pack it with the bridle free-stowed and I removed the bands just in case he got ideas.

I don't like the multi: to me it maks absolute no sense.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Faber 0]

Hey mate,If i didnt got any by any of my packs could you then throug 2-3 bags of them in. we cant get them here

sure we find out a way

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

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When it comes to SL jumps I don't think the advantage of the multi is theoretical. The force which is required to break 80lb break cord is spread over four attachment points, so less strain/wear on your canopy at the attachment points.

thanks for posting my point
also i like the fact that the canopy is pulled up in 4 places rather than 1 sure it can prevent center cell stripping.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

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A buddy of mine rented a Vertex and a Flik for BD. The canopy had the multi. When I was packing it I noticed the rubber bands (black) inside the container. So I grabbed the manual and found out there were the stow for the multi. The first thing that came into my mind was WTF! IMO stowing a bridle is asking for a death sentance in the BASE enviroment. I told the guy that I was only going to pack it with the bridle free-stowed and I removed the bands just in case he got ideas.

I don't like the multi: to me it maks absolute no sense.

so you dont like the multi becourse of the rubberbands e´vry one says not to use?? that dont make sense.. You can easily use the multi whith out rubberbands just do whith the bridel as your used to.

I have freefallen 230 ft whith the multi closed(no rubberbands as i NEVER use them on the multi),using a 46 ´AV ZP pc whith no problems(i even did 6 of thouse jumps in 2 days)

Usaly i dont close the multi sub 250ft just like i open the pin flap on my Vertex sub 250ft(somtimes from 300).

One thing to considder is that i might(just me thinking out loud)think that a multi might could pull your canopy more offheadding in the case your unstabel as you pull,but i dunno if that thinking is wrong...

Im a big speaker of the multi its one of the reassons i jump Fox and Flik but i also cán see some of the cons from it...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 26]

In BASE, often deeper delays can be safer. It's very object dependent, and it's one of the things that makes skydiving mentality dangerous in BASE.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[BASE813 0]

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also i like the fact that the canopy is pulled up in 4 places rather than 1 sure it can prevent center cell stripping.

my question is center cell stripping really that bad??? My views are reflected in recent posts...........

[tfelber 0]

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taking a little more delay improves your chances of a good deployment, even though it might seem counter-intuitive

I noticed jumping a Flik293 with VTEC from a heli a couple of weeks ago that if I would just wait a second longer the opening shock was greatly increased, meaning more energy dissipated over less time or faster opening. I have no way to compare time to distance.

For my first 6 or so jumps I was leaving a plane or waiting until I felt the air in my face from the heli before dumping and there was a noticeable jerk as the canopy inflated and then a settling as the slider came down and the air pressure inside vs. outside the canopy stabilized.

One jump I left at 2k and threw when I felt the air go calm, equillibrium between my fall rate and the rotor wind, and the opening shock from the inital inflation didn't happen. I looked over my shoulder to make sure I didn't have a problem and the canopy was filling with air, but not like the previous jumps.

While I know it took noticeably longer to inflate I don't have any quantitative data regarding the distance traveled.

A chart relating fall rate and distance traveled during opening for different canopies/configurations would be interesting.

[outrager 6]

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I think that's an important "but" -- in my very very limited experience, seems like I have seen a few people take short/no delays in response to gear- or exit-point-nervousness, and I'm thinking that it's often the wrong response.

A correct action in BASE is often counterintuitive. Most skydivers have a reflex to pull when things look low or crappy. Reflexes takes over logic under stressful conditions. Most BASE jumps create such conditions before they even begin, hence a common but very dangerous practice of dirty high pulls.

As Tom pointed out, safest delays depend on a particular site, but more often than not it will be close to the maximum delay possible. Object strike is a leading cause of death, so maximizing your distance from an object by taking the longest delay possible is often the best course of action. It also looks damn cool

Choosing the safest delay for a specific site is a perfect example of risk management, where conflicting considerations need to be balanced: object separation vs. altitude required for canopy opening, turning an off-heading and making LZ.

Now thinking about it, this is really funny: i usually take it lower when i'm scared. My reflexes have been completly reprogrammed over the years...

bsbd!

Yuri.

[meekerboy 0]

'taking the longest delay possible'

And then some in the case of Yuri my friend. It was fun watching ur slider coming down ur lines in Ostankino as you went past the tree-line into the lake.

Meeker

[pullhigh 0]

Not directly intended for meeker, but...

Am I supposed to be scared just reading some of this stuff?

Ganja

[Rauk 0]

Sometimes the animal inside... well, you know.

[DexterBase 1]

Exactly.

[KidWicked 0]

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As Tom pointed out, safest delays depend on a particular site, but more often than not it will be close to the maximum delay possible.

Has anyone who's good at math calculated the increase in distance from an object when taking various length delays?

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[DexterBase 1]

That would entirely depend on object profile and your launch.

[pBASEtobe 0]

I tried that recently but found out the formula I was using wouldn't work. I've been meaning to look for the right formula but havent' had time. Maybe I'll try this weekend. If I ever figure it out I'll post my results.

[KidWicked 0]

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That would entirely depend on object profile and your launch.

Object profile: within the mathematical model you could assume it was vertical (which certainly holds true of most B's, all A's, and many E's).

Launch: you could measure a standing jump and extrapolate from there.

I didn't say I knew enough math to do it, only that it is most likely possible to create a reasonable model.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[LouYoung 0]

Someone has done it somewhere. I don't remember if I read it on Blinc or here.

Someone assumed the average person launches at 3.2 mph at an angle of 30 degrees (or whatever; I'm making those numbers up) and they figured out the persons tragectory so they could find the distance from the object on different delays.

Do some searching and it might pop back up.

Actually, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Find out your horizontal speed on one of your normal exits and use that to find out the distance horizontally you've traveled after each second. Should be accurate to 3 or 4 seconds until air resistance slows your horizontal movement. At those slow speeds, it shouldn't affect you too much in the shorter delays (where tracking won't help anyway).

Lou

[pBASEtobe 0]

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...the increase in distance from an object...

Oh, you meant the horizontal distance, not vertical.

[BASE864 0]

Thanks for the great discussion on this. I've been using the black bands on my TG with no problems...so far. Also demo'd a multi in Moab and stowed it in the container with the black bands....and lived. Guess I was just lucky for those 8 jumps. I'll be throwing away all my black bands and using the brown ones.

Later,
BASE864

[KidWicked 0]

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...the increase in distance from an object...

Oh, you meant the horizontal distance, not vertical.

Yup, as it tends to be the one that kills you (more people die from object strike than impact).

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[Rauk 0]

"All A's"

What about freestanders? They protrude out further the lower you get.

[peterk 0]

Yup, so I had a pilot chute in tow, as a result of a multi-band hangup. It was at the frozen pizza cliff, BR Prism, Fox 245, 42”, ¾ sec delay handheld. I ran off, pitched uneventfully, and nothing happened, except things got noisy and I got some really sweet ground rush into those rocks at the bottom… Right about when I was about to hit, I felt the rubber band break, and it felt like at Six Flags, when you get that drop into the harness and the ride was over… The canopy opened great, the canopy flight was normal, and the only damage was taken care of by Rauk lending me a pair of clean underwear… I still need to give those back…

Don’t have a lot to say about most of this. Although I spend most of my time at work trying to avoid it, there isn’t a lot to say about this. I would hate to smash into the rocks because of a stupid, black rubber band. If I took a longer delay, it might not have happened, since I was going to do another gainer, but I don’t think that a 50/50 chance for impact are good odds, unless you delay over 1 second using that setup…

If you have a multi, I would strongly recommend thinking about the stowage of the multi lines, either using the sheath, or brown bands. And if there are any BR reps on here, I think it would be a good idea to let a shout out and let people know what BR recommends for the multi setup.

That shiznit was scary…

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[Skydawg 0]

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Thanks for the great discussion on this. I've been using the black bands on my TG with no problems...so far. Also demo'd a multi in Moab and stowed it in the container with the black bands....and lived. Guess I was just lucky for those 8 jumps. I'll be throwing away all my black bands and using the brown ones.

Don't use any stows, black or otherwise on the multi, just s-fold it nicely