Rubber bands?!

[3ringheathen 0]

I just read that a pc in tow might have been caused by the use of black rubber bands on the multi stows.

For those that don't know, black rubber bands tend to be much stronger, much more difficult to break. This isn't necessarily a good thing.

I'm casting one emphatic vote for *not* using anything other than your basic brown 'standard' skydiving rubber bands on any component where failure to release could be fatal.
Small or large, or cut in half as needed is ok.

That pretty much excludes black rubber bands from use in BASE jumping.

That's my personal, but strongly held opinion, FWIW.

Thoughts?
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[TomAiello 25]

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I'm casting one emphatic vote for *not* using anything other than your basic brown 'standard' skydiving rubber bands on any component where failure to release could be fatal.

Two votes.

I stopped using the black rubber bands altogether a while back.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pBASEtobe 0]

Hmm...I've been using a black rubberband, not cut in half, on my tailgate. Although I only do two wraps. Not a good idea?

[TomAiello 25]

Certainly a bad idea for PCA. BR/Apex no longer recommends that. I'd use the brown ones, cut in half.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[bps 0]

Three votes against black rubber bands. (for BASE)

I didn't like the black rubber bands when they came out a couple of years ago and have not used them after seeing the pull force required to break them.

Bryan

[base428 1]

I vote against the multi itself. I still fail to see the overall advantages of the multi, which appears to be partly to blame here. Too many looped catch points, extra rubber bands and packing procedures, etc.

Old Multi Post

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[DexterBase 0]

I played with a black band for about thiry seconds before throwing the whole bag in the garbage. I wouldn't even keep them around the house for use on other non-BASE stuff. Just in case I was out of standard small rubberbands and would be tempted to use one, "just this once."

They're too strong and don't have a place in BASE. Throw them away.

If you're using them, throw them away, PM me your address and I'll send you some standard bands. I feel that strongly about this.

I almost lost a good friend over this. Throw them away.

[outrager 6]

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I vote against the multi itself. I still fail to see the overall advantages of the multi, which appears to be partly to blame here. Too many looped catch points, extra rubber bands and packing procedures, etc.

I'm with Jason on this one. Multi sucks. Specificaly, the very real inconvenience and potential dangers of multi outweigh theoretical advantages. Multi has been around for many years and yet no statisticaly important improvements (compared to a non-multi canopy) have been proven or even seen.

Black rubber bands are black death - an easy guess at the very first look

bsbd!

Yuri.

[TomAiello 25]

Another Multi Discussion.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pBASEtobe 0]

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Certainly a bad idea for PCA. BR/Apex no longer recommends that. I'd use the brown ones, cut in half.

The little brown ones almost the same size as the black ones or the bigger brown ones used more as closing loops for skydiving d-bags?

Wow, I'm glad this discussion came up. I was so pleased with myself not long ago about the number of black rubberbands I was able to scrounge up. Time wasted I suppose.

[RayLosli 11]

I agree that a Multi, may be a unnecessary additive in the mechanical mix for BASE.
My motto has always been:..".Less, is More."
Everybody always has to have, more, more ,more potential complications.

Got to say that I have always used Black, Rubber bands since the day they came
out for Tail Gate..... Never had a Problem.

Never owned a Multi set-up / Never jumped a Multi, set-up...

[DexterBase 0]

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Got to say that I have always used Black, Rubber bands since the day they came
out for Tail Gate..... Never had a Problem.

Then Spence was right. You're next buddy.

[DexterBase 0]

They're the ones you'd use to stow microline on your d-bag. Just buy a bag from your DZ. I usually have a bag or two around at any one time.

[skreamer 1]

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Specificaly, the very real inconvenience and potential dangers of multi outweigh theoretical advantages.

When it comes to SL jumps I don't think the advantage of the multi is theoretical. The force which is required to break 80lb break cord is spread over four attachment points, so less strain/wear on your canopy at the attachment points.

Will

[BASE813 0]

from what I remember (maybe incorrectly) the black bands have been on a couple of tailgate hang ups. - I would not use black bands on my tailgate.

I have not been a fan of the multi, as I dont see the benefits out weigh the added complexity and added "shit" to a simple deployment system.

People talk of better on heading deployments, or lack of center cell stripping which may cause added problems due to the distortion of the pack job - but I beleive on headings / off headings are more prone to body position and wind direction and strength than whether you have a multi or single attachment point. As for distortion of the pack job, using the right PC for the delay you are doing, non ZP canopies, usually discounts any center cell strip (someone may like to argue against this), I am not well knowledged in terminal deployments, but I assume that due to the possible speed of deployment at terminal center cell strip is more likely - but does the multi "noticably" make a difference with these sorts of deployments?

Is the wear on the canopy with a single attachment point on a SL jump compared to a multi something really worth noting? I again dont know much about SL jumps so I am only asking the question.

Using black bands on TG's to me is something I dont wish to do, and using a multi with the added shit and hassle - well I still dont see that the advantages out weigh the added hassle.

In the end we only encourage a canopy to open in a certain way. and in the end I dont know shit and keep asking questions........ the way I see it, people use multis, people use black bands, and because they have no problems with them they like them. We all just like what makes us happy on the exit point.

[Han-Solo 0]

the pc-in-tow incident mentioned was caused by the multi bridle being stowed in black rubber band loops. i think this used to be a packing procedure advised by gear manyufacturers (b.r.). at least my own vertex came with loops for multi bridle stowe attachment points. and rubber bands attached...
if you think about it, it's totally crazy to jump a setup like that (i did about ten, before it hit me), no matter what kind of rubber bands you use. would you ever consider strapping anything to your bridle, multi or not? it's common procedure to do a pin check before exit, but what is the point if you have an attachment point right after the pins?

the pc that was used has been tested in a wind tunnel later, and showed to bee in good condition. nevertheless it stayed in tow from about two seconds, to the rubber band snapped at about four seconds. good thing the altitude was there. the pc testing showed at that speed (after four sec.) a force around 400N. any rubber band on the bridle would exceed the pin tension by far in this situation.

never strap your bridle to anything with any kind of rubber band.

[pullhigh 0]

Thanks for the post, the life you saved might have been mine...

When I bought my rig last year, it came with those black rubber bands, and I really liked the feel and texture of them. I ran out of them and had been using the brown ones, but just kept forgetting to order some of the black ones. I sure enough would have bought some if I had seen them laying around somewhere. Now I know better.

It has me wondering about one of my openings though, 220' pca from a B, I seemed to open lower than normal, I wonder if it might have been a factor... I guess I'll never know for sure. Maybe TJ didn't give me a freefall assist afterall....

Ganja

[TomAiello 25]

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The little brown ones almost the same size as the black ones

Those.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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When it comes to SL jumps I don't think the advantage of the multi is theoretical. The force which is required to break 80lb break cord is spread over four attachment points, so less strain/wear on your canopy at the attachment points.

BASE bridle attachments are very over-reinforced, though. I've put more than 100 static lines on a single canopy, and never had any attachment point wear issues.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JohnnyUtah 0]

Mr Han-Solo makes an excellent point. I think the main lesson learned from this jump should be:

Do not rubber band your bridle anywhere. While the multi is sheathed, it is basically an extension of your bridle.

I have never owned a multi set up, so my experience with the multi is limited, but I have seen multi-users s-fold the multi freely instead of using the rubber bands.

I dont like black rubber bands either.
I think this kind of PC in tow can happen with any color rubber band.

Have Fun, Don't Die!
Johnny Utah
My Website
email:[email protected]

[skreamer 1]

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BASE bridle attachments are very over-reinforced, though. I've put more than 100 static lines on a single canopy, and never had any attachment point wear issues.

Cool, good feedback from the field (especially considering my new canopy is a Troll). Looking forward to reply re. brake settings on low SL jumps PM I sent you.

[Faber 0]

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BR/Apex no longer recommends that.

since?? i just got a pack whith tailgate rubberbands and shit and i got them black once... i never used them and never will.

I use the small brown rubberbands from skyworld cuttede in half..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[base704 0]

Although I'm not second guessing the "black rubber band", or "multi" theories, (I personally have never liked either), I find it odd that no one has mentioned the delay...

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This particular situation ended in a hand held 1/2 second jump turning into a 3 1/2 second pilot chute tow.

Now...Just for sake of discussion, if there was enough altitude for a happy ending after a 3 1/2 second p/c in tow, is it possible that a longer delay (and a little more airspeed) might have made a difference?

base704
ncbase4

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

[hookitt 0]

Sure it's possible. I watched the PC in tow and the parachute finally deployed 3/4s of the way down a 400 foot wall. If he'd taken 2 seconds it MIGHT not have hung up. On a 300 foot wall, (which is very common in Moab) he would be dead.

So would it matter of he took a delay? I don't know. The rubber band didn't release the bridle, the rubberband broke. It was no longer attached to the rig so the evidence was on the talus where the point of impact would have been.

The multi stows are the same as using a hesitater loop for a skydiving reserve. Hesitator loops are no longer used in the skydiving world so using a hesitater loop in the BASE world seems like a very bad idea. I thought that to be the case the first time I saw a multi stow. I've never used one and couldn't possibly suggest ever using the multi stow. If that multi really needs to go somewhere, then just put a flap of fabric inside the container where the multi stows would be and place it under it. It won't interfere with the bridle and a less than tidy or knowledgable packer will at least know how to cleanly contain the sheath.

The stows are there only to keep the Multi from interfering with the top of the canopy during deployment. It's only a problem with improperly controlled placement of the multi and the canopy.

Black rubber bands are way to strong. They've been known to cause problems on skydiving rigs. The sheath is a whole lot grabbier than microline so it stands to reason that black bands for a multi shouldn't have been suggested in the first place. My opinion is they shouldn't be there at all.

I don't use a multi so have no opinion about the actual device other than theoretical.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Rauk 0]

Absolutely I think. With more initial snatch from a nice 2 second delay, it may have popped right off... but, it was borrowed gear packed by someone else, not great wind conditions. So I think (can't speak for P) there was some gear fear there too.