Opinions about all the new blood getting into BASE

[BASE813 0]

When I was looking to get into BASE, I spent a bit of time looking into it and gained the minimum FJC requirements - I then met up with some UK jumpers for a bit of a piss up. I met people who were on crutches, or had serious injuries from cliff stikes once and also met them as skydivers who had way more experience than myself. After that day I realised that I was in no way prepared for the sport.

I went away for another 2 years and learnt as much as I could and spent time doing CRW, Accuracy, learning about flying canopies and even having fun freeflying! - I forgot about BASE for a while and just concentrated on knowledge gaining - then one day I felt ready.

The FJC rocked my world, and then my BASE journey began. I was out every weekend and mid-week evening travelling around looking for objects, scoping objects and generally building up my knowledge of what I percieved BASE to be. I did this for 3 months without jumping, I spent time hooking up with jumpers and even took experienced jumpers to an object I had found, scoped out and then took them to jump.

I soon realised that in the UK the FJC did not prepare me for what it was all about - I even realised that although with 500 skydives and 6 months of only CRW and accuracy jumps my canopy skills were still lacking in the BASE environment in the UK. Even so, I still foolishly jumped some pretty hardcore objects and managed to walk away without incidents - this was done all on the wave of newbie excitment. I got to a point where I took a check of myself and had to say "whoa, slow it down"

Although I deem my approach to the sport as sensible, I still got carried away and did stupid shit - hey even in my sensible jumping I ended up smashing my leg up badly, having 6 months off work before loosing my job and having alot of time to reflect.

But at least I can sit happy knowing I put in a fuck load of work to get to where I am sitting on my arse busted up.

Now I see jumpers coming through, not really looking into BASE, paying some cash, getting a rig and doing a FJC and then returning to the UK wanting to jump - a few I have spoken too have not scoped out objects, or even found the objects really close to them - they want everything fucking spoon fed to them. No time or no effort to put in any time at all - they want it like skydiving - fucking easy! - and the sad thing is this is increasing.

BASE is way too accessable to skydivers who can come back not really understanding what BASE is like in a country like the UK. I understand that FJC's are there to stop people going out and doing stupid shit themselves, but this has the effect that people are also not bothering to put in the years of time and effort before they even step off the edge. Quickdraw is the only person I have spoken too that has put in an incredible amount of time and thought into what he wants to do, it would have been easier for him to bash out his 250 skydives and do a FJC and then start looking into it, but he has not - he has thought deeply about what BASE means.

I have always had an issue with BD, in that although i know most people see it as a different beast to BASE, what about the 100 jump skydiver who thinks that he is now a BASE jumper?

I knew a guy who decided to SL himself off a 120ft crane without ANY BASE knowledge and luckily he survived with hurting his ankles.

BASE is not skydiving, and it certainly requires many more thoughts than just getting a rig, doing a course and making some jumps - its fucking hard work - it can change your life in ways you never thought about.

How to you control this? I have no idea, the only thing is you can try and talk to newbies and explain how it is - but in the end, it wont stop people paying their money and expecting everything spoon fed and easy.........

Enough of this, I have way toooooooo much time on my hands...............

[evilivan 0]

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Your proposal is at odds with economic forces, and therefore it would not survive.

Firstly, BASE equipment manufacturers benefit from having more people in the sport, therefore they have an economic incentive to create more BASE jumpers through training.

There is also the free market principle that if a service is desired, a service provider will come forward to provide that service (c.f. Tom's "tanning man" scenario).

Yep, you are of course absolutely right; although I think if you ask those offering the course why they do (considering the level of responsibility they take on, both during the course and in reputation once they release the new "BASE jumper"), I imagine they would cite their reasons close to how I described in an earlier post.

I think its a case of long term and short term thinking; short term thinking gives you your money now, but if that jumper quits after a year its unlikely they will be recommending more people your way (and may even blame your course for them quitting) or continue to buy gear from you. If you have better control over who enters the sport, you would hopefully gain jumpers who stay jumping and objects that stay accessable - both of which should generate more sales and more recommendations.

That said, BASE by its very nature is a sport that attracts free thinkers, and as the above suggestion is pretty much regulation it will probably never work. But the current situation means that local experienced jumpers are less and less likely to help out the newbies in their area, thereby reducing the amount of information and experience being passed around - and I think we all agree that a FJC goes no way near providing the information you need to be a competent BASE jumper.

Evolution will take place, and the current situation will develop into some kind of status quo. The question is: do we want to try and influence it, or just let it happen naturally?

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[TomAiello 25]

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Solution? I think we need mixture of the old and the new: If you want to start BASE, you need to do a FJC; but you can only get on a FJC with a recommendation from someone known to those running the courses (and you would of course include other criteria regards # of skydives, amount of GC experience etc).

The only way you could get people to sign onto a first jump course with such stringent screening requirements would be to offer the course for free. Otherwise they'd just pay the cash to someone who didn't make them do any homework.

So, I'll put my money where my mouth is. Anyone else?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[evilivan 0]

Tom, I have absolutely nothing to add to that

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[SBCmac 0]

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I do not really think of Bridge Day as BASE, in the strictest sense. Bridge Day is Bridge Day, and BASE is BASE. There is some overlap, but there is also a surprising amount of divergence. Bridge Day predates the development of much of what we think of as "modern" BASE jumping. It is an institution of its very own, with its own culture, its own ethics and its own value.

I guess what I'm saying is that Bridge Day doesn't exist to serve the BASE community, any more than the BASE community exists to serve Bridge Day.

I totally disagree… Go to the Vertical Visions/ Bridge Day website (http://www.bridgeday.info) and tell me that it’s not promoted as “BASE” jumping. Any wafo or skydiver that goes to that site or attends the event sees it as BASE jumping. Whether or not we want to consider it BASE jumping or not, it doesn’t matter what we think, because without a doubt they are BASE jumping.

Don’t get me wrong though Tom, I definitely see your point in how experienced BASE jumpers don’t perceive Bridge Day as BASE jumping in its truest form. But the problem is not how experienced BASE jumpers see the event but how the surrounding community perceives it.

And I definitely agree with your last statement about how the BASE community doesn’t serve Bridge Day and vise versa. Maybe the BASE community should take more of an interest in how Bridge Day is conducted. Have you thought about how the NPS sees the event. I’m willing to bet they see it as BASE jumping. So again, maybe the BASE community should develop more of an interest in how our sport is being displayed to the public in events like Bridge day, especially because of the role it plays with the NPS…


SBCmac

[TomAiello 25]

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Whether or not we want to consider it BASE jumping or not, it doesn’t matter what we think, because without a doubt they are BASE jumping.

I guess that depends on whether you are more concerned with the spirit of the thing, or the perception the public holds of the thing (in either case--Bridge Day or BASE in general).

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So again, maybe the BASE community should develop more of an interest in how our sport is being displayed to the public in events like Bridge day...

Do you feel like the BASE community as a whole is not currently interested in that? I'd actually hazard a guess to the contrary. I've met jumpers who've never even been to North America but have opinions about Bridge Day.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

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I do not really think of Bridge Day as BASE

THATs a BIG mistake its much a BASE jump as jumping off any other objects.I seems to rember people yelling up about FJC in Norway and it aint the smartes thing to do as its a cliff. now tell me how smart it is to let people jump off a S in daylight whith all the cool people arround making this jump a safe jump..
what happens as this jumper goes home???He/she had a great day jumping off a S one or two times,he has now become a "base-jumper",at the net he can buy his own gear and go huck some A´s in his/hers area..
can you see what i say?

I never saw BD for more as it is(even as i think its cool by Jason and the staff to do this.)By my deepest oppinion a jump into an event like that might should demand 50 BASE jumps,in that way you would let people whith some experience jump off the brigede and most likly make an even more injury free event,which would give a better effect on the medias and so...

but its just me and i know the BASE world is sopoused to be a no limit zone,but getting "BASEkids"out there aint good for the sport nor our selfs(i dont like hearing about people getting hurt/killed).

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[pgpilot 0]

[A person doesn’t know their ass from a whole in the ground at 50 skydives much less know how to jump into dead air doing a BASE jump in front of thousands of onlookers during an important PR event!!! ]

It's not that hard, really. You jump, toss the PC, reach up and pull one to make it go left, the other to make it go right. You guys make it sound like flying a helicopter or something.

[Faber 0]

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You guys make it sound like flying a helicopter or something.

for that reasson i dont fly helicopters that often

perhaps BD aint so challegin place to land,But many LZ in the BASE envioment aint the same...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[badenhop 0]

New blood is what keeps this lifestyle alive.
You, me, all of us were the new blood at one time.
Shit hit the fan? Absolutely!
Ticking time bomb? Absolutely!
Death and destruction is not limited to the "new blood".
The best of the best are going in.
Know your limits.
Know you're close to death each time you step off.
Odds are always 50/50.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[TVPB 0]

There are some wonderful people entering the sport on a daily basis. But overall, I am concerned about where the sport is heading. My main concern lies in the psychology of the modern/contemporary "BASE Jumper".

I'd like to respond to your statements and questions.

<<>>

Any one with a sense of reality and an honest ability in judging their own and others abilities will be able to tell you that "guru's do not exist in this sport. There are many talented jumpers out there that possess a wealth of knowledge. Yet I am yet to meet a jumper with high levels of ability in every aspect of the sport. Every person I have met has some weeknesses. Look at NdG list!!!!!! The names on there are like the who's who of the sport. Boesnisch, Kjapfjell, Weston, Simpson, Hartshorne, etc. When you meet the person who claims to be a guru, my recommendation is to turn away. If you become one, well . . . . time for some soul searching.

<<>>

Yes, the sport is growing and will continue to do so at an exponential rate. Is this good? I don't mind the sport growing. However, I do not like where the sport has been heading and the type of jumper that is being created. More about this later.

<<>>

I have a few opinions on this. Yep, you can learn bad habits in skydiving that would be detrimental to your BASE progression and safety. This has become more and more of a problem as the sport of skydiving had grown / expanded and less time has been spent teaching students fundamental safety and techniques. We are now rushing students through with minimal parachute flight training (focus has been AFF + freefall). -> Lets think about this for a second. "Less time teaching students properly". "More students entering the sport". Sounds a bit like where BASE has been heading lately!!!!!!

BUT - what is the difference between getting bad instruction skydiving or BASE jumping? I'll tell you, it is possible to get bad instruction in both. However, I would personally rather have been sintructed poorly in skydiving and then enter BASE rather than just be poorly instructed in BASE. WHY? MARGIN FOR ERROR!!!!!!

2nd point - to the people who argue that skydiving is useless and/or detrimental to BASE learning/progression/education - if (as a BASE instructor), you cannot teach your BASE student something useful whilst they are skydiving, how in hells name can you expect to teach them something useful whilst they are BASE jumping???? Yes, BASE and skydiving are VERY different. But, there are many similarities. If you can't teach a student basic canopy control, safety & risk management psychology, etc whilst they are skydiving, then you are going to find it difficult to teachthem anything useful in the BASE environment.

<<<>>

The shit is already hitting the fan. Check out the fatality list. Check out the BASE boards for injuries, etc. I would also bet that a lower percentage of incidents even get mentioned. I know of a number personally!

<<>>

Danger / Extreme???? Are relative terms. The sport is only as dangerous as its participants. Look at the fatalities and major injuries. THe jumpers themselves are attempting higher risk jumps with less and less experience and minimal training. Check out the BASE boards. Read between the lines.


<<>>

Respect is decreasing and risk is increasing. This brings me to the point I mentioned earlier about "BASE jumper psychology". People seem to have either less time or less patience nowadays to learn their trade/craft/sport/etc.

After being injured very early in his/her jumping career (an injury that could have very easily been paraplegia or death instead of just hospitalisation), a jumper made this comment to me: "we knew there was a risk and decided it was acceptable".

I talked to this jumper in depth afterwards and found that ultimately he thought that the worst that would happen would be a minor leg/arm injury. He also had the "it can't happen to me attitude" when considering the possibility of death.

He did not really consider risk or consequence. And the magnitude of each.

What did he do? He tried several new techniques on the one jump instead of progressing one step at a time (BOC, low opening, longer freefall, etc).


CONSEQUENCE - most modern jumpers don't understand the full consequence of their actions.
Consequences include the following:
- death
- bereaving family & friends who don't understand what you have done & have been doing
- bereaving fmaily & friends who blame the sport when you die / get injured
- permanent injury = loss of physical function with possible deterioration of mental function / stability. THis has flow on affects of career, relationships, work, ability to earn money, ability to participate in activites, etc.
- bad publicity for the sport. Note: if someone dies, it is the media's job to report it to the public. That is what the public demands. Media would not exist if the public did not want to consume the "(mis)information" it provides. Hence - the jumper should not provide the media with "fodder" to the feed the public.

A typical modern jumper has many of the following attributes:
- does not want to spend time learning and watching other people
- wants to jump asap
- is very naive about what constitutes good training, curriculum, progression, and who is a good mentor
- sees other people do manouvres and thinks it is easy and low risk just because nothing went wrong on that occasion. They don't consider the possibility that the person who performed the manouvre may just be very experience and VERY WELL prepared.
- laughs it off when injury occurs
- feels sorry for the last person that died - but does not consider what the root cause of the fatality was. Often he/she will go out and attempt a similar jump.
- does not understand or practice affective risk management strategies. This is often due to poor instruction from a similar person.
- Is all too willing to instruct other new jumpers even if they don't have all the prerequisite experience and ability.
- has a low skill base due to minimal / no parachuting experience which consequently makes them a higher risk jumper.
- has minimal interest and poor understanding in rigging and equipment
- has entered the sport to satisfy other personal objectives as opposed to "truly wanting to BASE jump".
- etc, etc.

To sum it up: r.e. numbers, the sport is growing rapidly. And their is a growth in the number of Ken / Barbie / 3min attention span generation entering the sport. The sport is not becoming more dangerous. The cliffs are the same shape (mostly). The risk factor is being increased by the participants.

Note that there are many new jumpers who are not like what I mentioned above!!!!

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[ManBird 0]

Very well stated reality check, Tom. Do you feel that the proportion of yahoos is increasing? Or would you say that there is just an overall increase in th enumber of jumpers, and therefore more yahoos? The yahoos, of course, do tend to make the most noise (to the media). They're responding to mTV's casting call right now.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[jasonf 0]

Fortunately in Australia all the new jumpers I have seen coming through recently and over the past couple of years have an awesome attitude and are great people to be around. This is reflected in the standard of jumping and the relatively low number of injuries in Oz. I am excited about seeing where the sport of BASE his heading and look forward to seeing more new jumpers.

Jason F

[rendezvous 0]

Oh ! Boy ! You go to a Skydiving forum and you hear the experienced resenting new blood and growth, you come to the BASE forum and it's the same. No one seems to like new blood these days But what I'd be interested in hearing about is how were the pioneers of these sports any safer than the new blood when they took to the sport with quipment that wasn't even designed for the purpose, and then what about the large number of experienced folks, who in the name of experience, routinely perform outside the envelope of experience, safety and equipment design. From what I understand, the stats on fatalities don't seem to show a trend one way or the other or atleast that's what a lot of experienced people say.

[hookitt 0]

Most experienced folks don't resent the new guys. I was new blood just like everyone else. There's always some people, especially when they first get into it, that don't respect BASE or the ethics involved in keeping sites available. Quite often the new guy doesn't even realize it until something happens.

There's always new BASE jumpers. None of us started with experience.

[SBCmac 0]

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Oh ! Boy ! You go to a Skydiving forum and you hear the experienced resenting new blood and growth, you come to the BASE forum and it's the same. No one seems to like new blood these days.

Well, maybe both sides have legitimate arguments??? For example, why is it that skydiving newbies are downsizing too quickly and BASE newbies are burning objects? In both instances, newbies are impatient and want to progress too quickly. Instead newbies are not taking the time to get proper training, whether it is getting proper canopy training before downsizing in skydiving or in BASE getting training/tips from the locals in how to properly jump local objects. In BASE, us that go out and work hard to make objects jumpable get screwed when newbies go out and shit all over the hard work we’ve done by not getting tips on how to jump the objects properly. The new blood in BASE, that are being spoken of here, are those that take for granted the hard work that goes into making objects jumpable. BASE is not like skydiving, we can’t simply go somewhere else once all our objects are burned…

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But what I'd be interested in hearing about is how were the pioneers of these sports any safer than the new blood when they took to the sport with equipment that wasn't even designed for the purpose, and then what about the large number of experienced folks, who in the name of experience, routinely perform outside the envelope of experience, safety and equipment design. From what I understand, the stats on fatalities don't seem to show a trend one way or the other or at least that's what a lot of experienced people say.

That’s the whole point here… In both skydiving and BASE, newbies are not taking risks in areas that haven’t been discovered already. Newbies are taking risks in areas that have been well established by the experienced. So why reinvent the wheel when you can spring board off of the experienced and learn from their successes and mistakes. Then when you are par with experience in the area that you want to advance in, then take the risks where they should be taken, on uncharted ground…

In both cases, there is no reason why new blood shouldn’t take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that exists amongst the experienced jumpers. New blood and growth are not the problems here; egos, lack of patience, and doing what’s cool to look cool are the problems with some of the new blood entering BASE and skydiving…

SBCmac

[tfelber 0]

This is a very interesting discussion for someone thinking about taking up BASE. In my opinion, as risk-filled as skydiving is, anybody can try skydiving, although I don't think everyone should. When I started, a friend at work asked if I wanted to try skydiving and I said sure let's go. I have taken at least 50 friends out to the DZ for their first jump and still think it's great to be around first timers.

However, I think people really need to look at BASE from all aspects before trying it. It CAN'T be considered a joy ride and I wouldn't suggest anyone try it. I think anyone considering it needs to read Tom's article and determine why they're doing it before ever jumping.

It's hard for me to believe someone with 50 skydives and some cash jumping off any fixed object. Most anyone wanting to do this clearly has no respect for BASE or the consequences of a jump gone bad. I don't think they even have respect for a skydive gone bad. How many emergency situations can you have experienced in 50 jumps? Even with DZ.COM and the incident reports you can't possibly understand the number of things that can go wrong.

I understand the financial benefits of the more the merrier, but people need to be responsible about the mentoring they are doing. If the mentor believes the student is ready, then let's jump otherwise hold off until the student is more prepared. That's how self regulation works!

And, as I've said previously, if someone wants to try their reserve off a fixed object no regulation is going to stop it...

[skypuppy 1]

But if I had the choice to eliminate one of the above, it would be events like Bridge Day that allow untrained skydivers to do their first BASE jump. I think Bridge day is causing a ripple affect that we are just now seeing. And it’s only going to get worse if we keep letting people bypass proper BASE training…
_________________________________________________

I was one of the guys making my first BASE jump at Bridge Day, possibly before you were born...

Bridge Day's been around a long time before you started hucking objects, and I;m sure it'll be around for a long time after you're gone...

So I guess if you don't like people entering 'your' sport you're just going to have to start rounding them up and getting rid of them like a man rather than grousing about an event that gives economic benefits to hundreds of thousands of people each year in West Virginia.

The world is about more than just you.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[SwoopnHuck 0]

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The world is about more than just you.

I wouldn't get on SBCmac's rear end too much. He has after all provided some insightful information into this discussion. I especially like his points concerning will the newbies (I'm one of them) still be around after they have witness some friends go in (and how can you argue with that). We may not always like the answers to the questions which we ask, but as something as serious as BASE, the honest answers must be given.

I don't think Bridge Day is a bad thing. It's just the talk that some people initiate this time of year abiout getting into BASE without fulling understanding what "getting into BASE" really means.

Keep the talk coming people. This has been a good thread (at least in my mind it's been good ... and heck I started it).

It's a parachute, it wants to open!!!

[BASE813 0]

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But if I had the choice to eliminate one of the above, it would be events like Bridge Day that allow untrained skydivers to do their first BASE jump. I think Bridge day is causing a ripple affect that we are just now seeing. And it’s only going to get worse if we keep letting people bypass proper BASE training…

although I really am not a fan of how bridge day allows skydivers with 50 jumps do a BASE jump, (we lecture people all year about getting the correct skills and ethically its wrong to let / take people with low skills to a jump, but BD throws it out of the window) - I have come to learn that BD is a different beast to actuall BASE jumping. A friend of mine (who is a very experienced BASE jumper and has been to BD a few times - although he may shag sheep!!!) summed it up when he said "it aint about BASE, its about a load of people getting together and having a really cool time -its just fun" - its not BASE jumping, its just bridge day. I think its actually minimal the amount of people who walk away from it thinking "im a BASE jumper" instead they walk away saying "I did bridge day" - the ripple effect you explain is certainly not from BD, this has been going for years - and I am now starting to realise that BD does not produce people thinking "im a BASE'r...............

I still agree the 50 skydive limit on Bridge Day is questionable, and slightly hypocritical in telling people all year to get the right amount of skills and research, but for one day a year go ahead and fill ya boots......... but althought I am a BASE nazi in my views of people getting into the sport, I realise Bridge Day is a cool get together and NOT what BASE jumping is about.............

If I had to eliminate one of the above then it would be the tossas who after 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 etc jumps thinking they are ready to take a student out............. These are people that have done a FJC and after a few jumps think they know everything.............

I made a post a few years back before I started jumping asking what made a good teacher........ there were some quite good responses (nice one TA): has this view changed over the past few years?
http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17223&highlight=teachers+BASE

[Faber 0]

i just realiced that my gf whith 36 SL off an cessna and not having her licens yet(and newer will as she stopped after i broke a leg while BASE),she has 47 jumps as of this time(small girls and over sized harnesses dont work),she will only need 3 more skydives before she can join me at BD..hopefuly that harness wont turn her arround to her back giving her a flat spin before she hopefuly pitch....
well she aint gonna borrow my gear,i dont want it bloddy

only say this by my black humor as i would be really sad if a person like my gf one day walked up to that nice Span and close the event down forever as they go in...

to get back on track(as i already broke my promise about not dissussing BD)

Perhaps some of thouse who makes FJC´s should do as Tom does at his courses,he as for persons that can verify that this jumper will get back home to a crew/mentor that can/will pick the person up in case he starts to do somthing bad...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[SBCmac 0]

Skypuppy,

I don’t want to make your heart pacer skip a beat again, so if you can’t handle other people’s points of views you probably shouldn’t read any further… Just looking out for your own good, since you’re my BASE grandfather and all
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WARNING… WARNING… Do NOT read past this point if you can’t handle it…
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I was one of the guys making my first BASE jump at Bridge Day, possibly before you were born...

So what do you want… a cookie??? A Jr. G-man badge??? What’s your point?

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Bridge Day's been around a long time before you started hucking objects, and I;m sure it'll be around for a long time after you're gone...

Very true… Very true… And again, what’s your point??? Is the event always going to allow untrained jumpers to huck off even when I’m gone??? You’d be surprised what one person can accomplish in making things right before they’re gone…

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So I guess if you don't like people entering 'your' sport you're just going to have to start rounding them up and getting rid of them like a man rather than grousing about an event that gives economic benefits to hundreds of thousands of people each year in West Virginia.

Nowhere have I ever stated that “I don’t like people entering my sport”. And I definitely consider it to be “my sport” as much as it is “your sport”. Many of us in this sport, no matter how long we have been in BASE, have paid and continue to “Pay the Price to be in BASE”. All we have done in this thread is share our opinions about problems that are starting to see arise with how newbies are approaching the sport. You’re the one who introduced the whole “before you were born” attitude…

And not to mention… What the hell does “rounding them up and getting rid of them like a man” mean??? You need to come back to the city from whatever backwoods farm you live on where they still say the phrase “grab a rope boys, there’s going to be a hang’n”…

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rather than grousing about an event that gives economic benefits to hundreds of thousands of people each year in West Virginia.

Oh yeah… By the way, since you’re so knowledgeable about Bridge Day and all, you obviously know that Bridge Day was not and is not based around BASE jumping. BASE jumping is simply one of many events at Bridge Day…

For your convenience, here’s a little history about Bridge Day:

“Bridge Day was first celebrated in 1980, to commemorate the completion of the New River Gorge Bridge. Since that time, the annual festival has grown to include parachutists jumping from the Bridge to the river below, rappellers dangling from ropes under the bridge, over 200 vendors selling food and arts and crafts, and fantastic entertainment. All of this combined with the spectacular Fall foliage of the New River Gorge and the sheer size of the crowd of over 200,000 makes for an unforgettable experience.” (http://www.wvbridgeday.com/bridge-day-faq/)

So I’m sure Bridge Day will be around whether BASE is a part of it or not… The NOT will happen eventually if we keep allowing inexperienced jumpers to huck off that bridge in front of hundreds of thousand of wafo’s without proper training. Things will change overnight if we traumatize one jumper’s family, because that jumper unnecessarily burns in because of lack of training, and they sue the event for negligence. Which negligence could easily be proven by allowing people to huck off that bridge with only 50 skydives and no BASE training…

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The world is about more than just you.

When I’m at exit point, the hell it’s not about my world… And my decisions (my world) at exit point affects your world as a BASE jumper if I make the wrong decisions. The wrong decisions are not getting hurt, getting arrested, or anything that can go wrong on a BASE jump. A wrong decision is when I could have prevented an injury or being busted or anything that can go wrong on a BASE jump by simply doing the due diligence necessary to succeed… This whole thread is about newbies (and existing jumpers) not getting the proper training, including learning BASE ethics, necessary to become successful BASE jumpers. It is not about me or anyone else not wanting new blood in our sport…

Well Skypuppy, I’m not sure you made it this far down this post, but if you did I hope you now see what this thread is about and contribute instead of flame…


SBCmac

[TomAiello 25]

SBCMac, Skypuppy

Calm down there. I think you may be taking this a little too personally. Let's try to keep this thread moving as a useful discussion, instead of flame fest.

Consider yourselves both warned. This is a good discussion, so I won't lock the thread. Instead, I'll throw you out of the forum for a week or so, so the discussion can continue.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

Perhaps you view BASE as more important than Bridge Day.

There are many thousands of people who disagree. In fact, some probably wish all the BASE sites on earth were shut down, so more people would show up at Bridge Day, and Bridge Day wouldn't have to suffer from association with folks dying in Norway, China or wherever.

Bridge Day is much, much more than a BASE event. It's a huge yearly happening that happens to have some parachuting involved. I like it a lot. I think it has independent value, which is unrelated to the greater world of BASE jumping.

How many times have you been to Bridge Day? How would you feel if the Bridge Day Commission (non-jumpers, pretty much one and all) started telling folks in Norway how they ought to manage their legal walls?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[SBCmac 0]

Quote

SBCMac, Skypuppy

Calm down there. I think you may be taking this a little too personally. Let's try to keep this thread moving as a useful discussion, instead of flame fest.

You've got my cooperation Tom
SBCmac