Newbie Taking a AFF student BASE jumping!

[Treejumps 0]

"New jumpers and skydivers who want to get into BASE, and how they do it."

Yes, this is going to be an important topic today and into the future. I don't think that the topic of "I'm a skydiver and I don't like what you said about my sky-buddy" is part of that. At a bare minimum I think one should either be involved with base, or have an actual interest in getting involved. I don't care what goes on in tiddly-winks circles, nor would I involve myself in their affairs. I think that there are enough issues in base that we don't need the periphery adding their 2 cents just becasue they can. But thats just my 2cents.

Cya.

[leroydb 0]

read up, he has at least one jump

added:
link to post

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1192996#1192996

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Jason,
Has it been that long ago that you dont remember the reason that you guys didnt like me. It was for going out and jumping sites with my freind Geoff (BASE709) not taking new jumpers and teaching people. I started showing some very experianced skydivers the ways of HUCKING only after a HUNDRED or so jumps of my own.

The reson for my post was not to BASH this guy but to show him that everyone in BASE felt the same about this as we do. After talking to this guy with no responce I decided to post against my better judgement. And once again insted of this being helpful it has turned into a BASHING session.

The guy in general is my freind!! I just want him to realize that if hes only gonna hurt himself I have no problem with that, just dont hurt someone else that really doesnt realize what there getting into! I live by "IF YOUR GONNA BE STUPID YOU BETTER BE TOUGH".

Im not gonna make him an outcast like you guys have with me and Geoff. Oh I remember what it was like not having anyone to BASE with but Geoff. Now thats changed. I have a BASE freindly DZ with about 15 steady BASE jumpers to HUCK with. HOWS THAT FOR IRONIC !!!!!

JOHN HAYES
NC BASE 3
BASE 708

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[TomAiello 25]

I don't know any of the circumstances surrounding this, but I just wanted to comment:

Quote

I started showing some very experianced skydivers the ways of HUCKING only after a HUNDRED or so jumps of my own.

In my opinion, 100 BASE jumps is inadequate experience to be teaching new jumpers.

Just comparing what I knew that I knew when I had 100 jumps, and what I now (1000 jumps later) know that neither I nor anyone else actually knows (did you follow all that?), I'm frightened at how ignorant (and overconfident) I was then.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Just comparing what I knew that I knew when I had 100 jumps, and what I now (1000 jumps later) know that neither I nor anyone else actually knows (did you follow all that?), I'm frightened at how ignorant (and overconfident) I was then.>
__________________________________________________ Not teaching but going with some guys that had hundreds of skydives, and were gonna jump if I was there or not.

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[eb66to77 0]

Man this has turned into a bit of a flame fest. John taught me how to BASE about a year ago and was there for every other jump until I moved to Europe. He also taught my wife. Along with NC2, 788, 789, and a few others, who also didn't have any issues with it. He pretty much runs the area and no one has a problem with it. Well except a few guys that can't let go of the past. Some peple just don't get along. Since I have been jumping no one has gotten hurt and everyone seems to be getting a hold on the sport. He is asking the question to the whole net-based community that was never afforded to him. Input without the smartassed comments would probably make this forum look a lot less like a moron show. Now that is just MY two cents. later on

[base570 1]

Quote

Jason,
Has it been that long ago that you dont remember the reason that you guys didnt like me. It was for going out and jumping sites with my freind Geoff (BASE709) not taking new jumpers and teaching people. I started showing some very experianced skydivers the ways of HUCKING only after a HUNDRED or so jumps of my own.

The reson for my post was not to BASH this guy but to show him that everyone in BASE felt the same about this as we do. After talking to this guy with no responce I decided to post against my better judgement. And once again insted of this being helpful it has turned into a BASHING session.

The guy in general is my freind!! I just want him to realize that if hes only gonna hurt himself I have no problem with that, just dont hurt someone else that really doesnt realize what there getting into! I live by "IF YOUR GONNA BE STUPID YOU BETTER BE TOUGH".

Im not gonna make him an outcast like you guys have with me and Geoff. Oh I remember what it was like not having anyone to BASE with but Geoff. Now thats changed. I have a BASE freindly DZ with about 15 steady BASE jumpers to HUCK with. HOWS THAT FOR IRONIC !!!!!

JOHN HAYES
NC BASE 3
BASE 708

Yes John I remember the reasons but I guess you do not....
As I remember you had asked 515 if you could tag along on a BASE excursion to scope out new sites that we had planned well in advance of your request. 515 respectfully declined because he thought it was over your head since you had NO jumps and NO idea how to pack even though you had many skydives. So you got pissed and went out to 3 sites that weekend and jumped all 3 (B<300ft,S-210ft,E-150ft). Now these were not beginner sites but you treated them as such since you didn't know any better and were too impatient to wait for another weekend when we could show you and help out. You and Geoff were lucky you didn't die that weekend and from that point on you felt like you were alienated from the group, which was in your head. From what I recall you NEVER contacted me to ask for help or guidance, you just took it upon yourself to go out and learn on your own, pissed at us for not catering to you. You're right that I was upset about how you went about 'learning', if you can call it that, but I got over it. then the reports of you teaching people came in. 150ft cliff or a sub 300ft building is not a good site for a first jump, can't you see that?????? Then burning that 2000footer and basically saying it wasn't you and you were a victim of circumstance... come on man it's one thing to burn a site and take responsibility but it's totally different to try to weasel your way out of it and blame other people.
John, I have nothing against you personally and I respect what you have done in the skydiving community but BASE is not skydiving and I think you have a hard time separating them. It's great that you taut having taught 15 jumpers "the ways of HUCKING" but the way I see it is that you have brought 15 skydivers into BASE with little regard for their safety or wellbeing, to make you look like 'the man', as you put it.

How do you expect your new 'guinea pigs' to follow the rules (respect, knowledge and safety) when you never did??
Instant gratification (impatience) and looking important (ego) is what everyone wants in todays society, but NO ONE wants to put in the time or effort to learn it right. What a sad world we live in

Once again, I wish you luck in talking to your friend and I hope you can get your point across and come to some understanding.

570

[base570 1]

Quote

Man this has turned into a bit of a flame fest. John taught me how to BASE about a year ago and was there for every other jump until I moved to Europe. He also taught my wife. Along with NC2, 788, 789, and a few others, who also didn't have any issues with it. He pretty much runs the area and no one has a problem with it. Well except a few guys that can't let go of the past. Some peple just don't get along. Since I have been jumping no one has gotten hurt and everyone seems to be getting a hold on the sport. He is asking the question to the whole net-based community that was never afforded to him. Input without the smartassed comments would probably make this forum look a lot less like a moron show. Now that is just MY two cents. later on

Matt,
So no one has gotten hurt, huh?? Aren't you laid up now from not knowing how to jump slider up? So did John teach you that? How about a busted up ankle from jumping in unfavorable conditions that happened to one of his 'students'. I could give more examples but there is no need to...
It's quite funny that you think John 'runs the show' in NC, I guess either he has made you believe that or you didn't put in the time or effort to look around and find other more experienced BASE jumpers in the area. If you did you would have found out that most of the sites that John and his crew are jumping were opened up and continually jumped by.... you guessed it someone else! In fact I know of a few jumpers that would be offended with that statement!

Heal fast

570

[Faber 0]

Quote

In my opinion, 100 BASE jumps is inadequate experience to be teaching new jumpers.

Tom did i misunderstand you the otherday were i understanded that it were better to help people that really would do this no matter what?
Becourse i read it as you said that sometimes its better to help thouse kind of people,instead of letting them ruin their life and the objects...

I dont think 100jumps will make you a person that can teach,heck you could have 1200jumps and still not know what i think is relavant to be abel to Mentor,it all depends on what your genneral knowlegede are to all aspects of the world of BASE

I do agree whith you in this matter(about a 100jump guy shouldnt teach),i just wondered as i understanded somthing else from what you wrote earlyer...

Personaly i dont think ill ever be a mentor,i simply wont be that good.However i would guide new jumpers if they ask me,aslong they can do the basic in BASE..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[eb66to77 0]

I was hurt due to a funky openning that got away from me and had nothing to do with "not knowing how to jump slider up". Not like I have to explain myself to anyone. I was on my own not hurting anyone else. Everyone knows the hazards involved when they step off the edge. Not like this is my first near death experience. I got three years of that shit behind me from the sand box. Have your little piece of the world there in NC, nobody cares. Thanks for the Heal fast though. later on 861

Edited to add not take away.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Tom did i misunderstand you the otherday were i understanded that it were better to help people that really would do this no matter what?

Nope. That's what I meant. If someone is going to go jump no matter what you do, I think it's better to help them out.

I didn't think that was what John was expressing, but apparently I misinterpreted what he had said, and this was the case.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[NickDG 23]

First off, I must say when I hear someone say, “they didn’t know any better, but they do now” and they started BASE jumping within the last fifteen years, it sounds hollow to me. BASE ethics, as an issue, is older than that. The first BASE ethics articles, i.e., how to protect sites, how, and who, should teach, started appearing in the mid-to-late 1980s.

However, there's a bigger issue lurking here . . .

With a perspective that comes from simply being born sooner (not saying a better perspective, just a different one) I see these wars have been raging since almost the beginning of the sport. I say, almost the beginning, because the only “pure” era of BASE is the beginning years when no one knew anything and the playing field was level. This is a time when if you discovered some great truth about BASE jumping, you only had to make three phone calls, and by the next day, the whole BASE community would know it too.

Then it started to change, and, it began to get ugly. I remember (numerous times) X severely berating some hapless newbie for turning others on to BASE in a time when X had just fifty BASE jumps (and more than anyone else at the time) while the newbie had just ten. X is the first person I ever hear refer to an object as, “locals only.”

I knew, right then, we had a problem that would never go away unless we threw the baby out with bath water. Now when protecting legal sites is an issue (a thing we never needed to worry about back then) it’s going to get worse. The baby, in the above, is the freedom.

The balancing act nowadays is letting the newbie experience that freedom, that feeling that fired our imaginations, that thing at the very core of the sport itself, without putting in place all the rules and regulations that drove us out of skydiving and away from the drop zone in the first place. And come on, the transition from yahoo skydiver to cool BASE jumper is as old as the sport itself. We all went through that transition (except for Ritchie, who did it the other way) and we all made some of the mistakes we’re getting on this guy in the thread for.

You can all make up your minds on an individual basis, because that’s part of it too. But, be really really careful. If your major concern is protecting your local site (legal, or not) I’m not entirely sure you have it right. Look at it this way. All one needs to BASE jump is the desire, a rig, and an object. Those three things will always be available. No, local, state, or federal agency can ever shut down BASE jumping. No one person could do it either. If you say it’s for the good of the sport, it doesn’t wash. You are really saying it’s about your convenience. No one can own, rent or parcel out BASE jumping. And that, right there, is the beauty of it, it’s the freedom. We are starting to monkey with that to the point, that well, you know . . .

Nick BASE 194

[McDuck 0]

Hang on a second...the operative term here being "hang". I was wondering of you could be my mentor, Jason, and show me how to get snagged on a tower while trying to BASE it? I'm just saying. If you're going to be an asshat and try and tell people about their screw-ups, at least have the satchel to mention your own.

Edited to add: Unless you AREN'T the Jason that was featured in Skydiving magazine recently.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Quote

First off, I must say when I hear someone say, “they didn’t know any better, but they do now” and they started BASE jumping within the last fifteen years, it sounds hollow to me. BASE ethics, as an issue, is older than that. The first BASE ethics articles, i.e., how to protect sites, how, and who, should teach, started appearing in the mid-to-late 1980s.

However, there's a bigger issue lurking here . . .

With a perspective that comes from simply being born sooner (not saying a better perspective, just a different one) I see these wars have been raging since almost the beginning of the sport. I say, almost the beginning, because the only “pure” era of BASE is the beginning years when no one knew anything and the playing field was level. This is a time when if you discovered some great truth about BASE jumping, you only had to make three phone calls, and by the next day, the whole BASE community would know it too.

Then it started to change, and, it began to get ugly. I remember (numerous times) X severely berating some hapless newbie for turning others on to BASE in a time when X had just fifty BASE jumps (and more than anyone else at the time) while the newbie had just ten. X is the first person I ever hear refer to an object as, “locals only.”

I knew, right then, we had a problem that would never go away unless we threw the baby out with bath water. Now when protecting legal sites is an issue (a thing we never needed to worry about back then) it’s going to get worse. The baby, in the above, is the freedom.

The balancing act nowadays is letting the newbie experience that freedom, that feeling that fired our imaginations, that thing at the very core of the sport itself, without putting in place all the rules and regulations that drove us out of skydiving and away from the drop zone in the first place. And come on, the transition from yahoo skydiver to cool BASE jumper is as old as the sport itself. We all went through that transition (except for Ritchie, who did it the other way) and we all made some of the mistakes we’re getting on this guy in the thread for.

You can all make up your minds on an individual basis, because that’s part of it too. But, be really really careful. If your major concern is protecting your local site (legal, or not) I’m not entirely sure you have it right. Look at it this way. All one needs to BASE jump is the desire, a rig, and an object. Those three things will always be available. No, local, state, or federal agency can ever shut down BASE jumping. No one person could do it either. If you say it’s for the good of the sport, it doesn’t wash. You are really saying it’s about your convenience. No one can own, rent or parcel out BASE jumping. And that, right there, is the beauty of it, it’s the freedom. We are starting to monkey with that to the point, that well, you know . . .

Nick BASE 194

Right ON brother!!!!! Your reply should be part of the HOLY GRAIL of BASE. If your ever in NC get in touch with me and we will go HUCK a 2000 footer with an elevator.

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[base698 1]

You'd think all of you were from California with all the bitching going on.

I'll try to keep this short. Jason is super heads up jumper on a level I don't think I've seen with anyone. He refused to teach anyone when he had over 200 BASE jumps, but did offer a lot of guidance if you were willing to be patient. A friend and I got somewhat mentored by him and the crew he frequents with largely because we were jumping on our own anyway. Seeing that refusal to take me early on makes me reluctant to take anyone at my 160 jump experience level and probably for a long while (not to mention I suck ).

My personal consideration if I were to take someone would be how driven they are. This comes from the 2 years I spent debating if it was for me. If they aren't really ready to spend a gob of time and money on learning the necessary skills (packing, skydives with BASE canopies, pool exits, balloon jumps) then what would make me think they'd be ready to pay with their life? BASE jumping isn't a novelty jump the likes of what's to be had at Rantoul, most of the time it requires precise planning and execution with lots of backup plans if things go gnarly and they frequently do--quickly. I've seen a lot of people get into it with no concept of this, because skydiving so frequently goes well. This leads people into BASE way too early, and is probably the primary factor for 20 jump wonders taking even less experienced people. Most of the time they come out ok, but more often than not its pure luck getting them through it--I sure had a lot starting out. Still knowing everything in theory means you have to have the practical aspects as well, so things can still go wrong even if you do everything just right.

On the flip side everyone makes mistakes and sometimes people pay for it dearly. Its the way of skydiving and BASE jumping. You won't truely know this fact until you see someone bounce, or have to help a friend in the car because he's paralyzed.

I've done enough jumps with both groups to know they both have solid jumpers that care a lot about the sport. You guys should probably think about learning from one another and go jumping together Especially since I've seen the benefits to both groups first hand, and there's a lot to learn there.

[base698 1]

I forgot to add all you bit*$*$*$es better be ready to jump when I get back!!!

[base570 1]

Quote

Hang on a second...the operative term here being "hang". I was wondering of you could be my mentor, Jason, and show me how to get snagged on a tower while trying to BASE it? I'm just saying. If you're going to be an asshat and try and tell people about their screw-ups, at least have the satchel to mention your own.

Edited to add: Unless you AREN'T the Jason that was featured in Skydiving magazine recently.

Dear Mr. McDuck,
I think I have already told everyone about my screw-up if you would have looked here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1029422;search_string=base%20prophets;#1029422 you would have seen that, but I guess you failed to search around. Just like you failed to do your homework when looking for a mentor. You stated in your other post that "as a brand-spanking new neophyte to BASE, I personally would only seek out the best and most experienced BASE jumpers to get me started, the ones who not only have been doing it for quite a while, but also come highly recommended by their peers."
This statement shows just how ill-prepared you are for BASE. I think that you must have just been looking only at your DZ and not anywhere else since there are at least 4 other jumpers in the Carolinas that have at least DOUBLE the experience that your mentor does. Also who were the 'peers' you talked to? People who he took on a jump from his DZ? Don't you think that those opinions might be slightly biased? Open those funny little eyes of yours Mr. McDuck and you would see that there is a whole lot more than just your little DZ out there to get opinions from.
I'm not saying John is a bad person because I know he is not. His heart is in the right place, I just think he is a little too eager (just like his newest student) to teach everyone, no matter what their skill level, who has even the slightest interest in BASE. He's a DZO for crying out loud, he has to keep his clientele happy, right?? Otherwise they would bail and jump at another DZ, which means loss of revenue.
As far as the pictures in skydiving goes... do you really think that I have control over the person that took the photos? The shots were news to me when the mag came out. Someone else had to show me.

Thanks for the little pun at the beginning of your post, you should take that act on the road. It sure was funny! Oh, and if you're going to be an 'asshat' please do your research first and know what your talking about.

570

[baseninja 0]

Damn, am I the only person that thinks that these local conflicts are best settled outside of a worldwide forum?

Meet up somewhere at a bar, drink a beer together, and talk it out.... If that doesn't work, then tell the world how little you like each other...

[RayLosli 11]

Hang on a second...the operative term here being "hang". I was wondering of you could be my mentor, Jason, and show me how to get snagged on a tower while trying to BASE it? I'm just saying. If you're going to be an asshat and try and tell people about their screw-ups, at least have the satchel to mention your own.
................................................................................................

Dude you do know that if you BASE jump, you will
Bang into something at least once or twice to say....
the....LEAST. No matter what your experience level.

I have the, Satchel to say.
" You dont know what the F##k you are Talking About"
ASSHAT !

[leroydb 0]

scwheet...
add: can't we all just get along?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[McDuck 0]

Okay, I was going to leave this be, mainly due to the fact that with the exception of a few reasonable responses to the original point early on, and NickDG's informed and well thought out answer, this has degraded into an ego contest. I could speculate on how it seems that BASE jumpers in this online community seem to be evenly divided between the uber-egos and those who enjoy learning from and teaching others, but that has become abundantly clear from the first response that derided John for someone's perceptions of his past and current skills. That was way off base (no pun intended) and totally beside the point.

What ever YOU think of John, he has been the right kind of mentor in skydiving and BASE for me, always giving me the choice while giving me all the good reasons to wait, learn and take my time before getting into anything new. I'm sure the team for the defense will protest that this touting of my "sky buddy's" character is not relevant, but I beg to differ.

John has consistently told me to wait a while longer before BASE jumping. Never once has that deterred me from going to his DZ to skydive, and never once has it occurred to me to BASE with people when he was telling me it wasn't a good idea. I'm not sure what type of person would abandon a DZ simply because the DZO won't give them the OK to BASE, but I know I'm not that type of person.

It's sad, but Nick's post carries far more truth than I think he intended. Or maybe I'm reading more into it after seeing the more vehement responses to John's original question and my knee-jerk reaction. If the attitude and demeanor of some of the responses is par for the course in certain parts of the BASE community, then I am certain I am in the right place when it comes to learning and growing in both skydiving and BASE, IF I decide to continue on in it. People who tell me "no" and explain why without exuding a holier-than-thou attitude have not only my respect, but my full attention. People who just want to be known as the end-all be-all of any sport just have the back of my shirt. I think there was more to some of the reponses to John's post than a humble desire to help and guide...and it showed.

Being a good mentor seems to me to be less about how many thousands of BASE jumps you have, and more about how willing you are to BE a mentor with that many jumps to begin with. But, you know, I'm a one-BASE-jump wonder.

Edited for spelling.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

Well Spoken young jedi!!!! You have seen the ways of BASE. LIVE LONG and PROSPER!


I have enclosed a photo of my 2 cents, since everyone is so concerned about ME!!!!!

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

"Just like you failed to do your homework when looking for a mentor. You stated in your other post that "as a brand-spanking new neophyte to BASE, I personally would only seek out the best and most experienced BASE jumpers to get me started, the ones who not only have been doing it for quite a while, but also come highly recommended by their peers."
This statement shows just how ill-prepared you are for BASE. I think that you must have just been looking only at your DZ and not anywhere else since there are at least 4 other jumpers in the Carolinas that have at least DOUBLE the experience that your mentor does. Also who were the 'peers' you talked to? People who he took on a jump from his DZ? Don't you think that those opinions might be slightly biased? Open those funny little eyes of yours Mr. McDuck and you would see that there is a whole lot more than just your little DZ out there to get opinions from."

<<This coment truely shows who is trying to get their ego stroked!! Think about it if a person chooses to go BASE jumping they will go with people that they know. Why would someone travel to another place looking for someone with more jumps or experiance when they dont even know you. Why would they trust you with their lives? The same in skydiving, does someone choose a DZ based on the experiance of the people or is it the VIBE? Maybe if you gave off a better vibe instead of always lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce on someone for posting on here maybe people would search you out. This has strayed way far from the original post. We were concerned about a newbie taking an AFF student BASE jumping remember! Then it wasnt long before you pounced on me! If you are looking for your ego to get stoked here you go, "yes you have more jumps than I do" Yes you have been jumping longer than me". But some people were just not born to teach what ever the experiance. I dont take people Base jumping because I am worried about loosing revenue at the DZ. I go with people that are gonna go whether Im there or not. I have never tought someone how to BASE but rather tell thim what I have learned through my experiances, Sharing the knowlege from jumpers past is how people learn not to make the same mistakes as the older jumpers. By doing this makes BASE safer and safer so that people dont continue to make the same mistakes.
I have never jumped with you, but I have jumped with several people that jump with you often, For some reason you dont like me, and I truely dont care.

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[base698 1]

Quote

I dont take people Base jumping because I am worried about loosing revenue at the DZ.

Yeah, you have actually made the DZ lose revenue quite a few times when everyone has left to go huck something.

[base311 0]

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I have enclosed a photo of my 2 cents, since everyone is so concerned about ME!!!!!

Now I'm gonna have to get a new keyboard 'cause it's got coca cola all in it!!! I actually did laugh out loud enough that an office mate stepped in to see what was so funny. Good one John.

Y'know I used to get all hot and bothered by all of this... in fact enough so one time that I and a group of us actually went way out of our way to go and do something about it.

I guess my position has changed and I find myself in a constant struggle to reconcile my thought with my prior actions, my BASE history, and my convictions. In other words I don't know if I really have any room to talk. And while I agree that dayblazing objects isn't the best idea for any of us, I'd be lying if I said I'd never done it (and even recently).

Likewise, if it weren't for my yahoo-base-newbie-instructor-wannabe mentor Earl (who is/was guilty of exactly the same thing of which you stand accused), I probably wouldn't even be here talking about this. Still further, I might not have been here talking about this if things hadn't gone my way with respect to luck. Long story short: I'm like Ritchie; I did it the other way 'round.

There are so many times when I bite my tongue - not because I don't have anything to say - but because I'm one of those exceptions that wouldn't exist in the BASE world if it weren't for the misguided (guided??) efforts of Mr. Redfern to go against the grain. In other words... in some respects I don't have any grounds to make a case around things like how many skydives one should have before taking up BASE.... or whether someone is 'bad' for having jumped in the daytime... or whether jumping with a surfboard is a good idea or not (I've never jumped with a surfboard, btw - no interest in taking sharp and potentially snagging objects with me in freefall or subjecting groundbound folks to them). There really aren't many rules in BASE - the most heavily enforced rules are the physical laws. Then there is the Call the Locals Rule. Don't jump from the rail at the Perrine. Other than that, it's pretty much a free-for-all as Nick suggested... and there's really not a damned thing any of us can do about it. It's as perennial as the grass that there will always be unprepared newbies wanting to take up the sport. It's as perennial as the grass that the newbie jumper will want to jump everything in sight and jump often and in broad daylight and many times against a more experienced someone's wishes. It's also as perennial as the grass that these folks will mature(hopefully), in time, to become the same jumper that many of us older timers now are: they will see the path and the way and they'll take it, and they'll be amazed (shocked)at themselves when they come to the realization that they were just like that young punk that just hucked a 2k footer in broad daylight for god and everybody to see. Growing pains.

I take solace in the fact that no matter what happens (base being outlawed, objects shut down), the only person standing in the way of me tossing on my rig and climbing up and jumping off of something is myself. That's the ultimate freedom.

Beyond that, I guess someone else here summed it up pretty well: choose carefully the folks that you take with you or that you jump with... it'll be those folks that you have to live/co-exist with if you don't like jumping completely alone (which is cool for those that do). That is not to say that the choices you made are wrong... they just might not have turned out the way you wanted (unintended consequences). Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your position), any single one of us has little control over which yahoo decides to jump xxxxx in broad daylight or goes in on our favorite local object.

Let's all relax. The objects aren't going anywhere, and neither is gravity.

bsbd,
Gardner