Newbie Taking a AFF student BASE jumping!

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

There is a guy in our area that we took on a few BASE jumps, and now he has been taking all kinds of people with him. He took an AFF student with only 5 skydives BASE jumping. The student lost a toggle on deployment and almost hit a guyed wire.

We have tried to talk to the guy about getting a MENTOR and stop trying to be THE MAN and stop taking everybody but he wont listen and we are worried that he is gonna hurt someone or himself.

What do we do.

BASE 708

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[leroydb 0]

Ask him if he has a mentor or thinks he has one.

Offer to be his mentor or prod him to one?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[eb66to77 0]

Hey man good to see ya on again. You have for the last couple of years been the "go to guy" for this area. Up until now everyone wanting to jump the objects around there came to you at the Greatest DZ in the World. Since BASE is self regulated, and you definately have enough going on to keep you busy, this will probably continue until either(1) Someone gets hurt or (2)Someone baby sits the dude until he gets enough experience to take people jumping. I really don't think you should worry too much about it. Just put it out that no one is to BASE with this guy and give them the more obvious alternative to jump with you if you ever get thirty seconds free time. If you want I will help when I get across the big pond for BD. Later on sucker.

[FIREFLYR 0]

Is his (or his friends') death going to burn your objects?
If so... fuck him up!
If not....well Darwin thinks it's cool.
I'm just talking shit cause this thread looks like a troll call.
Seriously WTF ?
~J

"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
"There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act"

[Skinflicka 0]

I agree. Have him killed before someone gets hurt.

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[BASE813 0]

the ease of getting into BASE nowadays is going to increase this sort of thing.

It seems that anyone with 250 skydives and some cash can go and do a FJC. I keep trying to stress that the lack of fundamental knowledge, skill and ethics is lacking in some of the newer jumpers I have seen / spoken to. Now I only have a limited amount of time in BASE (2+ years) but before I did my FJC I had spent 2 years previous learning everything I could, getting the skills I needed and speaking to active jumpers......... at the time I thought this was the norm, it seems not to be.

People are getting hurt left right and center due to poor canopy skills and lack of knowledge (I have heard of many people mis-rigging for slider up jumps) - fundamental knowledge and skills are lacking alot!

I seriously beleive that this is an issue at the moment in BASE that is largely going ignored, with the advent of BASE#1000 I think many people illequiped are jumping a path they are not prepared for........ I hope I am wrong, but I feel a dark time heading towards us........


BASE jumping is not cool, and its not forgiving...........

just my 2 busted bones worth!

[McDuck 0]

I'm in no position to offer advice on this (just had my first BASE jump yesterday), but I will say that as someone who has WANTED to BASE for a long while, I waited until I honestly thought I was ready, and then made sure I went with someone who not only knew what they were doing, but who could make sure I wouldn't screw up and hurt myself or burn that site. I would venture to say that anyone who has the least bit of common sense and/or one iota of intelligence would seek out the experienced, long time BASE jumpers and work with them to make sure BASE jumping doesn't go the way of the Dodo or turn land owners against jumpers in general. I'd be willing to bet at least SOME of these land/tower owners talk, and bad business for them is bad business for BASE jumpers.

I guess for some, humility is over-ridden by less rational emotions and thought processes.

I'll certainly BASE again, but only with people I trust from their experience, knowledge and skill. Otherwise, I'm just tattooing a possible statistic on my caracass.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[TomAiello 25]

It's not just you. We've got the same problem here, but waaaay more so.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>I don't understand the softness of everyones attitude about BASE in this forum. I would think that for most, the seriousness of the activity in which you are about to undertake is driven home standing on the edge. Yes you can die. Do it long enough, and will probably watch someone die. Do it long enough and you will certainly be seriously injured. Is this confusing? What one should ask is: "Is what I get from this worth the costs?" whether you have a 10 jumps or 10,000

[blitzkrieg 0]

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>>I don't understand the softness of everyones attitude about BASE in this forum. I would think that for most, the seriousness of the activity in which you are about to undertake is driven home standing on the edge.
Do it long enough and you will certainly be seriously injured.

so tell me, is what you do worth the risks, and why?
have you ever stood on the edge?
have you ever left the edge?
have you ever stood on the edge without a rig?

if someone is standing next to me and tells me i will CERTAINLY be seriously injured, i'd slap them in their fucking mouth.

there is NOTHING certain about life except death.
the original reason this was posted was to try and eliminate some of the risks among newer jumpers. unless you really know what and who you're talking about, i'd ask you to keep your opinions to yourself.
&thanks for wasting your time reading this.
~E

[TomAiello 25]

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I don't understand the softness of everyones attitude about BASE in this forum.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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the original reason this was posted was to try and eliminate some of the risks among newer jumpers. unless you really know what and who you're talking about, i'd ask you to keep your opinions to yourself.

When a topic is posted in a discussion forum, it is generally accepted that it is there for discussion and opinions from all participants in the forum.

You are welcome to express your opinion--namely that everyone who isn't "in the know" just shut up. Personally, I'm glad that you're not in a position to enforce that opinion here.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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if someone is standing next to me and tells me i will CERTAINLY be seriously injured, i'd slap them in their fucking mouth.

I had a friend pretty much felt the same way. Except that he was quite a bit nicer, and was unlikely to slap anyone. Instead he just ignored a large number of very experienced jumpers who told him that he was certain to be seriously injured. Where did it get him? A nice spot on Nick's list.

When people express concern for your safety, slapping them in the mouth is an inappropriate response.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>Wow I can see you've been a part of this community for a long time.

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if someone is standing next to me and tells me i will CERTAINLY be seriously injured, i'd slap them in their fucking mouth.

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From BASE jumper to special needs in a fraction of a second!

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there is NOTHING certain about life except death.

>>Especially without a rig how profound. My point is simply that in this sport all you can do is stack the deck in your favor. Doesn't mean that card isn't still in there.

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

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Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

>>I suppose in my own crude and inarticulate way I was just trying to say that the consequences of participating in BASE are severe and that coddling new BASEr's can lead to a very traumatic "awakening"

[Zennie 0]

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I suppose in my own crude and inarticulate way I was just trying to say that the consequences of participating in BASE are severe and that coddling new BASEr's can lead to a very traumatic "awakening"

There's a fine line one has to walk when someone new shows up on the scene... especially when you're skeptical that they're cut out for the sport.

If you're too blunt, the person may take a "screw all of you, I'll do it alone" attitude. At the same time, there are those who just shouldn't be in the sport.

In the really severe cases, I'm not sure how you reconcile the two, and I'm not sure there is a right answer other than go with your gut insinct.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[blitzkrieg 0]

if someone was next to me when i was about to jump and said it was a bad idea, i'd reconsider. i suppose i wasn't specific in my response.

all i'm saying is i think it's pretty obvious what the risks are in this sport, well before you start to climb.

furthermore, when i started AFF, no one said to me that i was certainly going to get hurt at some point after i started jumping. skydiving and BASE jumping are inherently dangerous activities. both sports are based on a series of calculated risks. if someone can't accept that, they should not have ever been here in the first place. my point was that this post was started to see what can be done to help reduce some of that calculated risk among new jumpers. not to question the basis of the sport.

i had no intention of making a post on this, but i do know the situation. ncjumpjunkie is someone i know and consider a very good friend, and who is also a very knowledgable jumper. so, i take his post seriously because it effects all of us,especially in our area. so maybe my point is a little clearer. maybe not. i just know that I don't need to be reminded of the dangers other than maybe a case by case scenario. no one knows everything about everthing. that's the thrill of life.

ZegeunerLeben, i understand your point, but i feel it's irrelevent in this thread. my opinion is that a new jumper should have their awakening, traumatic or not, long before they step off of a fixed object.

tom, i know i'm not a moderator, no disrespect intended. but at first glance, that did not seem to be a concern for my safety, more like a disciplinary warning. what is "long enough"?

i'll leave it at that for now...
~E

[McDuck 0]

I saw where you were coming from, E. In skydiving, we would not only go into a collective apoplectic fit if someone with low jump numbers found some magical way around the current training and license programs and managed to take someone new up for a skydive, we would all agree that it's insane. Your point was that we all know the risks involved in the sport/s we have chosen, but that there needs to be a way to help reduce potential problems associated with extremely less experienced jumpers taking brand-new jumpers up for their first BASE jumps. I will say, however, that as a brand-spanking new neophyte to BASE, I personally would only seek out the best and most experienced BASE jumpers to get me started, the ones who not only have been doing it for quite a while, but also come highly recommended by their peers. But I'm silly like that.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[base570 1]

Quote

There is a guy in our area that we took on a few BASE jumps, and now he has been taking all kinds of people with him. He took an AFF student with only 5 skydives BASE jumping. The student lost a toggle on deployment and almost hit a guyed wire.

We have tried to talk to the guy about getting a MENTOR and stop trying to be THE MAN and stop taking everybody but he wont listen and we are worried that he is gonna hurt someone or himself.

What do we do.

BASE 708

It's kind of ironic your writing this isn't it John????

We thought the same thing about you when you blazed onto the scene. Not wanting to listen to more experienced jumpers, jumping well established sites in the day with no concern for other jumpers that worked hard in opening up the sites, taking people who should not be BASE jumping yet, jumping sites outside of your experience level, "teaching" when you had few jumps and little knowledge of the sport, etc. We tried to talk to you on more than one occasion about your antics but you readily blew us off just like your 'student' has done to you. I guess not being selective in who YOU take on a jump is coming back to bite you.

It sucks doesn't it??????

My suggestion, which is probably worthless in your opinion, is to talk to him again and make it clear about what your upset about and how he can and will hurt someone if he continues his ways. Explain about the potential lawsuits he faces when someone under his 'supervision' goes in, maybe that will control his ego a little. Talk to him don't scold him, that will only make him put up his defences and then your fighting a losing battle. Ask him why he feels the need to 'teach' when he doesn't fully grasp the sport and the dangers. What is he looking to get out of it??? Ego stroking?
Also it might help if you are more selective in who you decide to 'teach'.

just my .02
Good luck it's a tough battle.

570

[riggersam 0]

I don't know this guy, but I agree that it is interesting that we have yet to see one reply from him in the several days that the thread has been on this forum.

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What do we do[?]

BASE 708

NCJumpJunkie,
After reading these replies, what do YOU plan to do?

[McDuck 0]

I'm not trying to instigate anything or delve too deeply into things I'm not entirely privy to, but I wanted to make two points, at least.
1. As far as I'm aware, John did not "teach" this jumper with regards to BASE. If he did, and I am mistaken, my apologies. His concern is that this jumper, who is a regular at our DZ, seems to not be taking instruction and guidance from the more experienced BASE jumpers and is taking even less experienced student skydivers out for their first BASE jumps. I'm aware that you gave some examples of how to approach this, and with the exception of the seemingly snide remark about being more selective in who John decides to "teach", your reasoning SOUNDS good. As you seem to be aware of, talking to someone and having them take your words to heart are two entirely different beasts.

2. I'm guessing that a less antagonistic approach to answering John's question might be met with less resentment than I'm feeling right now. John is a good man, a great instructor and a wonderful DZO. I would venture to say that no regular jumpers at our DZ have the least bit of trouble with him. He has gone out of his way to make us all feel welcome and appreciated at our DZ, and takes great pains to ensure we all do our best to be safe in this sport. Since his original post was not an attack on you, or the jumper in question, your approach seems to reflect an unreasonable amount of animosity.
I consider John to be a good friend, and as any good friend will tell you, an attack on him is an attack on everyone who calls him friend. I hope you found some lingering sense of peace in writing that response. I truly do.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[Treejumps 0]

Quote: "I hope you found some lingering sense of peace in writing that response. I truly do. "

And the same for you. Unless you huck, it is no concern of yours. You have no idea what it takes to open and maintain sites. Once they are gone, they are gone. If your pal was putting people off that he shouldn't, then 570 has every right to say what he has. If the trash is overflowing at the DZ or manifest is not nice nice with you, well then you have a legitiment gripe.

Stick with what is relevant.

Cya.

[BASE813 0]

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Unless you huck, it is no concern of yours.

aint that the truth......


www.blincmagazine.com

[TomAiello 25]

Actually, I think this thread is extremely relevant to the purpose of this forum.

Look what it's about: New jumpers and skydivers who want to get into BASE, and how they do it.

Personally, I think this is a discussion that really ought to be held with skydivers, as _they_ are the target audience.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[BASE813 0]

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Look what it's about: New jumpers and skydivers who want to get into BASE, and how they do it

so it is either this or its not................


re-read the threads.........